Tenacious D Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 5 minutes ago, GoBlue23 said: According to Spotrac, the league average for team payroll is 147 million for 2024. The Tigers are currently sitting at 92 million. Ownership either needs to be willing to spend money or they need to sell the team. I'm not saying I expect the Tigers to be top 5 in payroll as they were when Mike was chasing a World Series ring, but we should certainly be able to be somewhere in the 10-15 range. <yawn> 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) 10 minutes ago, GoBlue23 said: According to Spotrac, the league average for team payroll is 147 million for 2024. The Tigers are currently sitting at 92 million. Ownership either needs to be willing to spend money or they need to sell the team. I'm not saying I expect the Tigers to be top 5 in payroll as they were when Mike was chasing a World Series ring, but we should certainly be able to be somewhere in the 10-15 range. I'm not sure now is the time that is the test for how much the team is willing to spend - the test comes if the young core start having success and the team either has to pay to tie them up or face letting them walk. You can argue they shouldn't be committing much in the way of long term dollars on FA (ie.typical older) players when they have large payroll liabilities looming before FA contracts proffered today would be off the books. Edited February 22 by gehringer_2 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 So who gets the ziggy to allow Urshela on board? Lipcius? Hopkins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 19 minutes ago, GoBlue23 said: According to Spotrac, the league average for team payroll is 147 million for 2024. The Tigers are currently sitting at 92 million. Ownership either needs to be willing to spend money or they need to sell the team. I'm not saying I expect the Tigers to be top 5 in payroll as they were when Mike was chasing a World Series ring, but we should certainly be able to be somewhere in the 10-15 range. It's not time to spend big yet. It will be when it makes the difference between close to the playoffs and definitely making the playoffs; or else, between squeaking into the playoffs and going deep into the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Who should they have signed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 11 minutes ago, oblong said: Who should they have signed? Careful, people will get mad if you ask that ... 🙃 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 11 minutes ago, GoBlue23 said: Make the playoffs and anything can happen. Tigers already have a good shot at taking this divison, their odds would be greatly increased by picking up one or two quality players. I don't think they believe are close enough to throw bunches of years and nine figures at players. I am totally cool with their approach just as it is. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveMaroth Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 14 minutes ago, oblong said: Who should they have signed? Ohtani and Yamamoto obviously /s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveMaroth Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, Edman85 said: I've got the "bench+3B" as Kelly, Vierling, McKinstry, Ibanez, Urshela. Some of the RHB will spell Meadows, Keith, Carpenter, Greene. One man's MLB/AAA position players. I just bumped Jung down to Erie, but do think he's in Toledo eventually. I suspect Hopkins is the 40 man move. Good call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 40 minutes ago, GoBlue23 said: According to Spotrac, the league average for team payroll is 147 million for 2024. The Tigers are currently sitting at 92 million. Ownership either needs to be willing to spend money or they need to sell the team. I'm not saying I expect the Tigers to be top 5 in payroll as they were when Mike was chasing a World Series ring, but we should certainly be able to be somewhere in the 10-15 range. Spend on what? Were we ever in on Ohtani? Let me help you. NO. Yamamoto? NO Sonny Gray is 34 and the Cardinals will regret the deal. I am so thankful the Tigers didn't do anything like that. Cody Bellinger? Where would we play him? How many years does he want? Aaron Nola re-signed with Philly right away. Blake Snell? Probably wants too much money for too long. Matt Chapman? This year's Rich Aurilia. Who were we supposed to spend so much money on? Can't just spend money to spend money. Need to have a reason backing it. I'd rather have them focus on drafting and developing at this point. Hopefully this young talent continues to improve and we can fatten our payroll with our own guys. That's the goal, build from within. The Rangers broke a trend of spending to win a Series, but it hasn't been like that lately. For all the money the Dodgers spend they still only have one ring, from a year that barely counts. The Mets spend like crazy. Did it help them? I don't undestand the Gio signing unless this team just believes Vierling/McKinstry/Ibanez was going to be a defensive disaster. I mean, it's 1.5 million, so no big deal. I thought this year was all about evaluation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: