RatkoVarda Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 the WCK story is horrific; some of them were bombed 3 times, moving first to a 2nd car and then to a 3rd, with the 3rd strike killing all who lived through first 2. all wars kill civilians; how many weddings have we droned striked? i have lost count. not sure this a new chapter in this mess, or just more death on top of more death Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 4 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: ... We're set to sell Jewish Trump 50 F-15 fighter jets in a deal expected to be worth more than $18 billion... We are selling them personally to Bibi? He has a personal Air Force? He is personally paying us $18 billion? Could you please stop mischaracterizing support for the State of Israel with direct interactions with Netanyahu, which are LIES? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 We are selling F-15's to the State of Israel, which is run by Netanyahu and his Likud government. The Israeli Prime Minister acts as a defacto Commander in Chief and as a result this is Netanyahu's war that the IDF is waging. By selling F-15's to Netanyahu's government, during the midst of a war they are waging, that is the United States showing its support for both the State of Israel being lead by Netanyahu and the war being also lead by Netanyahu. You cannot divorce Netanyahu from Israel, most especially when he is trying an authoritarian power grab to become a dictator and end democratic government in that country. You can no more divorce him from Israel than you could Trump from this country when he attempted to install a dictatorship here on January 6th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 (edited) When I think about support for Israel under Netanyahu I think back to Harry Truman and his view of supporting Spain so as long as Francisco Franco was in power. While Franco was himself a full blown dictator in Spain and Bibi is not quite there yet, Netanyahu is hell bent on becoming one. Truman had the belief that you couldn't negotiate with or treat on equal footing a country like Spain so as long as Franco was in power. Now, would I go as far as Truman did and keep Israel out of the UN? Of course not, there are plenty of nation states, led by worse people than Bibi, whose countries are apart of the UN. Many of them right there in the Arab region. I do think the US needs to take a much tougher diplomatic tact with Israel, akin to what Truman did with Spain and Franco's government. I think we need to condition and/or outright stop military aid until this war gets under control and Netanyahu's power grab is brought under control. Israel has a right to defend itself, but with the death toll rising over 30,000, a famine outbreak likely, and the Israel government now targeting aid workers, something has to be done on our end speak out against the assault Bibi and the IDF are waging on Gaza. There comes a point where self defense crosses the line and where measurable objectives (like getting hostages home) need to be met. Israel is crossing the line on self defense and Bibi is not meeting one of his own, major, self proclaimed objectives. Edited April 3 by Mr.TaterSalad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 (edited) You cannot divorce Hamas from Palestine so why is it always one sided that Israel needs to lay down their arms for Hamas? Israel has agreed to a ceasefire. Hamas can end this today. Edited April 3 by Motown Bombers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Lets be clear, Israel has nuclear weapons. They do not need any assistance from the US to completely wipe out Gaza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben9753 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Why doesn’t the Palestinian government surrender already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 3 Author Share Posted April 3 All the above said, I still think it's odd optics at the least for the admin to be publicly castigating Netanyahu while simultaneously proposing additional arms sales to his government. And it's not like Israel needs F15s in Gaza, or would even get them in time for this conflict. The only way the timing of this make sense is if the Admim is setting up to get the GOP right wing committed to this and then turn around and tie it to Ukraine support. Other than that is does seem like a tone deaf FP move for Biden, and his FP chops are generally better than that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 3 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: We are selling F-15's to ... The Israeli Prime Minister acts as a defacto Commander in Chief and as a result this is Netanyahu's war that ... So you're trying to tell us that we are selling them DIRECTLY to Netanyahu, right? OR... That we need to drop support for the State of Israel ENTIRELY... Because of... Bibi. Right? **** Israel? Do I have you right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: All the above said, I still think it's odd optics at the least for the admin to be publicly castigating Netanyahu while simultaneously proposing additional arms sales to his government. And it's not like Israel needs F15s in Gaza, or would even get them in time for this conflict. The only way the timing of this make sense is if the Admim is setting up to get the GOP right wing committed to this and then turn around and tie it to Ukraine support. Other than that is does seem like a tone deaf FP move for Biden, and his FP chops are generally better than that. On this I can agree with. At the very least, Biden should have gone to the podium and said "All weapons sales to the State of Israel are halted until there is a humanitarian resolution to the current Israel-induced famine in Gaza. We will play our part. But all weapons sales are halted until Israel also does its part, which it is unacceptably failing, miserably." 