2023-24 Detroit Tigers Offseason Thread

[Tiger337]

  On 12/13/2023 at 3:45 PM, chasfh said:

Tigers are listed in this article about good fits for ten teams that need starting pitching, and that's definitely progress, because that means they're taking us more seriously now. We would not be in last year's version of this article.

The best fits for 10 teams that are hungry for pitching - MLB.com

 

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I am not sure that a writer seeing the Tigers as a good fit for a pitcher with a 5.27 FIP is progress.  😀

[chasfh]

We've been talking about how this has become an organization of pitcher whisperers since Harris took over, but if they can make this happen somehow, it will go a long way toward proving it.

 

[1984Echoes]

  On 12/13/2023 at 4:26 PM, Tiger337 said:

I am not sure that a writer seeing the Tigers as a good fit for a pitcher with a 5.27 FIP is progress.  😀

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I really don't like that delivery, either.

I'd prefer Imanaga.

[mtutiger]

  On 12/13/2023 at 2:48 PM, Tiger337 said:

The risk of having a high payroll is not the fan's problem.  

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Looking at what's going on in San Diego this offseason for instance, clearly the reality is a little more complicated.

[Jim Cowan]

  On 12/13/2023 at 4:29 PM, chasfh said:

We've been talking about how this has become an organization of pitcher whisperers since Harris took over, but if they can make this happen somehow, it will go a long way toward proving it.

 

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Scott Harris:  "Also, he's lefthanded and has a pulse".  The hubris demonstrated in his comments is not something that I welcome, it reminds me of the Twins 20 years ago.  They signed "third baseman" Eric Munson and his hands of stone, and Terry Ryan said "once Gardy and his staff have a chance to work with him he'll be fine".  He wasn't fine.

[Tiger337]

  On 12/13/2023 at 5:01 PM, mtutiger said:

Looking at what's going on in San Diego this offseason for instance, clearly the reality is a little more complicated.

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which I explained in the rest of my post.  

[RatkoVarda]

Giolito is projected to be one of the more expense fixer upper guys.

would prefer to pay more $$$ for more talent, or less $$$ for a Lorenzen type.

but again, have to trust that they see something they like in whoever they sign

[chasfh]

  On 12/13/2023 at 5:02 PM, Jim Cowan said:

Scott Harris:  "Also, he's lefthanded and has a pulse".  The hubris demonstrated in his comments is not something that I welcome, it reminds me of the Twins 20 years ago.  They signed "third baseman" Eric Munson and his hands of stone, and Terry Ryan said "once Gardy and his staff have a chance to work with him he'll be fine".  He wasn't fine.

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I don't see where Harris suggests this, and Harris wasn't the one who signed Munson or worked with Gardy, but you're certainly free to oppose the deal and hubris in general. In fact, I think you might have hit on a pet name for the Tigers PBO! 😁

[mtutiger]

  On 12/13/2023 at 5:06 PM, Tiger337 said:

which I explained in the rest of my post.  

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If I were a fan of the San Diego Padres at the moment and my team was forced to slash payroll because they have cash flow issues, I would consider that a problem and would expect that to impact my enjoyment of the team in the immediate near term. Whether I'm hoping for it or not seems like an irrelevant point.

[Tiger337]

  On 12/13/2023 at 5:12 PM, mtutiger said:

If I were a fan of the San Diego Padres at the moment and my team was forced to slash payroll because they have cash flow issues, I would consider that a problem and would expect that to impact my enjoyment of the team in the immediate near term. Whether I'm hoping for it or not seems like an irrelevant point.

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Yes, I'd rather they not cut payroll if I were a fan.  I never root for my team to cut payroll.  

[casimir]

  On 12/13/2023 at 5:12 PM, mtutiger said:

If I were a fan of the San Diego Padres at the moment and my team was forced to slash payroll because they have cash flow issues, I would consider that a problem and would expect that to impact my enjoyment of the team in the immediate near term. Whether I'm hoping for it or not seems like an irrelevant point.

