Motown Bombers Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Why is it leftist care so much more about the death toll in Gaza than Ukraine, Sudan, Yemen, Syria etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Just now, Motown Bombers said: I don't believe but I tend to believe them more than the terrorists number that you are sharing memes from. See, I can play this fallacious game all day too and attack the source as you're doing. You say terrorist numbers and I attack your source as being from a corrupt, sociopathic, megalomaniac, hell bent on taking down democracy in Israel and installing himself as a dictator. The truth is, we don't seem to have great numbers out of Gaza, from an independent, non-Ministry of Health source. I don't know how accurate the MoH numbers really are. I'd be almost certain that Hamas' MoH is inflating numbers and putting a spin on them to make things look as dire as possible. I'd be almost certain there are many hundreds, maybe even thousands, or terrorists from Hamas lumped into the growing death toll. I also do not trust what Bibi's government is putting out either. Netanyahu has a reason to prolong this war as long as possible because he feels it will make him a popular, war-time President. He wants to be the Bush after 9/11 or Putin now in Ukraine. So the longer this goes and the more bad guys the IDF is alleged to have killed, the better it is for Bibi's political career. What I do believe though, because I see it on news coverage daily, is that far too many innocent civilians and especially children, are falling victim to this war in Gaza. Hundreds-of-thousands are being displaced from their homes and not being given basic human necessities. Many will die of hunger and starvation as a result of not getting basic aid and from a prolonged war. Some of that is on Hamas and some of that is on Bibi and Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 39 minutes ago, chasfh said: ... FWIW, since the Gaza health people do not break out their numbers between civilians and operatives, and IDF is not even including civilians in their numbers at all, suggesting there are additional deaths to the numbers we’ve seen today, I would bet that the total number of deaths on IDF’s radar is pretty close to the number the Gaza health people are reporting. I would state that the IDF's numbers are probably EXACTLY the same as Gaza Health... IN TOTAL. As you said, IDF is not counting the civilian deaths. I have never had a problem with the Health Ministries "total" number of casualty numbers. My problem has always been that they do not report any combatant deaths, which leads to the conflation of all deaths being civilian, which they are NOT. And then Tater or someone else comes in upset about all the civilian deaths. When that is ABSOLUTELY not truth. Almost ALL countries differentiate between military and civilian deaths. Those that do not, or distort the numbers: Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, Hamas, and other similar countries/ organizations. There's a theme there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 33 minutes ago, 1776 said: OK, out of curiosity at this point, does this link have anything to do with the “14,000” deaths in Gaza that is being discussed? I’m rolling the dice here. It is a dated article. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/25/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-death-toll.html No... That's Gaza (Hamas) Health Ministry TOTAL deaths as of that date in November. Nice try though! 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 11 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: See, I can play this fallacious game all day too and attack the source as you're doing. You say terrorist numbers and I attack your source as being from a corrupt, sociopathic, megalomaniac, hell bent on taking down democracy in Israel and installing himself as a dictator. The truth is, we don't seem to have great numbers out of Gaza, from an independent, non-Ministry of Health source. I don't know how accurate the MoH numbers really are. I'd be almost certain that Hamas' MoH is inflating numbers and putting a spin on them to make things look as dire as possible. I'd be almost certain there are many hundreds, maybe even thousands, or terrorists from Hamas lumped into the growing death toll. I also do not trust what Bibi's government is putting out either. Netanyahu has a reason to prolong this war as long as possible because he feels it will make him a popular, war-time President. He wants to be the Bush after 9/11 or Putin now in Ukraine. So the longer this goes and the more bad guys the IDF is alleged to have killed, the better it is for Bibi's political career. What I do believe though, because I see it on news coverage daily, is that far too many innocent civilians and especially children, are falling victim to this war in Gaza. Hundreds-of-thousands are being displaced from their homes and not being given basic human necessities. Many will die of hunger and starvation as a result of not getting basic aid and from a prolonged war. Some of that is on Hamas and some of that is on Bibi and Israel. Hamas is literally stealing aid from it's citizens. Hamas uses citizens as human shields. They hide hostages in hospitals. This is exactly what Hamas wanted. Leftists only care about ceasefires when it's Jews fighting back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 49 minutes ago, chasfh said: I’m asking where the 14,000 you provided is, the one you said gets posted and is easy to find... So a couple things: 1) Sorry, I thought that was ONE number from the IDF but it is actually TWO numbers and the second part is harder to find. I thought it was all IDF but I think my memory failed me and the 11K was IDF and the other 3K was from some other analytical report that I can't remember... 