I don't undestand the Gio signing unless this team just believes Vierling/McKinstry/Ibanez was going to be a defensive disaster. I mean, it's 1.5 million, so no big deal. I thought this year was all about evaluation. Last year was more about evaluation than this year IMO.... 2023 was literally an open tryout at multiple spots. This year's roster (plus signing Urshela) shows a much more stable group coming into 2024. That's the takeaway I have, I don't know that Urshela means much about Vierling/McKinstry/Ibanez more than it does about the likelihood of breaking camp with a relatively stable group of guys and not having to rely so much on AAAA/unproven types to fill out the back end of the roster (assuming JHM is out of the picture due to his defensive limitations) Edited February 22 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: unless this team just believes Vierling/McKinstry/Ibanez was going to be a defensive disaster. I think this is certainly a possibility. IMO McKinstry was not good there, tho maybe he's better with a better knee, Ibanez I don't think has the arm, I thought Vierling had looked decent there but maybe they don't agree. If whoever is there is just a place-holder for Jung at the ASB, then you might as well play a real 3B whose cost you don't mind and who you might even move at the deadline if he does hit some. Edited February 22 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzer1 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, GoBlue23 said: According to Spotrac, the league average for team payroll is 147 million for 2024. The Tigers are currently sitting at 92 million. Ownership either needs to be willing to spend money or they need to sell the team. I'm not saying I expect the Tigers to be top 5 in payroll as they were when Mike was chasing a World Series ring, but we should certainly be able to be somewhere in the 10-15 range. That's kind of stupid. The finances of baseball has changed, money is much tighter due to the cord cutters, which is changing how much income teams get from TV. The NFL rolls along, since they can still demand top dollar, but baseball is an apples-to-oranges comparison to them, since they cannot demand. Teams are going to have to behave like their market size, and be smart about their spending. I think Harris has been very smart, especially with the Colt Keith signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Another solid and opportunistic move by Harris. Very happy he is concerned about the defense. Gio is a solid defender and Verling can move the f back to the outfield where he excels. Double win. JHM will open in AAA to focus on defense as well and Jung will play third in AAA all season. McStinky on the bubble. And if the pelvis injury has ruined Gio it's only 1.5 lost. The Yankee-Blue Jays-Angels and Twins fans are all bemoaning not signing him online. Defense wins games and can not be ignored. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Fangraphs has the payroll at $108 million. https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/payroll/tigers I was skeptical of Harris going into the offseason but I really like what they have done to improve the roster. I think Edman's 26 man is correct and Baddoo is back in Toledo with McKinstry, Ibanez and Vierling on the bench. If the kids are really tearing up Toledo then Urshela and Canha are trade bait. I don't blame them for not signing any overpriced free agents. It was a really poor quality group who wanted big money because they were the "best" available. No need to overpay when there are legitimate prospects in the system. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) '22 WS was salary #4 vs #8, '23 WS was #4 vs #21. Mets and the Yankees spent a combined $600M to both miss the playoffs last season. Spending done well certainly improves your odds, but spending per se is no guarantee of anything. Edited February 22 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzer1 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 20 minutes ago, GoBlue23 said: The Tigers are ranked 14th in market size, having a payroll between 10-15 isn't a stretch. Additionally, we already have the evidence that the fans will fill the stadium if the Tigers are in the mix for the post-season. https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/nba-market-size-nfl-mlb-nhl-nielsen-ratings/ Would also be nice if you would refrain from calling opinions you don't agree with stupid. You are right, I apologize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 So the Tigers just decided to bank the money that came off the books when Cabrera retired? I remember posters on MTS talking about all the quality players we would be able to afford with that money. I figured they would just save it. But yeah, I can see the point, there wasn't any good players to spend $30 million a year on. <ducks> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 2 minutes ago, Cruzer1 said: You are right, I apologize. It’s correct, stupid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAbbott Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Spending doesn't guarantee anything. This year's free agent class wasn't