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Its kind of hard to feel sorry for San Diego.

[mtutiger]

  On 12/13/2023 at 5:34 PM, Tiger337 said:

Yes, I'd rather they not cut payroll if I were a fan.  I never root for my team to cut payroll.  

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One way to accomplish this is to ensure you don't make decisions that subsequently lead to expenses exceeding revenues. 

I know I'm a fan and I'm not supposed to care about any of that, but at least in how I approach being a fan of the Detroit Tigers, I'm not going to feign ignorance to the reality that running a major league club is a business and healthy businesses in any industry generally try to avoid making stupid investments or spend money without their being an ultimate purpose.

Edited December 13, 2023 by mtutiger

[oblong]

  On 12/13/2023 at 7:48 PM, casimir said:

Its kind of hard to feel sorry for San Diego.

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That's the weather in July too.

I tell you, Pacific Beach where we went was probably the perfect place for me. I loved it.   

[mtutiger]

  On 12/13/2023 at 7:48 PM, casimir said:

Its kind of hard to feel sorry for San Diego.

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Fair point, really lovely part of the world!

[Tiger337]

  On 12/13/2023 at 7:55 PM, mtutiger said:

One way to accomplish this is to ensure you don't make decisions that subsequently lead to expenses exceeding revenues. 

I know I'm a fan and I'm not supposed to care about any of that, but at least in how I approach being a fan of the Detroit Tigers, I'm not going to feign ignorance to the reality that running a major league club is a business and healthy businesses in any industry generally try to avoid making stupid investments or spend money without their being an ultimate purpose.

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I trust that the team knows what they are doing with their budget a lot more than I do.  If they have a high payroll, I assume that means they are going to maintain the high payroll in the future.  If they sign Yamamoto (and I know there is little chance of that happening),  I would assume that means they are going to be a high budget team which would be a good thing.  I wouldn't assume that Harris was an idiot who made a stupid signing which is going to damage their future.  Even if they sign a couple of Lorenzon level players to shorter contracts, I would take that as a sign that their budget is not tight.  Again, I would view that as a positive.  

[mtutiger]

  On 12/13/2023 at 8:13 PM, Tiger337 said:

I trust that the team knows what they are doing with their budget a lot more than I do.  If they have a high payroll, I assume that means they are going to maintain the high payroll in the future.  If they sign Yamamoto (and I know there is little chance of that happening),  I would assume that means they are going to be a high budget team which would be a good thing.  I wouldn't assume that Harris was an idiot who made a stupid signing which is going to damage their future.  Even if they sign a couple of Lorenzon level players to shorter contracts, I would take that as a sign that their budget is not tight.  Again, I would view that as a positive.  

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If they sign Yamamoto, great.... I haven't said that they shouldn't.

But going back to my original point:

  Quote

Put another way, I don't really care whether the quantitative sum adds up to what the team lost in payroll when Miggy retired or when ERod opted out, just want the moves to make sense in the context of what they are trying to accomplish (something along the lines of taking a baseline 80 win team and making moves to help them win their division this year)

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Many fans seem to approach their payroll with the view that this team having a payroll lower than 2023 would be a failure.... personally, I don't care whether the payroll is or isn't lower. If they managed to land Yamamoto or Imanaga or someone else at the higher end of the market on a longer term pricier deal, great, fine by me. If they can't accomplish that but go the more Lorenzen-esque route, that's fine too.

Either way, I just want them to make moves that make sense within the context of what they are trying to accomplish in 2024 and beyond. The dollar signs are irrelevant to me.

Edited December 13, 2023 by mtutiger

[Tiger337]

  On 12/13/2023 at 8:20 PM, mtutiger said:

If they sign Yamamoto, great.... I haven't said that they shouldn't.

But going back to my original point:

Many fans seem to approach their payroll with the view that this team having a payroll lower than 2023 would be a failure.... personally, I don't care whether the payroll is or isn't lower. If they managed to land Yamamoto or Imanaga or someone else at the higher end of the market on a longer term pricier deal, great, fine by me. If they can't accomplish that but go the more Lorenzen-esque route, that's fine too.