2) The numbers obviously change daily so that is not ONE link. I do have a link to the IDF website: https://www.idf.il/en/ But... you would still have to search for the correct report that contains the new numbers, and that changes all the time. Weekly or daily whenever they update. It's not just ONE link. I actually have an easier time searching Google to get someone (like Jerusalem Post...) quoting them. But again, they (number of deaths) still change often so not just one link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 2 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: I would state that the IDF's numbers are probably EXACTLY the same as Gaza Health... IN TOTAL. As you said, IDF is not counting the civilian deaths. I have never had a problem with the Health Ministries "total" number of casualty numbers. My problem has always been that they do not report any combatant deaths, which leads to the conflation of all deaths being civilian, which they are NOT. And then Tater or someone else comes in upset about all the civilian deaths. When that is ABSOLUTELY not truth. That being your opinion, then I’m not sure exactly what it is we are debating here. I’m neither pro-Israel nor pro-Hamas. If I’m pro anything here, it’s pro the everyday Israeli and Palestinian people and pro their ability to live normal, mundane, everyday lives if they choose, as we in America have the luxury of choosing. But the main thing I am pro all the time is the truth. All I want is the truth. Just give me some truth. And I resent people and organizations that obfuscate and ignore the truth in the service of obvious agendas, and that’s obviously what’s going on here. And yes, I will say it: on both sides. 2 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: Almost ALL countries differentiate between military and civilian deaths. Those that do not, or distort the numbers: Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, Hamas, and other similar countries/ organizations. There's a theme there. There’s a very obvious example country missing here. If what we both believe is true—that the Israel and Palestinian numbers match up really closely—then I would say that, yes, I find Israel’s approach to reporting casualties to be more offensive, because their numbers are pretending the civilian deaths didn’t even happen. Palestinian numbers may not break out operative deaths from civilian deaths, and that’s bad, but at least they appear to be including all deaths, instead of pretending some of them are not even worth reporting on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 2 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: So a couple things: 1) Sorry, I thought that was ONE number from the IDF but it is actually TWO numbers and the second part is harder to find. I thought it was all IDF but I think my memory failed me and the 11K was IDF and the other 3K was from some other analytical report that I can't remember... 2) The numbers obviously change daily so that is not ONE link. I do have a link to the IDF website: https://www.idf.il/en/ But... you would still have to search for the correct report that contains the new numbers, and that changes all the time. Weekly or daily whenever they update. It's not just ONE link. I actually have an easier time searching Google to get someone (like Jerusalem Post...) quoting them. But again, they (number of deaths) still change often so not just one link. In other words, IDF does not report numbers regularly and they don’t make it easy to find, as you previously claimed (or is it more like exclaimed? 😉), because even you yourself can’t find it. I like to think that I’m a savvier news consumer than the average bear, but I am not going to jump through endless hoops looking for whatever number IDF wants to world to know about. If they’re not making it easy to find, and not regularly reporting it to the world’s media so it can appear alongside the Hamas number, then maybe there’s a reason Israel doesn’t want to make it easy to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) IDF has a website. They post regular updates on the war, not just deaths. The have daily reports of how many Hamas terrorists were killed. The last day I found a total was January 9th but they post daily numbers. The link was posted already. Guess that's too many hoops. Edited February 15 by Motown Bombers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 WSJ- DUBAI—Egyptian authorities, fearful that an