1984Echoes Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 4 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said: 95% of the far left have never served or even been near a war zone. Fun fact, you don't get to call timeout and do a body count. I wonder why none of the surrounding Muslim countries are allowing any refugees in? Everyone is outraged but just sit on their hands... I wonder why Hamas hasn't simply offered their unconditional surrender? Back in November when Israel had already shown how resolute they were? Hamas could have prevented nearly ALL this death & destruction by simply giving up. My question to anyone and everyone is: Why hasn't Hamas just given up and stopped all this bloodshed of their brethren? (A: Who they love so much.) (OR B: is it that they want to run another "Butcher Israeli's Mission" because they love doing that so much more than they love the lives of their brethren? Who they could actually give a **** about, btw.) The correct answer is B by the way. Sorry to hand out the cheat code so easily... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 4 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said: Where in the main stream media that you rely on have you seen facts of said indiscriminate bombings? Yes, indiscriminate is not correct. But it's a good word to use in order to be outraged for invalid reasons... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 A (former diplomat) diplomatic reader on WHY other Arab/ Muslim nations do NOT want anything to do with Palestinian refugees: https://www.yahoo.com/news/truly-people-without-land-refuge-100000604.html Arab States Are Giving Palestinians the Cold Shoulder. Here’s Why. Michael Hirsh Wed, February 21, 2024 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Sensible Palestinian Leadership (IMO): https://www.yahoo.com/news/palestinian-leaders-needed-gaza-war-151422334.html New Palestinian leaders needed after Gaza war: opposition figure Guillaume Lavallee Wed, February 21, 2024 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 A decent, honorable leader of Jewish Trump's fascistic Likud Party proud of the death and destruction Isreal has caused. Our most cherished ally in the world. The country we have a special relationship with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 13 hours ago, Motown Bombers said: I just think it's telling that leftists have so much concern over this foreign conflict than any other. Especially in the Gaza War thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 You can't negotiate with fascistic terrorists like this member of the Likud party and Israeli government . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 There are crazies in every single country. Yes, even ours. And some of those crazies have acceded to positions of power. Did you think this was some kind of startling news? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 If you think that's crazy, wait till you hear about the leaders of Palestine. They call themselves Hamas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 8 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: If you think that's crazy, wait till you hear about the leaders of Palestine. They call themselves Hamas. And pointedly love to butcher Israeli children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Video of Hamas and civilians in Gaza celebrating dead Israelis by brutalizing their corpses in Gaza came across my feed on Linkedin of all places and I wish I hadn't seen. All these Hamasholes demand a ceasefire from Israel and nothing from Hamas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Video of Hamas and civilians in Gaza celebrating dead Israelis by brutalizing their corpses in Gaza came across my feed on Linkedin of all places and I wish I hadn't seen. All these Hamasholes demand a ceasefire from Israel and nothing from Hamas. Yeah but the mainstream media is not posting it so it can't possibly be true. I will hold my judgment until the Hamas mouthpiece claims the soldiers were Indiscriminatly cutting off baby heads and setting their families on fire. Edited February 22 by Tigeraholic1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) If the shoe was on the other foot, and we suffered a major terrorist attack while Trump was President, would you want a country, Israel or otherwise, to give Trump unconditional military aid and allow Trump to operate with little restraint or without a ceasefire in place? I would guess that most here would not want Trump to have unconditional military support, nor would they want to allow him to operate militarily with minimal restraint. Furthermore, would the decent-minded, non-right wing people of that country giving us the unconditioned aid want their tax dollars going to support a man like Trump? I bet they wouldn't. So why the double standard for Netanyahu? We know full well that Bibi is the Jewish/Israeli version of Donald Trump. He is a crook, a conman, a liar, a narcissist, a racist, and a wannabe dictator. He is a dangerous man, who posses the same direct threat to democracy as Trump does in this country. The man tried to hijack his nation's high