Either way, I just want them to make moves that make sense within the context of what they are trying to accomplish in 2024 and beyond. The dollar signs are irrelevant to me.

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We are in agreement.  

[alex]

  On 12/13/2023 at 8:20 PM, mtutiger said:

If they sign Yamamoto, great.... I haven't said that they shouldn't.

But going back to my original point:

Many fans seem to approach their payroll with the view that this team having a payroll lower than 2023 would be a failure.... personally, I don't care whether the payroll is or isn't lower. If they managed to land Yamamoto or Imanaga or someone else at the higher end of the market on a longer term pricier deal, great, fine by me. If they can't accomplish that but go the more Lorenzen-esque route, that's fine too.

Either way, I just want them to make moves that make sense within the context of what they are trying to accomplish in 2024 and beyond. The dollar signs are irrelevant to me.

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  On 12/13/2023 at 8:28 PM, Tiger337 said:

We are in agreement.  

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Double agreement 😉 👍

[CMRivdogs]

  On 12/13/2023 at 8:01 PM, oblong said:

That's the weather in July too.

I tell you, Pacific Beach where we went was probably the perfect place for me. I loved it.   

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Was there a few years ago early Summer. Had a nice walk on the beach near Hotel del Coronado. We took a bike from the San Diego waterfront. Also pretty cool watching ships come into the base.

The Padres were playing Milwaukee, I think, that week. My wife was in for a convention, they had a gathering at a nearby building on the roof. We ended up signaling each other with our phones.

[Dan Gilmore]

Although the marine air does cool things inland, it can be quite hot and dry when you get away from the beaches. I lived there for a bit and have visited my resident relatives frequently. Nice place for a vacation, but I wouldn’t want to live there. And that includes traffic/freeway hassles.

[chasfh]

  On 12/13/2023 at 9:49 PM, Dan Gilmore said:

Although the marine air does cool things inland, it can be quite hot and dry when you get away from the beaches. I lived there for a bit and have visited my resident relatives frequently. Nice place for a vacation, but I wouldn’t want to live there. And that includes traffic/freeway hassles.

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The main thing I don't love about warm west coast cities is that they do not have warm nights. It can get pretty gross here in Big Shoulders in July, but there's nothing like 84 degrees at 830pm when I'm sitting on my deck with a rum on the rocks, a Padron 2000 Maduro, and an OOTP team to work on.

[gehringer_2]

  On 12/13/2023 at 10:14 PM, chasfh said:

The main thing I don't love about warm west coast cities is that they do not have warm nights. It can get pretty gross here in Big Shoulders in July, but there's nothing like 84 degrees at 830pm when I'm sitting on my deck with a rum on the rocks, a Padron 2000 Maduro, and an OOTP team to work on.

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Yup. remembering to take a jacket with you when you leave the house at 2p in 80F in SoCal because you won't be back until after dark doesn't compute to a midwesterner.

[Cruzer1]

  On 12/13/2023 at 3:45 PM, chasfh said:

Tigers are listed in this article about good fits for ten teams that need starting pitching, and that's definitely progress, because that means they're taking us more seriously now. We would not be in last year's version of this article.

The best fits for 10 teams that are hungry for pitching - MLB.com

 

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Giolito sucks!

[buddha]

if i didnt live in chicago, i'd want to live in san diego.  great little city and not that far from the big city of LA.  wondeful weather even if it is a little hot and dry for my taste.

but chicago is the best city in america, imo.  even if the winter weather sucks 

[chasfh]

  On 12/14/2023 at 2:29 AM, buddha said:

if i didnt live in chicago, i'd want to live in san diego.  great little city and not that far from the big city of LA.  wondeful weather even if it is a little hot and dry for my taste.

but chicago is the best city in america, imo.  even if the winter weather sucks 

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Definitely without no doubt the best summer city in North America.