Israeli military push further into southern Gaza will set off a flood of refugees, are building an 8-square-mile walled enclosure in the Sinai Desert near the border, according to Egyptian officials and security analysts. For weeks, Egypt has sought to bolster security along the frontier to keep Palestinians out, deploying soldiers and armored vehicles and reinforcing fences. The massive new compound is part of contingency plans if large numbers of Gazans do manage to get in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 All these other Middle Eastern countries care so much about Palestine but won't let them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 17 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: IDF has a website. They post regular updates on the war, not just deaths. The have daily reports of how many Hamas terrorists were killed. The last day I found a total was January 9th but they post daily numbers. The link was posted already. Guess that's too many hoops. Yes, it is too many hoops! Everybody, including you, me, and the IDF, knows people don't go through hoops to seek out this kind of information! That's exactly my point! If IDF wanted us to know how many people they killed, they would be making it easy for us to get that information by providing it to major media sources, not hard by burying it somewhere in their website—that is, if it's even there. If you're instead telling me it's incumbent upon me to scour their website to look for it, then you've already lost the argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 1 minute ago, chasfh said: Yes, it is too many hoops! Everybody, including you, me, and the IDF, knows people don't go through hoops to seek out this kind of information! That's exactly my point! If IDF wanted us to know how many people they killed, they would be making it easy for us to get that information by providing it to major media sources, not hard by burying it somewhere in their website—that is, if it's even there. If you're instead telling me it's incumbent upon me to scour their website to look for it, then you've already lost the argument. I easily found it and provided you with a link. I'm sorry clicking a link is too difficult for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) Funny thing is you want major media sources to have it and they have an entire website with all their press releases on it. The whole site is literally everything about the war. It was set up specifically for information about the war. They also made the whole damn thing in English so you don't have to jump through hoops. Edited February 15 by Motown Bombers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Funnier thing is, I don't dig through their website. I read major media news sources. And hey, newsflash: so does everyone else. IDF are obviously not trying to spread the word, I guess expecting everyone to come to their website to pull it out if anyone wants to. Go ahead and blame the mainstream media for not going and pulling that, and I'd concede you would have a point. But know too that even the flame-throwing right-wing media sites, the ones that hate Biden, hate the Democrats, despise the mainstream media and all of that, such as Fox and Newsmax and OAN, are not even reporting this IDF number, and these are websites that are purportedly on Israel's side. They are instead reporting the Hamas number. You'd think they'd be motivated enough to parrot the Israel-right-or-wrong line to go in and pull that number from the IDF website. Maybe all these news organizations and right-wing websites are just pretend journalists and they laugh off real journalism as being a big crock while they clink glasses of Cliquot at or Jean-Georges or Le Bernardin or Per Se. Or maybe, just maybe, they think the IDF number is full of ****. Hey, could be anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 I found the link to the website through mainstream media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 PBS reporting how many Hamas terrorist Israel has killed citing Israel. Is PBS mainstream media? Israeli airstrikes kill dozens of Palestinians in Rafah as military rescues 2 hostages | PBS NewsHour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 NBC reporting how many Hamas soldiers per Israel were killed. Up to 9,000 Hamas fighters killed or captured, IDF says (nbcnews.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 1 hour ago, chasfh said: That being your opinion, then I’m not sure exactly what it is we are debating here. I’m neither pro-Israel nor pro-Hamas. If I’m pro anything here, it’s pro the everyday Israeli and Palestinian people and pro their ability to live normal, mundane, everyday lives if they choose, as we in America have the luxury of choosing. But the main thing I am pro all the time is the truth. All I want is the truth. Just give me some truth. And I resent people and organizations that obfuscate and ignore the truth in the service of obvious agendas, and that’s obviously what’s going on here. And yes, I will say it: on both sides. You are making one mistake here. I agree with the top part. But the IDF is a military organization. It