The Gaza War

[gehringer_2]

3 hours ago, ben9753 said:

Israel took down another scumbag in Beirut. Seems like they have no more ****s to give, and will do whatever it takes to ensure their safety. If you're on their naughty list, you can't be sleeping very well at night.

Reports are that is was the guy who plotted the Marine Barracks bombing in '83 - now Hezbollah's military commander.

[oblong]

23 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Reports are that is was the guy who plotted the Marine Barracks bombing in '83 - now Hezbollah's military commander.

They got another one responsible for that a few weeks ago didn't they?

 

[chasfh]

On 9/19/2024 at 1:56 PM, gehringer_2 said:

well, I suppose that since the Tsar already had his own terrorist secret police, it was/is sort of endemic in Russian history!

Semantics alert: Some political scientists may argue that states cannot be said to be engaging in terrorism against residents within their own borders, since they define terrorism as the unlawful use of violence to achieve political ends, and established states get to set their own laws. As such, they hold that only non-stare actors can engage in actual terrorism. They would argue that North Korea is not a terrorist state, despite the extreme violence or the threat of it otherwise against their own people, because the state is operating legally as defined within their own laws.

[Biff Mayhem]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Semantics alert: Some political scientists may argue that states cannot be said to be engaging in terrorism against residents within their own borders, since they define terrorism as the unlawful use of violence to achieve political ends, and established states get to set their own laws. As such, they hold that only non-stare actors can engage in actual terrorism. They would argue that North Korea is not a terrorist state, despite the extreme violence or the threat of it otherwise against their own people, because the state is operating legally as defined within their own laws.

You must be fun at parties boss. 

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Semantics alert: Some political scientists may argue that states cannot be said to be engaging in terrorism against residents within their own borders, since they define terrorism as the unlawful use of violence to achieve political ends, and established states get to set their own laws. As such, they hold that only non-stare actors can engage in actual terrorism. They would argue that North Korea is not a terrorist state, despite the extreme violence or the threat of it otherwise against their own people, because the state is operating legally as defined within their own laws.

i agree there is certainly a connotative understanding in that direction. Then again there are cases that bleed out over the edges of definitions that attempt precision. Take Hamas or Hezbollah for a near at hand example. They practice non-state terror across their borders and tyrannical murderous management against their own population to maintain quasi state status at 'home'.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, Biff Mayhem said:

You must be fun at parties boss. 

I am! Especially at parties where people are discussing terrorism! 🤡

[Mr.TaterSalad]

If any other country raided and shutdown a media entity like this US Diplomats and government officials would publicly freaking out and potentially responding with harsh action. But somehow, Jewish Trump will be able to get away with opposing and oppressing free press. This is an outrageous and dangerous step towards fascism on Jewish Trump's part. Just as we here in the United States are concerned about America's step towards fascism if Donald Trump gets elected again, Jewish Trump is already doing what we fear in Isreal. 

 

[Biff Mayhem]

7 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

If any other country raided and shutdown a media entity like this US Diplomats and government officials would publicly freaking out and potentially responding with harsh action. But somehow, Jewish Trump will be able to get away with opposing and oppressing free press. This is an outrageous and dangerous step towards fascism on Jewish Trump's part. Just as we here in the United States are concerned about America's step towards fascism if Donald Trump gets elected again, Jewish Trump is already doing what we fear in Isreal. 

 

Would you change your mind if it was shown that they were providing communication capabilities for the country’s enemy?

[Motown Bombers]

Just now, Biff Mayhem said:

Would you change your mind if it was shown that they were providing communication capabilities for the country’s enemy?

The only enemy is Israel. They be doing genocides left and right and are colonizers. They even genocided all the cats and dogs in Gaza. 

[Motown Bombers]

 

[ben9753]

I’m no expert, does Israel’s constitution guarantee freedom of the Press?

[Mr.TaterSalad]

On 9/22/2024 at 10:28 AM, Biff Mayhem said:

Would you change your mind if it was shown that they were providing communication capabilities for the country’s enemy?

If there was evidence that Al Jazeera was actively aiding Hamas it might change my mind, but this is a really bad look. Is there evidence to support such a claim at this time?

Israel and it's regime lead by a wannabe dictator are trending in very, very dangerous territory here. When governmental agencies, lead by the command of a wannabe dictator, can come in and stifle the press and decide what is and isn't legit news media and coverage, that's not acceptable. That's the kind of actions Trump wants to take here by changing liable laws, litigating the press in court, and stymieing any journalistic coverage that's not favorable to him. If you are freaked out and concerned with Trump's dangerous rhetoric towards the press, we should be freaked out when his authoritarian Israeli counterpart does it too.

[gehringer_2]

On 9/22/2024 at 12:03 PM, Motown Bombers said:

 

First rule of warfare is that you can't start one and then complain you get back worse than you gave. Not the way it works in the real world.

[gehringer_2]

IDF kills Nasrallah.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/world/israel-lebanon-hezbollah-hamas?nl=from-the-times&regi_id=143837266&segment_id=179102

I don't know if the Arab radicals realize what a shift 10/6 has caused in Israel. It used to be Israel would go after radical leaders as targets of opportunity presented themselves. Now Israel is operating free of any self imposed restraint. I don't know what difference that makes longer term, but it's notable.

Edited September 28 by gehringer_2

[oblong]

Reading comments from local Arabs and Muslims is interesting. Most are lamenting the killing of a “martyr” but then a Syrian jumps in and is like “WTF?”  

