2023-24 Detroit Tigers Offseason Thread

[chasfh]

14 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

The Tigers didn't offer 8 million.  They offered 290 million. That sounds serious to me.  

It turned out he wasn't worth 330 million.  So, maybe Avila was the smart one.  

They might have well have offered one year for eight million, because that had as much chance of being accepted as 10/275 was, which was zero. And an offer that everyone knows will not be accepted by the other side is not a serious offer.

[Jim Cowan]

That $350 million from the Giants was a farce.  As if Correa, of all people, could play another 13 years.  

[Tiger337]

24 minutes ago, chasfh said:

They might have well have offered one year for eight million, because that had as much chance of being accepted as 10/275 was, which was zero. And an offer that everyone knows will not be accepted by the other side is not a serious offer.

I think Echoes just showed that it was a competitive offer.  

[chasfh]

10 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I think Echoes just showed that it was a competitive offer.  

The Tigers offer was 55 million lower than Correa's stated goal of 330, and 75 million lower than Giants offer of 350 he accepted. So, not so competitive.

[chasfh]

46 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

How about we try some facts:

What did the Tigers offer Correa? 10 years $275 mill = $27.5MM AAV (For some reason I thought it was $295 mill but I was wrong...)

What did the Twins offer Correa? 10 years $285 mill = $28.5MM AAV

What did the Giants offer Correa? 13 years $350 mill = $26.9MM AAV

What did the Mets offer Correa? 12 years $315 mill = $26.25MM AAV

What is chasf calling the Tigers Offer? Not Serious.

 

Come again?

What did the Astros offer Correa? 5 years $160 mill = $32.0MM AAV.

By your yardstick, that was the most serious offer by a mile and a half.

[Tiger337]

32 minutes ago, chasfh said:

What did the Astros offer Correa? 5 years $160 mill = $32.0MM AAV.

By your yardstick, that was the most serious offer by a mile and a half.

330 million suggests a desire for a lifetime deal.  Five years is a lot different from 10 years.  I am assuming he wasn't expecting 66 million per year.  

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, Jim Cowan said:

That $350 million from the Giants was a farce.  As if Correa, of all people, could play another 13 years.  

Yeah, it was ridiculous all right, but they made the offer in all seriousness, and Correa accepted it, so it looks like the Giants dodged a bullet on that one.

[chasfh]

3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

330 million suggests a desire for a lifetime deal.  Five years is a lot different from 10 years.  I am assuming he wasn't expecting 66 million per year.  

Sure it is, but the AAV was the yardstick being used in the post you pointed to. If that's the measure of competitiveness or seriousness we're going to use, then the Astros' offer was more competitive and serious than the four offers originally listed.

Edited November 20, 2023 by chasfh

[Tiger337]

7 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Sure it is, but the AAV was the yardstick being used in the post you pointed to. If that's the measure of competitiveness or seriousness we're going to use, then the Astros' offer was more competitive and serious than the four offers originally listed.

The aav was competitive and the contract length was competitive. 

 

[Tiger337]

53 minutes ago, chasfh said:

The Tigers offer was 55 million lower than Correa's stated goal of 330, and 75 million lower than Giants offer of 350 he accepted. So, not so competitive.

It is interesting that Scott Harris was with the Giants at the time but I am not sure what his role was.  

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

What did the Astros offer Correa? 5 years $160 mill = $32.0MM AAV.

By your yardstick, that was the most serious offer by a mile and a half.

That does NOT make those other offers not-serious.

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

What did the Astros offer Correa? 5 years $160 mill = $32.0MM AAV.

By your yardstick, that was the most serious offer by a mile and a half.

PS: One other point:

The Astros offer was PRIOR to free agency. One week.

Why are you comparing this offer to free agency offers?

He had already turned that offer DOWN when the other offers came in. You're trying to resurrect that offer, just so you can compare it to his FA offers in order to make a point? 

He wanted length. Twins and Tigers were willing to go 10 years. With serious offers that offered a higher AAV than the Mets or Giants offers. He opted for longer term and lower AAV. Oh... by the way, the Astros offer ALSO fits this definition. Lower years, higher AAV, so he turned them down and went with the longest term he could get his hands on. They were all serious offers.

You seem, curiously, stuck in a position here... Is there some kind of ax you are trying to grind here? Against Avila maybe...? I get the dislike, but your position is not based on logic. It appears to be based on emotion.