anything to get excited about. So many free agents that are out there represent a five to 7 year commitment for 2 years production, if the team is lucky. That is a recipe that will hamstring a team. Chapman, Yamamoto, and Ohtani do not excite me, nor does Jack Flarhety for that matter. What I am looking for are solid contributors that don't effectively hamstring a team. I am tired of seeing the Jordan Zimmerman types waft through Detroit, having all the usefulness of teats on a gelded boar hog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 18 minutes ago, Tigermojo said: I don't blame them for not signing any overpriced free agents. It was a really poor quality group who wanted big money because they were the "best" available. No need to overpay when there are legitimate prospects in the system. Fully agree here - I think they did what they could with the free agent class they had this offseason. Only possible gripe there is maybe you could have considered dedicating money and years to Matt Chapman, but even there, it's not without risk. I suspect the fact that he's still unsigned at this point reflects some risk that teams see in giving out a longer deal to a guy on the wrong side of 30. I'll never understand the idea that not matching Miggy's contract value dollar for dollar is automatically a failure. At the end of the day, the goal isn't to meet a quota of money spent, it's to spend money to improve the ballclub. Which, by any objective measure, they did this offseason. Full stop, particularly given the state of the hitting market. I would like to see them spend money money in the future, and I expect they will (particularly with younger talent that will eventually need to be resigned if they continue to grow). But the total amount matters less than just improving the ballclub in the areas it needs it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, LongLiveMaroth said: Ohtani and Yamamoto obviously /s I was hoping they would make a serious run at Yamamoto. I am not sure if they did or not, but he was really expensive for an unknown. I hope they will have a bigger payroll next year, but I am fine with where they are at right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) 18 minutes ago, mtutiger said: I suspect the fact that he's still unsigned at this point reflects some risk that teams see in giving out a longer deal to a guy on the wrong side of 30. Boras is playing a long game on his big 4 this year and I guess I don't blame any mid-market team for not wanting to get into the middle of it just to be a stalking horse adding to the ultimate cost for the high $$ team that will eventually outbid them. I don't know how much I'd like being a Boras client knowing I might be a guy that gets sacrificed even if he succeeds in driving up net salaries for his clients collectively. I sometimes wonder if the Boras agency makes guarantees to players to keep them on-board and actually pays off and we never hear about it when one of his clients ends up out in the cold. Edited February 22 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said: So the Tigers just decided to bank the money that came off the books when Cabrera retired? I remember posters on MTS talking about all the quality players we would be able to afford with that money. I figured they would just save it. But yeah, I can see the point, there wasn't any good players to spend $30 million a year on. <ducks> I was interested in spending big money on Yamamoto and Hader... But they actually have to be interested in signing with the Tigers. It takes two to tango. And if they weren't really interested in the Tigers... and maybe Harris was not interested in THEM...? Then... I am perfectly fine with all the Plan B guys that he picked up this offseason. I think Harris has been pretty close to perfect in finding guys that weren't stupid overspends, filled needs, have above-average capabilities... and have positioned this team to make a run at the playoffs. There will be future opportunities to spend big money on big-time players. Including... Our own. Edited February 22 by 1984Echoes 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 54 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: I was interested in spending big money on Yamamoto and Hader... But they actually have to be interested in signing with the Tigers. It takes two to tango. And if they weren't really interested in the Tigers... and maybe Harris was not interested in THEM...? Then... I am perfectly fine with all the Plan B guys that he picked up this offseason. I think Harris has been pretty close to perfect in finding guys that weren't stupid overspends, filled needs, have above-average capabilities... and have positioned this team to make a run at the playoffs. There will be future opportunities to spend big money on big-time players. Including... Our own. Yeah, I want extended success. Most teams can't buy success, you need to develop it. Playing .500 ball shouldn't be the goal. The Tigers had a very good record within our division. It was our record against the East that cost us the division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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