court and singlehandedly change its judicial system to avoid prosecution and keep himself and the Likud in power as if he was the dictator of Isreal. Centrists and center-left types who oppose Trump would be going bananas in this country if Trump attempted that same maneuver that Bibi did in his judicial system. And rightfully so I might add. But when it comes to Bibi, you have the centrists and center-left falling all over themselves, talking about what a special relationship we have with Israel. And how we love her and support her unconditionally. WTF, Netanyahu is almost a mirror image of Trump. Why the heck would we support a woefully corrupt, jackboot thug and wannabe dictator like that with unconditional love, support, and military aid. This is the guy whom we consider our most cherished ally and have a special relationship with? If we're willing to support Netanyahu and his Likud government in this way than why not support Viktor Orban or Alexander Lukashenko too? What's the difference between a Bibi and those two? You can, and must, condemn the brutal and barbaric terrorist attacks carried out by Hamas on October 7th. You can, and you must, condemn any use of human shields, bunkers under hospitals/schools/residential areas, weapons caches near homes and in mosques. But for god sakes, you can condemn all of that without supporting Bibi unconditionally and intern, supporting the Likud Party in the same way. Edited February 26 by Mr.TaterSalad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 If the Canadian Mounties parachuted into lollapalooza and raped and beheaded festival goers, pillaged the south side of Chicago and burned people alive in their homes, took hundreds captive, and paraded the corpses and severed heads of the people they killed through the streets of Toronto, I would expect a swift and forceful response. Like Israel, the US doesn't need help from another country to level Canada to the ground and I would be damn sure no terrorists supporting Canucks halfway around the world would influence my response. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Nobody is supporting Bibi unconditionally. The people of Israel will need to remove him. In no ****ing way what happens in Israel should impact who we vote for in the US. I really wish these progressives would show as much compassion for Ukraine as they do Hamas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: If the Canadian Mounties parachuted into lollapalooza and raped and beheaded festival goers, pillaged the south side of Chicago and burned people alive in their homes, took hundreds captive, and paraded the corpses and severed heads of the people they killed through the streets of Toronto, I would expect a swift and forceful response. Like Israel, the US doesn't need help from another country to level Canada to the ground and I would be damn sure no terrorists supporting Canucks halfway around the world would influence my response. You missed the point completely but I know you did so on purpose. By giving unconditioned military aid to the Netanyahu government you are supporting Netanyahu unconditionally. You are supporting him regardless of his attempts to overthrow democracy in Israel and turn that country into a dictatorship. Which is what he was trying to do prior to October 7th and is still in all likelihood, trying to do now. He is the Israeli version of Donald Trump. The man has autocratic and fascist tendencies. He wants to be Israel's dictator and that is not really up for debate amongst most honest people who support democratic values and democracy. But ok, let's play the game you want to. If people gathered at a synagogue in Southfield and said we're going to develop a plan to take over the eastside of Dearborn, and then marched into that area of Dearborn with guns, and told people they have 72 hours to vacate their homes or face violence or death, I'd be pretty pissed about that too. Just as I am upset about what happened on October 7th. Israeli settlers have been marching in and encroaching upon their Palestinian neighbors for decades and killing hundreds of them. Consider this report from the UN from just last year. The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) reported, from January to September 2023, Israeli settlers and forces killed 189 Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and wounded 8,192. The UNOCHA said on average, there are 3 cases of settlers attacking Palestinians in the West Bank of the Jordan River every single day, resulting in the killing and injuring of Palestinians, harming their property, and preventing them from reaching their land, workplace, family, and friends. This doesn't justify October 7th in any way, shape or form, but merely points out the settler violence that Netanyahu has continued to allow and not condemn on the Israeli side of this horrible conflict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Nobody is supporting Bibi unconditionally. The people of Israel will need to remove him. In no ****ing way what happens in Israel should impact who we vote for in the US. I really wish these progressives would show as much compassion for Ukraine