gehringer_2 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 5 hours ago, Toddwert said: I know its early but its looking like you want your team to play in the first round games 1st round byes are no advantage in baseball. That's the only reason I'm willing to see the format changed even if it means adding teams. The layoff degrades your hitters' timing and trashes your pitching rotation. Apparently the people that set this system up were either football people, or people who didn't know the difference between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 9 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: 1st round byes are no advantage in baseball. That's the only reason I'm willing to see the format changed even if it means adding teams. The layoff degrades your hitters' timing and trashes your pitching rotation. Apparently the people that set this system up were either football people, or people who didn't know the difference between the two. It will go to 16 teams,but there needs to be some incentive in winning the division. Maybe, they'll have more home games for the division winners. I don't really care anymore. I enjoy the regular season more and haven't even watched the playoffs yet this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 26 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: It will go to 16 teams,but there needs to be some incentive in winning the division. Maybe, they'll have more home games for the division winners. I don't really care anymore. I enjoy the regular season more and haven't even watched the playoffs yet this year. There's incentive to win your division if you play the lower seeded team and have home field. If that's not enough just make it more money - 🤷♀️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 39 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: There's incentive to win your division if you play the lower seeded team and have home field. If that's not enough just make it more money - 🤷♀️ I don't think playing the lower seeded team is a big enough advantage in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 49 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I don't think playing the lower seeded team is a big enough advantage in baseball. it is true that because of the very long season, oft times the team that finishes the season is nothing like the team that started it, being in a state where it is is either much better or much worse than its total seasonal record, and the other thing is that between a single pair of teams, particular match-up issues may drive the odds for their games more than overall win-loss record difference. But I'm not sure how you get out of the box on this because I believe that byes end up being more a more a penalty than an aid in baseball. I suppose the division winner could allowed to start a runner at 2nd at the top one or two innings per game...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Tiger337 said: It will go to 16 teams,but there needs to be some incentive in winning the division. Maybe, they'll have more home games for the division winners. I don't really care anymore. I enjoy the regular season more and haven't even watched the playoffs yet this year. When you said "I really don't care anymore" that resonated with me, I don’t know for sure who is in the playoffs and even if I did know, I couldn't name more than 4 players on each team. I feel like it has become so much more watered down over the last 20 years that I am going to spend a lot less time on it in the future. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 Maybe top seeds could get a game advantage? Like depending on the length of the series they only have to win 2 or 3 games while the lower team has to win 3 or 4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 8 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: 1st round byes are no advantage in baseball. That's the only reason I'm willing to see the format changed even if it means adding teams. The layoff degrades your hitters' timing and trashes your pitching rotation. Apparently the people that set this system up were either football people, or people who didn't know the difference between the two. Tell that to the four teams who got knocked out last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 Its kind of ridiculous that Tampa wasn't seeded 2 in the AL to begin with. They won 99 games in the toughest division in baseball and the seed goes to 90 win Houston. But sports and fans are thoughtlessly blinded by geographical divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 8 hours ago, Tiger337 said: I enjoy the regular season more and haven't even watched the playoffs yet this year. I have listened, via MLB audio, to several playoff games but I enjoy regular season games more as well. Post season, I had thrown my lot in with Tampa Bay (Durham Bulls) but that didn’t last long did it… I’m not really a fan of Texas but Bochy is making noise there so I’ll stay tuned. I guess I’m more interested in the characters than I am the show at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 It's baseball and is there really a difference in teams that win 90 games and those that win 99? They are all good teams and it's a cliche but anybody can beat anybody 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 5. The road teams are 9-5 this postseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted October 9, 2023 Author Share Posted October 9, 2023 34 minutes ago, casimir said: Its kind of ridiculous that Tampa wasn't seeded 2 in the AL to begin with. They won 99 games in the toughest division in baseball and the seed goes to 90 win Houston. But sports and fans are thoughtlessly blinded by geographical divisions. being a 2 seed wouldnt have help a Listless Tampa team win any more games.... but I agree about the divisions being the end all be all now that the schedule has changed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 For what it’s worth… Several Tampa players voiced dissatisfaction with the league for getting stuck with consecutive 3 PM starts to start the playoffs. They weren’t attributing this to the losses, rather the attendance. I do know the Rays were down several starters due to injuries when the playoffs rolled around. Gotta’ be tough on the fan base after