Motown Bombers Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 2 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: That does it for me. Can she be replaced? Or, rather... how soon? There is a primary challenger but its a long shot. She's well funded and popular in Dearborn. You would need strong turn out in Detroit, Southfield and Oak Park along with some of the moderate areas of Livonia to take her out. I suggest trying to flip MI-10 and cancel her out. Marlinga lost MI-10 but only 0.5% to John James who was much more well funded. Democrats just threw in the towel and Stevens went and carpetbagged in MI-11 and Levin chose to challenge Stevens. All though with Levin, he's just a privileged asshole and isn't much better than James. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 Not a genocide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Not a genocide Read the FDD analysis. Just because they have "incomplete data" does not mean that the dead are NOT dead... it just means they are unable to fully document the death. I think that's a misread by The Persian Jewess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 TEL AVIV—Israel is preparing for a direct attack from Iran on southern or northern Israel as soon as the next 24 to 48 hours, according to a person familiar with the matter. A person briefed by the Iranian leadership, however, said that while plans to attack are being discussed, no final decision has been made. Iran has publicly threatened to retaliate for an attack last week in Damascus, Syria, that Tehran said was an Israeli airstrike on a diplomatic building. The strike killed top Iranian military officials, including a senior member of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps’ elite Quds Force. Earlier this week, U.S. intelligence reports showed that an attack on Israeli assets by Iran or its proxies could be imminent, but a source says it now appears that the attack could be within Israel’s borders. A U.S. official with knowledge of the matter said Thursday that American intelligence reports indicate an Iranian retaliatory strike within days, “possibly on Israeli soil” as opposed to Israeli interests elsewhere. -WSJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 12 Author Share Posted April 12 (edited) this is probably what a twisted **** like Netanyahu is hoping for as he no doubt sees a straight out conflict with Iran as good politics. Edited April 12 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 9 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: Read the FDD analysis. Just because they have "incomplete data" does not mean that the dead are NOT dead... it just means they are unable to fully document the death. I think that's a misread by The Persian Jewess. How dare you question the Persian Jewess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 I mean, it's from Hamas themselves. They have been running for months that these people were confirmed dead and now about a third of their reported deaths are "incomplete." The mission has already been accomplished. They got media around the world to report it and have people willing to end democracy over it. They also acknowledged that some of the dead were fighters and not civilians. Not a genocide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 It’s actually from an organization called Foundation for Defense of Democracies, which is combining estimates from two different sources—Hamas on totals, IDF on combatants—to arrive at a conveniently-low figure for civilians deaths with the apparent aim of minimizing the civilians number. Why might FDD minimize the civilians number? This might offer a clue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Defense_of_Democracies On its website, FDD describes itself as "a nonpartisan 501(c)(3) research institute focusing on national security and foreign policy" that "conducts in-depth research, produces accurate and timely analyses, identifies illicit activities, and provides policy options – all with the aim of strengthening U.S. national security and reducing or eliminating threats posed by adversaries and enemies of the United States and other free nations."[6] John Mearsheimer in 2007, Muhammad Idrees Ahmad in 2014, and Ofira Sekiktar in 2018 have described FDD as part of the Israel lobby in the United States.[9][10][11] Sima Vaknin-Gil, director general of Israel's Ministry of Strategic Affairs, had stated that the FDD works in conjunction with the Israeli government including the ministry.[12] Later documents described the mission as "to conduct research and provide education on international terrorism and related issues".[13] On 15 November 2019, FDD officially registered as a lobby under Lobbying Disclosure Act of 1995.