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 21 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: So you're trying to tell us that we are selling them DIRECTLY to Netanyahu, right? OR... That we need to drop support for the State of Israel ENTIRELY... Because of... Bibi. Right? **** Israel? Do I have you right? We need to drop the military aid we're giving without condition and place actual, tenable conditions on that aid and hold Isreal to it. We also need to publicly call out Bibi, just as we have called out Hamas, for who he is and what he's attempted to do to democracy in Isreal. The public criticism needs to be ratcheted up and the military aid needs to either be restricted with heavy conditions or stopped entirely imo. Even former Biden staffers who host a nationally recognized podcast, who are loyalists of his, are demanding he do more publicly and change direction towards Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 First it was Biden needed to call for a ceasefire and now he needs to give public ultimatums to Bibi? I thought tankies were against regime change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 38 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: First it was Biden needed to call for a ceasefire and now he needs to give public ultimatums to Bibi? I thought tankies were against regime change? I thought you supported democracy and were against Trump? You might as well just bubble in Trump if you're willing to support Bibi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 4 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: I thought you supported democracy and were against Trump? You might as well just bubble in Trump if you're willing to support Bibi. Israel is the only liberal democracy in the Middle East and the people of Israel will need to deal with Bibi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 When Obama and Biden's own former staffers, like Favreau and the Pod Save America crew, are coming out against the administration's policy towards Isreal I think that speaks loudly. These tankies, far left people, or whatever people want to call people who dare to criticize Bibi. These are rational, run of the mill Dems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Watching Chris Hayes tonight he had on Senator Chris Murphy and even he's on national TV criticizing Isreali war efforts and being at least semi critical of the Biden administration. This has gone beyond just tankies on the left being critical of the war effort and limited change in US policy towards Bibi's war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Yeah I don't care about a podcaster who hasn't worked for Biden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben9753 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Why no calls for the Palistinian government to surrender? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Area troll who doesn't care what podcasters who didn't work for biden think at the same time regularly posts tweets from random twitter users that didn't work for biden, and also responds to other internet posters on motownforums dot com who also did not work for biden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 10 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: When Obama and Biden's own former staffers, like Favreau and the Pod Save America crew, are coming out against the administration's policy towards Isreal I think that speaks loudly. To be fair, Obama has never been a friend of Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 1 hour ago, pfife said: Area troll who doesn't care what podcasters who didn't work for biden think at the same time regularly posts tweets from random twitter users that didn't work for biden, and also responds to other internet posters on motownforums dot com who also did not work for biden. Favreau worked for the Obama/Biden administration as the Director of Speechwriting. So it wasn't like he was some office assistant fetching coffee and getting faxes. He's got some high level credibility in my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: Favreau worked for the Obama/Biden administration as the Director of Speechwriting. So it wasn't like he was some office assistant fetching coffee and getting faxes. He's got some high level credibility in my eyes. He does not currently work for Biden. Ronny Jackson also worked for the Obama/Biden administration. The point is he has no inside knowledge of Biden's administration so don't present it as such. Edited April 4 by Motown Bombers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 He's the one who grabbed "Hillary's" boob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 16 hours ago, ben9753 said: Why doesn’t the Palestinian government surrender already? Because they aren't Jews? It's telling these people most passionate issue today is Israel retaliating against Hamas for violating a ceasefire and attempting a genocide. They aren't nearly as passionate for Ukraine in which Russia is doing a genocide right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Jesus Christ even Dr Phil gets it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.