such a strong start to disappear from the playoffs in the first two games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, oblong said: It's baseball and is there really a difference in teams that win 90 games and those that win 99? They are all good teams and it's a cliche but anybody can beat anybody 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 5. The road teams are 9-5 this postseason. I think in general when there is a difference of around 7 games or more, its a bit of a different tier of accomplishment over the course of a regular season. Specific to Tampa in the East vs Houston in the West and Minnesota in the Central, even with a more balanced schedule, I would think Tampa had the tougher regular season schedule to deal with this season. But you're right, they're all good teams at this point. Anybody can take a 3 or 5 or 7 game series. One of the things about baseball that I like over the other major sports is that it truly is a day-to-day game. Almost all teams are within a winning percentage range of 40-60%. Edited October 9, 2023 by casimir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 I just dont see it as a problem that needs fixing. If we need to protect the higher seed teams then just cancel the playoffs and award championships by record, which will never happen obviously. Byes make sense in football because it's a physical game and there's also lots of studying and planning that goes on. The body can heal during that time. I guess if there is a problem to be solved it's baseball's own doing by expanding the rounds, being beholden to TV considerations, and trying to squeeze the added playoffs between a 4 week window when you have to allow for time to settle tiebreakers and days off for travel. All of that has nothing to do with the teams or the players and their abilities, it's financial. "Let's make it exciting by having sudden death" gets cancelled by "Well it's not fair to have an all or nothing game and we want to introduce another team into the playoffs anyway" "Let's give the top two division winners a bye" gets cancelled by "well they are rusty now" "Let's make every round best of 7" gets cancelled by "there's not enough time to fit it all in before Thanksgiving" "Let's give the higher seed all the home games early on" gets cancelled by "The owners wants games in the other team's ballpark" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 I find it interesting how the postseason has evolved from a single World Series to determine the best team in baseball to playoffs that is a tournament separate and distinct from the regular season. I understand that the better team didn't always win the World Series back in the pre-divisions era, but the setup was compelling enough—one series, our league's best team versus your league's best team, mano a mano—that that's what we grew up believing. Now that I'm supposed to understand that all it is now is a postseason tournament that has little to do with anything that went before it in the regular season, I'm not sure how I should feel about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, chasfh said: I find it interesting how the postseason has evolved from a single World Series to determine the best team in baseball to playoffs that is a tournament separate and distinct from the regular season. I understand that the better team didn't always win the World Series back in the pre-divisions era, but the setup was compelling enough—one series, our league's best team versus your league's best team, mano a mano—that that's what we grew up believing. Now that I'm supposed to understand that all it is now is a postseason tournament that has little to do with anything that went before it in the regular season, I'm not sure how I should feel about it. that goes back to the AL and NL being different entities moreso than now. You had AL offices, NL offices, AL Umpires, NL umpires. The teams didn't play each other during the season. Player movement wasn't like it was today. In that sense it was unique. Now the leagues are just words rather than units with any meaning. They could be called conferences for all we care. It would be an interesting study to see how that evolved over time, at what point did they join up and what made up each connection? Could the American League add a team without the National League's approval for example? Or make their own rules? Outside of the NFL though no other league goes through this effort to reward teams for regular season sucess other than seeding. Everyone just got split up a certain way and that's how it was. The NHL did away with the Wales/Campbell conference designations. The NFL just took on the AFL and made it "American Conference" to pretend there was a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 One team, one example… The Twins played their last regular season game on October 1st. They’ll play their third post season game on the 10th, eight days later. That has to impact a team one way or another, for better or worse. Shutting teams down for extended periods of time isn’t good for the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 41 minutes ago, oblong said: that goes back to the AL and NL being different entities moreso than now. You had AL offices, NL offices, AL Umpires, NL umpires. The teams didn't play each other during the season. Player movement wasn't like it was today. In that sense it was unique. Now the leagues are just words rather than units with any meaning. They could be called conferences for all we care. It would be an interesting study to see how that evolved over time, at what point did they join up and what made up each connection? Could the American League add a team without the National League's approval for example? Or make their own rules? Outside of the NFL though no other league goes through this effort to reward teams for regular season sucess other than seeding. Everyone just got split up a certain way and that's how it was. The NHL did away with the Wales/Campbell conference designations. The NFL just took on the AFL and made it "American Conference" to pretend there was a difference. The two leagues have not been separate business entities since, I believe, 2000? They both subsumed their business operation under Major League Baseball, so they could not, as you imply, expand or move teams on their own, or make their own rules. I put together a SABR presentation during which I learned that neither league could move teams without the general consent of their other league anyway until December 1952. They then went to a system that required no no input from the other league. It would be unanimous consent for an NL team to move, and a minimum 6-2 vote for an AL move. The idea of consent from the other league was dropped because they were basically killing off every move the other league wanted to make. That's a key reason there were no franchise moves between 1903 and 1952. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Christian Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 47 minutes ago, oblong said: that goes back to the AL and NL being different entities moreso than now. You had AL offices, NL offices, AL Umpires, NL umpires. The teams didn't play each other during the season. Player movement wasn't like it was today. In that sense it was unique. Now the leagues are just words rather than units with any meaning. They could be called conferences for all we care. It would be an interesting study to see how that evolved over time, at what point did they join up and what made up each connection? Could the American League add a team without the National League's approval for example? Or make their own rules? Outside of the NFL though no other league goes through this effort to reward teams for regular season sucess other than seeding. Everyone just got split up a certain way and that's how it was. The NHL did away with the Wales/Campbell conference designations. The NFL just took on the AFL and made it "American Conference" to pretend there was a difference. My deer hunting buddy, Adam Hamari, worked the WC round in Minnesota and will umpire the NLCS when they start. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 57 minutes ago, chasfh said: I find it interesting how the postseason has evolved from a single World Series to determine the best team in baseball to playoffs that is a tournament separate and distinct from the regular season. I understand that the better team didn't always win the World Series back in the pre-divisions era, but the setup was compelling enough—one series, our league's best team versus your league's best team, mano a mano—that that's what we grew up believing. Now that I'm supposed to understand that all it is now is a postseason tournament that has little to do with anything that went before it in the regular season, I'm not sure how I should feel about it. I liked it better the old way, but it's not coming back. I do not have a problem with the post-season being separate and distinct from the regular season. The problem is I don't think they are regarded separately. The post-season tournament is regarded as far more important with the winner determining the league champion and the regular season virtually being ignored as far as team accomplishments. I would like the teams with the best records in the regular season to be rewarded more for the regular season records than the post-season tournament. I do understand that the post-season would make no money if it was regarded as a footnote to the regular season, but I don't have to like it. On the other hand, regular season individual accomplishments get more recognition than post-season accomplishments. It's a strange disconnect. That part makes me happy, because I am probably more interested in individual than team accomplishments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 8 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I liked it better the old way, but it's not coming back. I do not have a problem with the post-season being separate and distinct from the regular season. The problem is I don't think they are regarded separately. The post-season tournament is regarded as far more important with the winner determining the league champion and the regular season virtually being ignored as far as team accomplishments. I would like the teams with the best records in the regular season to be rewarded more for the regular season records than the post-season tournament. I do understand that the post-season would make no money if it was regarded as a footnote to the regular season, but I don't have to like it. On the other hand, regular season individual accomplishments get more recognition than post-season accomplishments. It's a strange disconnect. That part makes me happy, because I am probably more interested in individual than team accomplishments. This is basically what I meant when I said they are regarded separately. No one remembers who won divisions or even had the best record in the league, but they do remember who won the tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 42 minutes ago, 1776 said: One team, one example… The Twins played their last regular season game on October 1st. They’ll play their third post season game on the 10th, eight days later. That has to impact a team one way or another, for better or worse. Shutting teams down for extended periods of time isn’t good for the game. but on the flip side Verlander shut them down pretty good in game 1 and if he stayed in the game it could have been a shutout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 Eliminate the off days would help and since it is a tournament seed all teams by record before the tournament starts with division winners being the tie breaker. Regular season should mean something. Then reseed after the first round and top four teams get all the games at home again. Yes five straight. Deference to the regular season again. Last two rounds the team with the best record gets four home games if their regular season records are close. If difference is 5 games or more give them 5 home games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 I guess I would add that when it comes to days off and rewarding clubs for better records I will defer to the players and owners. if that's how they want it then so be it. What do I care? I shed no tears for Baltimore, I have no animosity but it's not my team and as a viewer I want enjoyable games to watch and I especially like it when there's 3-4 games a day to watch. When it's an afternoon game even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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