[Edman85]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

It is interesting that Scott Harris was with the Giants at the time but I am not sure what his role was.  

He's already been hired by the Tigers at that point. His whole time at the Giants he was GM, but Zaidi led baseball ops.

[RatkoVarda]

Inter webs are saying Nola’s 7/172 was a little light; the dollars are no big deal but the years are the key; 6-10 years is the length the top of the market will get; Harris will need to offer a lot of years to land an impact player 

[gehringer_2]

McCoskey column with a little more on the relationship breakdown with Turnbull. Apparently he had hidden the neck injury trying to gut it it out till he reached his service time goal.

Quote

The meeting with Tigers president Scott Harris and manager AJ Hinch the previous night went poorly. His ERA was north of 7 and he was struggling with both velocity and command. He knew he wasn’t right physically and hadn’t been since he whiplashed himself out of the way of a line drive in his start in Boston on May 6.

But, on the advice of his agent at the time, he tried to pitch through it. He didn’t tell the Tigers about the neck pain that was limiting his range of motion and the fluidity of his delivery. He would admit later that not speaking up was a mistake.

At issue was service time. Turnbull was nearing five years of service time. A couple of more times through the rotation and he would have had it. Not only would that have brought him a year closer to free agency (after the 2024 season), he could block any demotion to Triple A.

When he was summoned to Hinch’s hotel room on May 6 and told he was being optioned, Turnbull was initially stunned. He went back to his room, but less than a half hour later he called Harris directly and told him, finally, about his neck.

Harris, naturally, wanted some medical proof. Over the next six days, Turnbull changed agents, hiring the Scott Boras Agency, and underwent a battery of tests. Those tests showed conclusive damage to the neck and on May 12 the option was rescinded and Turnbull was placed on the injured list.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2023/11/18/mccosky-inside-the-spencer-turnbull-saga/71634423007/

Edited November 20, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Edman85]

10 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

McCoskey column with a little more on the relationship breakdown with Turnbull. Apparently he had hidden the neck injury trying to gut it it out till he reached his service time goal.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2023/11/18/mccosky-inside-the-spencer-turnbull-saga/71634423007/

Turnbull wasn't on pace to hit 5 years until August. The timeline doesn't jibe.

Anything roster rules/service time related from McCosky deserves skepticism. He is wrong more often than not.

[gehringer_2]

26 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Turnbull wasn't on pace to hit 5 years until August. The timeline doesn't jibe.

Anything roster rules/service time related from McCosky deserves skepticism. He is wrong more often than not.

Good point! The general idea of trying to play through the injury sounds like it could be the case though - Turnbull certainly wasn't right.

[casimir]

Take Lance Lynn off of your break in case of emergency free agent desperation lists.  Or your wish list if you had him there.

[Tigermojo]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/11/orix-buffaloes-expected-to-post-yoshinobu-yamamoto-on-november-20.html

"November 20: As expected, Yamamoto has been officially posted, as relayed by Joel Sherman of The New York Post. The posting window begins a 7 am Central on November 21 and goes until 4 pm Central on January 4."

[SoCalTiger]

44 minutes ago, Tigermojo said:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/11/orix-buffaloes-expected-to-post-yoshinobu-yamamoto-on-november-20.html

"November 20: As expected, Yamamoto has been officially posted, as relayed by Joel Sherman of The New York Post. The posting window begins a 7 am Central on November 21 and goes until 4 pm Central on January 4."

I hope Mr. Harris is in Japan to knock on his door at 10 pm Tokyo time. 

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

Take Lance Lynn off of your break in case of emergency free agent desperation lists.  Or your wish list if you had him there.

Apparently, the Tigers viewed him as more than a desperation choice:

 

[1776]

“The Tigers are looking closely at the FA starting pitching market and checked in on Lance Lynn before he signed with the Cardinals.”

A little front office fan bait.  

[RatkoVarda]

lots of unnecessary drama avoided

 

[Toddwert]

39 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

lots of unnecessary drama avoided

 

Enjoy your parting gift BYE!

[chasfh]

20 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

That does NOT make those other offers not-serious.

If there's no chance the other side is going to accept the offer—and you must know that Correa was never going to accept an offer from the very first team making one that lowballed his publicized target by $55 million—then it can't be a serious offer. I don't know how much simpler it can be.