[oblong]

23 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

IDF kills Nasrallah.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/world/israel-lebanon-hezbollah-hamas?nl=from-the-times&regi_id=143837266&segment_id=179102

I don't know if the Arab radicals realize what a shift 10/6 has caused in Israel. It used to be Israel would go after radical leaders as targets of opportunity presented themselves. Now Israel is operating free of any self imposed restraint. I don't know what difference that makes longer term, but it's notable.

One side kills civilians as a matter of strategy and terror.  The other side now responds to target the soldiers and fighters without regard to civilian loss because the civilians are either complicit or the soldiers/leaders purposefully hide among them thinking Israel won’t go after them. Israel sees the civilian casualties as the fault and victims of Hamas and Hezbollah. 

[gehringer_2]

16 minutes ago, oblong said:

Israel sees the civilian casualties as the fault and victims of Hamas and Hezbollah. 

My question would be whether the more aggressive stance by Israel makes it any harder for these groups to swim in the population or not. Probably not since they enforce their will by terror at home as well, which is completely unreported by international media. But just ask yourself how Israel always seems to know where these guys are? There is a large segment of the local population that hates them and provides a constant stream of intelligence over the transom to the IDF.

[1984Echoes]

11 hours ago, oblong said:

One side kills civilians as a matter of strategy and terror.  The other side now responds to target the soldiers and fighters without regard to civilian loss because the civilians are either complicit or the soldiers/leaders purposefully hide among them thinking Israel won’t go after them. Israel sees the civilian casualties as the fault and victims of Hamas and Hezbollah. 

And (how Israel views this) rightfully so.

[gehringer_2]

The other logic I don't get is the idea that Israel going after Hamas and Hezbollah leaders forces Iran to up the ante. Possible, but I see no necessity in the logic. The whole reason you use proxies is so they take the losses. Hezbollah and Hamas may be important to Iran, but they are a lot less important to them than their own forces or Iran wouldn't have gone to the effort to set them up to keep the pot boiling at arm's distance from themselves in the first place.

Edited September 29 by gehringer_2

[Mr.TaterSalad]

 

If anyone is interested, Israeli settlers are now advertising for settlements in Lebanon. See, that's what this is about. Not self defense, but concurring land and expanding.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

On 9/24/2024 at 1:20 PM, gehringer_2 said:

First rule of warfare is that you can't start one and then complain you get back worse than you gave. Not the way it works in the real world.

No, but you don't get to indiscriminately kill anyone and everyone associated with the person who has committed the hostile action or started the war. Because one terrorist lives in an apartment complex, that doesn't mean you can bomb the entire complex with civilians inside as a form of retaliation. 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

On 9/22/2024 at 12:34 PM, ben9753 said:

I’m no expert, does Israel’s constitution guarantee freedom of the Press?

https://thejewishindependent.com.au/netanyahus-other-war-against-israeli-media

For now Israel has a free-ish press, but Netanyahu is working to change that and turn Israel into an authoritative state and dictatorship. Like Trump, Netanyahu despises free press and any journalist that dare to critique him. He is dictatorial in nature and by supporting Israel with funding, armaments, and munitions throughout this conflict, we are propping up Bibi and supporting this type of authoritative behavior.

[gehringer_2]

16 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

No, but you don't get to indiscriminately kill anyone and everyone associated with the person who has committed the hostile action or started the war. Because one terrorist lives in an apartment complex, that doesn't mean you can bomb the entire complex with civilians inside as a form of retaliation. 

actually if you study the history of warfare, it pretty much does. The allies (i.e. good guys) firebombed cities in WWII. The US killed all kinds of people as 'collateral damage' in so-called precision strikes. Consider the hell we unleashed in the ME over 9/11. You can make an argument that it was only decades of a unique level of Israeli forbearance to wage war the way it's always been waged that allowed organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah to successfully hide behind their captive populations for so long. Now Israeli's enemies have pushed it to where the necessity of protecting its own people requires them to end that forbearance. Every state has that right. It's a terrible thing to witness, but the craven nature of the societies around them is fundamentally not Israel's responsibility. If you start killing another nation's people, you can expect to get back hell without reservation until you stop. And Hezbollah and Hamas have made no move to stop. All you can do is call Israel's  enemies fools if they deluded themselves into ignoring the inevitable outcome of their own actions, and weep for the people of their own populations they have put in harm's way.

[Motown Bombers]

1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

 

If anyone is interested, Israeli settlers are now advertising for settlements in Lebanon. See, that's what this is about. Not self defense, but concurring land and expanding.

If anyone is interested:

"Middle East Eye (MEE) is a UK-based news website founded in 2014, that covers the Middle East and North Africa. It is reportedly funded by the government of Qatar"

"According to its critics, Middle East Eye began forming in London in 2013 as the Islamist influence of Al Jazeera began to wane; several Al Jazeera journalists subsequently joined the project."

"According to Ilan Berman and Sultan Sooud Al-Qassemi, Middle East Eye is backed by Qatar. The governments of Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt and Bahrain accuse MEE of pro-Muslim Brotherhood bias and receiving Qatari funding."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Eye#Controversies

Edited September 30 by Motown Bombers

[Motown Bombers]

58 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

https://thejewishindependent.com.au/netanyahus-other-war-against-israeli-media

For now Israel has a free-ish press, but Netanyahu is working to change that and turn Israel into an authoritative state and dictatorship. Like Trump, Netanyahu despises free press and any journalist that dare to critique him. He is dictatorial in nature and by supporting Israel with funding, armaments, and munitions throughout this conflict, we are propping up Bibi and supporting this type of authoritative behavior.

Israel needs more of that free press from the government of Qatar apparently.