[3] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 6 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: ... They also acknowledged that some of the dead were fighters and not civilians. Not a genocide. Correct. Roughly 13,000 (that's a WAG) of the dead are Hamas fighters. Other gray areas: 1) They don't report who killed the dead. IE: It was proven that Hamas bombed Al-Shifa Hospital (the one time) when they were claiming an estimated 300 or so dead from Israeli missiles. Only they weren't Israeli, they were failed Hamas missiles that went awry. Those deaths are included in the Health Ministry totals. In other words: We have NO IDEA how many of the Health Ministry's 33K dead were killed by HAMAS because they don't differentiate. Whether it's an errant Hamas missile (and they misfire often), or caught in crossfires between Hamas terrorists and IDF soldiers and killed by stray Hamas bullets... It's NOT zero. 2) Hamas uses child soldiers. As messengers, as weapons & ammunition "transporters", as battlefield damage assessors, as battlefield "scouts", as lookouts, etc... Of all the women and children killed and reported by the Health Ministry, we have no idea how many were actively, militarily, supporting Hamas terrorists. But it is NOT zero. It's dangerously close to genocidal due to the induced famine and the total wipeout of their cities, outside of Rafah. But the civilian casualties to military casualties are roughly 1.5 to 1, in an urban war. That's unprecedented. The UN expects 9-1 civilian casualties in an urban war. That's their standard. Israel has taken more steps, outside of the U.S. in our ME wars, than anyone, ever, to reduce civilian casualties. Not a genocide. The wipeout of their cities...? I'm thinking of Dresden, Germany, in WWII, when we firebombed Dresden. I believe there were quite a lot of civilian casualties in that event. In other words: compared to Israel in Gaza: there's been much, much, much worse. And... as already stated, Israel has taken unprecedented measures to try to prevent civilian deaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 5 minutes ago, chasfh said: ... which is combining estimates from two different sources—Hamas on totals, IDF on combatants—to arrive at a ... This isn't the problem. 13K combatant deaths (IDF) out of 33K total deaths (Gaza Health Ministry, or, Hamas) is probably a decent guess. That's using the two sources. But what they are doing wrong is basically saying "Well, the Health Ministry doesn't have FULL DOCUMENTATION of the death so we're not going to count them. So there's only 26K dead that we're going to count..." Even though there's actually 33K dead. That's what's sort of... ****ed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 5 minutes ago, chasfh said: It’s actually from an organization called Foundation for Defense of Democracies, which is combining estimates from two different sources—Hamas on totals, IDF on combatants—to arrive at a conveniently-low figure for civilians deaths with the apparent aim of minimizing the civilians number. Why might FDD minimize the civilians number? This might offer a clue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Defense_of_Democracies On its website, FDD describes itself as "a nonpartisan 501(c)(3) research institute focusing on national security and foreign policy" that "conducts in-depth research, produces accurate and timely analyses, identifies illicit activities, and provides policy options – all with the aim of strengthening U.S. national security and reducing or eliminating threats posed by adversaries and enemies of the United States and other free nations."[6] John Mearsheimer in 2007, Muhammad Idrees Ahmad in 2014, and Ofira Sekiktar in 2018 have described FDD as part of the Israel lobby in the United States.[9][10][11] Sima Vaknin-Gil, director general of Israel's Ministry of Strategic Affairs, had stated that the FDD works in conjunction with the Israeli government including the ministry.[12] Later documents described the mission as "to conduct research and provide education on international terrorism and related issues".[13] On 15 November 2019, FDD officially registered as a lobby under Lobbying Disclosure Act of 1995.[3] Actually, to be clear, it is not FDD that is conflating the Hams and IDF numbers, but the Persian Jewess Twitter feed itself. But the agenda of the FDD also seems clear in its implication of the US media acting irresponsibly when they say, “On October 16, the health ministry told global media that an Israeli airstrike was responsible for an explosion that killed 500 Palestinians at the Al Ahli Arab Hospital in northern Gaza. U.S. media quickly reported the story even though it became clear within hours there was no evidence to support claims of an airstrike or a death toll close to 500”, when in the link to CNN in the sentence you can see the lead line is, “More than 500 dead following strike on hospital in Gaza, Hamas says” (emphasis mine). So they are imputing a pro-Palestinian agenda among the US media even as they follow standard established journalism ethics, and they are using the Bari Weiss Free Press, a pro-Israeli opinion site, to dispute the claims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 6 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: This isn't the problem. 