is NOT their job to report on Gazan civilian deaths. Their ONLY objective is to complete their MILITARY objectives. They report military deaths/ casualties. Their own and the "enemies". That's it. That's where you are making a mistake. You are trying to conflate the IDF's military objective with an all-encompassing report. I look at the Gazan Health Ministry as reporting all Gazan deaths/ casualties. They actually do a good job of that. But the do not report military deaths under the orders of Hamas (the Health Ministry IS Hamas). Therefore, I go to the IDF numbers for military deaths. It really is NOT that hard to find these numbers. What hoops are you referring to? If this doesn't pop up as your number one choice you just give up? That's it? You don't make any more effort than that? You say you're interested in the truth. Really? You don't look for it very hard. Also... Are the IDF numbers perfect? No. They are estimates because in battlefield damage with all the destruction verification is difficult at best. And in deeper tunnels, even more difficult. But they do have modern tech, including infra-red tech, drones, etc., etc. So I know that the Health Ministry is reporting 28,500 Gazan deaths. Zero military. I know the IDF is reporting 11,000 Hamas fighter deaths. I'll even ignore the 3K assessment report on non-combatants tied to Hamas activities that are estimated to have also perished. 11,000 Hamas fighter deaths (more or less) out of Health Ministry reported deaths of 28,500 gives me a rough idea of a much more TRUTHFUL scenario that you are trying to pass off here. Which I would call a lack of effort. 1 hour ago, chasfh said: ... If what we both believe is true—that the Israel and Palestinian numbers match up really closely—then I would say that, yes, I find Israel’s approach to reporting casualties to be more offensive, because ... The IDF's approach is NOT more offensive. It is NOT their job to report Gazan civilian casualties.. they are NOT ignoring them... it is not their JOB to report on them. I just wanted to reiterate that. They are a MILITARY organization and are ONLY going to report military deaths or casualties: their own, and Hamas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) 33 minutes ago, chasfh said: ... Go ahead and blame the mainstream media for not going and pulling that, and I'd concede you would have a point. But know too that even the flame-throwing right-wing media sites, the ones that hate Biden, hate the Democrats, despise the mainstream media and all of that, such as Fox and Newsmax and OAN, are not even reporting this IDF number, and these are websites that are purportedly on Israel's side. They are instead reporting the Hamas number. You'd think they'd be motivated enough to parrot the Israel-right-or-wrong line to go in and pull that number from the IDF website. Maybe all these news organizations and right-wing websites are just ... Lazy. Maybe they are all just lazy. But then again.. the media has NEVER been found to be lazy... amiright? Me? I prefer the.... Truth. Edited February 15 by 1984Echoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Is Forbes mainstream enough? They have the link to the IDF website. https://www.forbes.com/sites/erictegler/2024/01/17/the-idfs-interim-data-report-shows-the-scale-of-the-israel-hamas-war/?sh=783de8ab5f16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-02-16/ty-article/idf-terrorists-detained-in-khan-yunis-hospital-hamas-patients-died-due-to-power-outage/0000018d-b261-de6d-a1fd-bbe5d1d20000 Haaretz | Israel News Israeli Army Says Oct. 7 Terrorists Detained in Khan Yunis Nasser Hospital The Israeli army reported on Friday that forces operating in the Nasser Hospital in southern Gaza have arrested dozens of suspects, including over 20 terrorists who took part in the October 7 massacre. The Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry says four patients died Friday morning due to a power outage that caused a cut in oxygen supply in the hospital, ...staff warned earlier on Friday that generators have stopped working... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 On 2/15/2024 at 7:41 AM, oblong said: Tliab has a seat for life in this district if she wants it. Unless they change the lines. She's pretty much got a solid square, 8 mile except for a bit that jets up into Southfield, that covers Dearborn, Dearborn Hts, Westland, Garden City, stretches west to canton and stops just north of I 94 to the South. The only area that could dent her would be "Lily White Livonia" which is still a thing. The Arab/Muslim community is no longer just Dearborn. They've moved along the Ford/Warren Ave corridor going west. So many churches have closed and property bought to open up another Mosque. The commission is being pressed perhaps even legally to change the lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 3 hours ago, pfife said: The commission is being pressed perhaps even legally to change the lines. I haven’t been paying attention to the specifics. Shri’s district is pretty snaky. Goes thru Detroit to the GP area then back west south of Tliab near me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.