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2023-24 Detroit Tigers Offseason Thread


chasfh

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Last year, Greene and Carp both missed time for injuries. Baez missed time. Some guys underperformed and had to be shuffled around. That caused a lot of situations where guys had to play out of position. Hopefully this year they can stay healthy and reach their potential.

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57 minutes ago, casimir said:

Is that possible?  Are pitchers being developed to handle the workload needed, whether they are SP or RP?  It seems like velocity has taken over too much and stamina takes a back seat to it.  But I guess my point/question is, if that's how pitchers are handled in the amateurs/minors, how can we expect it be different in the majors?

Deaden the baseball!

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11 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Deaden the baseball!

Preach.  Stop worrying about uglifying the next batch of spring training hats and get to work on recalibrating the baseball to where home runs and pitching injuries are reduced.

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59 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

None the less, you can platoon bats, which is normally the greater need, without bouncing guys around positionally as much as the Tigers have.

Do you honestly believe Vierling should have gotten the majority of starts at third last year?

Edited by chasfh
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The Tigers started nine different players at third base last year.

I did a little Excel thing and found that these are all the teams since 1956, the earliest season Fangraphs has data for, that started nine or more guys at third base:

Team 3B Starters
2022 CIN 11
1958 CLE 11
2022 SFG 10
2022 LAA 10
2013 NYY 10
1959 CLE 10
1956 BAL 10
2023 DET 9
2022 MIA 9
2022 ARI 9
2021 PIT 9
2021 CIN 9
2018 NYM 9
2017 SFG 9
2015 ATL 9
2014 ARI 9
2006 LAD 9
2003 TBD 9
1997 CIN 9
1969 CLE 9

That's 20 out of 1,766 teams, or a little more than one percent. Eight of those twenty teams have done so since 2021 alone.

Starting more guys at third base is a bona fide trend. This chart shows the average number of starting third baseman per team by season since 1956:

image.png.51e24d84d9a8add8f0ce2b8e195e9ded.png

Fun fact: Only fourteen teams started only one guy at third the entire year. The 1995 Tigers were one of them. Without looking it up, do you remember who?

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32 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Do you honestly believe Vierling should have gotten the majority of starts at third last year?

He'd spent almost 2,000 minor league innings in OF and 79 at 3B.  In 2022 with the Phillies, it was 756 & 42.  It would have been something that needed to start in spring training.

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31 minutes ago, chasfh said:

The Tigers started nine different players at third base last year.

I did a little Excel thing and found that these are all the teams since 1956, the earliest season Fangraphs has data for, that started nine or more guys at third base:

Team 3B Starters
2022 CIN 11
1958 CLE 11
2022 SFG 10
2022 LAA 10
2013 NYY 10
1959 CLE 10
1956 BAL 10
2023 DET 9
2022 MIA 9
2022 ARI 9
2021 PIT 9
2021 CIN 9
2018 NYM 9
2017 SFG 9
2015 ATL 9
2014 ARI 9
2006 LAD 9
2003 TBD 9
1997 CIN 9
1969 CLE 9

That's 20 out of 1,766 teams, or a little more than one percent. Eight of those twenty teams have done so since 2021 alone.

Starting more guys at third base is a bona fide trend. This chart shows the average number of starting third baseman per team by season since 1956:

image.png.51e24d84d9a8add8f0ce2b8e195e9ded.png

Fun fact: Only fourteen teams started only one guy at third the entire year. The 1995 Tigers were one of them. Without looking it up, do you remember who?

Good stuff. I'm curious how the trend looks if you throw out shortened seasons (1981, 1994, 1995, 2020).

I'll also hypothesize this chart is more severe for left field, which has become an odd rover position.

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2 hours ago, chasfh said:

Given baby-naming trends a couple of decades ago, probably half the organizations have both a Colten and a Kolten by now, or will soon. 😉

AND a...

KolTON.

Just an FYI to everyone... I know there's a KoltEn Wong floating around somewhere...

But the guy we signed is actually named KoltOn Ingram.

You know... FYI.

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11 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Good stuff. I'm curious how the trend looks if you throw out shortened seasons (1981, 1994, 1995, 2020).

I'll also hypothesize this chart is more severe for left field, which has become an odd rover position.

LF.thumb.png.efc7d21fcffa46dd00e8e09088b3242b.png

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18 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Good stuff. I'm curious how the trend looks if you throw out shortened seasons (1981, 1994, 1995, 2020).

I'll also hypothesize this chart is more severe for left field, which has become an odd rover position.

I think if I were to just remove the shortened season, it would be simply a smoothed line running between the two adjacent seasons.

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One more post on this topic, if you can stand it ...

Here are the most starting players by position for any team since 1956:

  • C : 8 (2011 PIT, 1998 NYM, 1960 CHC)
  • 1B: 12 (2023 LAA, 2022 OAK)
  • 2B: 10 (2022 PIT, 2016 SDP)
  • SS: 9 (1987 PIT)
  • 3B: 11 (2022 CIN, 1958 CLE)
  • LF: 15! (2002 CLE)
  • CF: 11 (2012 BOS, 2007 OAK)
  • RF: 14 (2016 SDP)

Not only did none of these teams make the playoffs, only two of them finished above .500, and one of those by just a single game.

Let the chicken/egg debate commence forthwith!

 

(EDIT: Interesting—when you run a capital C and a colon together and post on this forum, it turns into a smiley face, and you can't stop that!)

Edited by chasfh
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1 minute ago, Toddwert said:

over/under 5 the number Tigers 3rd baseman this season

Seeing how five is below the big league average for starting third basemen and we do not have an established third baseman signed, at least as of yet, I'm going to say over.

The more interesting over/under might be, by which date will the Tigers have started their fifth guy at third base? I'm going to say May 1.

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3 hours ago, casimir said:

I think Malloy is more handicapped by his glove rather than where it is positioned.  Or maybe its his arm. 

Actually I've read the arm isn't bad, which is why they were hoping he might manage 3B. It's all the parts that come before the throw.

Edited by gehringer_2
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