13K combatant deaths (IDF) out of 33K total deaths (Gaza Health Ministry, or, Hamas) is probably a decent guess. That's using the two sources. But what they are doing wrong is basically saying "Well, the Health Ministry doesn't have FULL DOCUMENTATION of the death so we're not going to count them. So there's only 26K dead that we're going to count..." Even though there's actually 33K dead. That's what's sort of... ****ed up. It is a problem when two sources with divergent agendas are combined to create one data point that’s convenient for one of the sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 I mean, they used Hamas as the source of the "incomplete" deaths. The deaths that Hamas were saying were confirmed for months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 I also find it interesting that the anti genocide squad is not signing a discharge petition for aid to Ukraine where a real genocide is happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 (edited) There is no doubt that Hamas has an agenda and the Gaza Health Ministry works under the auspices of Hamas, so they would have an incentive to cook the numbers to make the death toll seem high, and to ignore the difference in deaths between Hamas fighters and ordinary civilians. But Israel also has an incentive to cook the numbers to make the death toll seem low, and to characterize the percent of deaths being Hamas fighters as being as close to 100% as possible. So whom to believe? Most people will believe the numbers of the side they are squarely on. Me, I'm not on any side, except on the side of the people who want nothing more than to live ordinary, everyday lives minding their own business, so I would want to know the number closest to the truth, versus the number that best supports the purpose of breathing fire into a political forum. Why do I tend to out more stock in the Hamas numbers than I do the IDF numbers? According to this, the World Health Organization characterizes the Health Ministry numbers as, if not "perfectly accurate on a minute-to-minute basis", then at least as being "largely reflect[ive of] the level of death and injury" during the siege. Also, Israel sealed Gaza’s borders and barred foreign journalists and humanitarian workers from even entering the area from the very beginning. That's the action of a party that has an interest in shielding what's happening in the area from the outside world. I wouldn't take the numbers of either side as being ... ahem ... the gospel truth, but I do believe that one side's numbers are probably more accurate than the other's. In the end, though, we won't know anything that's closer to the truth than either side's for years, if at all, and even then, it will be at the behest of the party that gets to write it all up as history. Edited April 12 by chasfh 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 2 hours ago, chasfh said: It is a problem when two sources with divergent agendas are combined to create one data point that’s convenient for one of the sides. I'm saying that the IDF number is a SUBSET of the Health Ministry number. Health Ministry is total deaths. Good number as far as I'm concerned. But they do NOT differentiate between Hamas and civilians... so: IDF reports Hamas fighter deaths. If they say ~13K... then that is a SUBSET of the Health Ministry's TOTAL 33K deaths. They have divergent agendas... But I don't see a problem with doing the math. I think what the FDD is doing is not right: Excluding death counts on the pretense that incomplete validations is a justifiable excuse to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 Anti genocide caucus has no problem with actual genocide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 The U.S. rushed warships into position to protect Israel and American forces in the region, hoping to head off a direct attack from Iran on Israel that could come as soon as Friday or Saturday. The moves by the U.S. that are part of an effort to avoid a wider conflict in the Middle East came after a warning from a person familiar with the matter about the timing and location of the potential Iranian attack. A person briefed by the Iranian leadership, however, said that while plans to attack are being discussed, no final decision has been made. -WSJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) Edited April 13 by CMRivdogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Genocide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 These are the weapons Hamasholes want the US to stop giving to Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 14 Author Share Posted April 14 this is such a weird dance Israel and Iran are doing. The 'attack' by Iran on Israel by means Iran knew Israel could pretty easily counter stands as sort of a de-escalating escalation. They created an off ramp for themselves with their own public and more importantly an off-ramp for Netanyahu as well if he is willing - or even wants to - take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 I would imagine there are a fair number of Iranians sleeping with their lights on right about now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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