as they do Hamas. This simply isn't true. The military aid that we have given, up to this point, has had almost no conditions placed upon it. Even as Netanyahu is out there saying that Israel has the right to control from the river to the sea. Even as he has come out and explicitly said time and again Palestinians have no right to statehood or personhood as a Palestinian people. Whether it be money for the iron dome or direct military aid to use on weaponry, munitions, or transportation, that aid has had little in the way of condition placed upon it. That means has for the most part been, unconditional support. Furthermore, even with a corrupt dictator-lite in power like Bibi, we have US politicians running around (in Israel no less) talking about how they are our special ally and how we need to cherish the Israeli democracy. What democracy exactly are we cherishing? The one that Netanyahu is actively trying to overthrow? Would you want an elected leader of another parliament running around the US saying we have a special relationship with Trump as his MAGA supporters are storming the capital? Edited February 26 by Mr.TaterSalad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 yes the Palestinians have been screwed, but how you chose to fight back matters. Gandhi got the Brits out of India without acting like Hamas, Mandela broke the Apartheid government without acting like Hamas, MLK fought hard to keep his movement non-violent, rejecting the Panther's militant direction. There is a level at which it is unavoidable that populations have to be responsible for the outcomes in their midst. It is never fair on the individual level, but that is how the world works. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Biden has said there will be conditions on military. He has been pretty clear about. Just stop with this unconditional aid. Biden has never said it. Playing your game, if Dearborn had invaded Southfield and raped women, beheaded police, burned people alive in their homes, took hundreds of hostages back to Dearborn, paraded the corpses and severed heads of the people they killed down Michigan Ave to cheering fans, I sure as **** would expect a response and I would be begging Detroit to let in refugees instead of demanding Southfield just agree to a ceasefire that Dearborn broke and won't agree to and just go home. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Israel has the military capability to completely level Gaza. They have nuclear weapons. They do not need US support. Most of the military aid they get from the US is for the Iron Dome and not even for weapons. I love when tankies think the US is completely supporting the Israeli military. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said: yes the Palestinians have been screwed, but how you chose to fight back matters. Gandhi got the Brits out of India without acting like Hamas, Mandela broke the Apartheid government without acting like Hamas, MLK fought hard to keep his movement non-violent, rejecting the Panther's militant direction. There is a level at which it is unavoidable that populations have to be responsible for the outcomes in their midst. It is never fair on the individual level, but that is how the world works. This is a fair and valid point. Frankly one I agree with. I do condemn the brutal, barbaric acts of Hamas and so too should anyone, anywhere, on any side of the political spectrum. I think the Palestinian people should use non-violence to achieve their nation state and to achieve equity. I do condemn anyone who wishes to wipe Israel and the Jewish people off the map. But until only recently, among many nations in the west, criticism of Israel and settler violence has been tepid and criticism of Palestinians has been much more fervent. Do I wish Israel was being led by a good and decent man like the late Yitzhak Rabin at a moment like this. Hell yes I do. I think the conflict would be in a far better space than where we are at today. I'd also feel morally better about my country support a Rabin-led, Labor Party government with aid as well. But that simply isn't the case. Israel is now being led by a wannabe dictator, who spits in the face of a leader like Rabin. In-fact, Rabin wasn't hardline enough for the right-wing of Israel and so one of their militants assassinated the man for not being militant enough towards the Palestinians. And Netanyahu is a cooperator and complicit in Rabin being murdered in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Once again no Middle Eastern country is taking in any refugees. Egypt not only is closing the border but fortifying it. Poland took in over 2 million refugees when Russia invaded Ukraine. I would more than welcome the US sending tons of aid to Egypt to handle refugees. Instead they all want Israel to just give up and use the hostages as concubines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Hamasholes were harassing Jerry Seinfeld. It's basically find your local Jew and blame them for Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: ... So why the double standard for Netanyahu? We know full well that Bibi is ... You can, and must, condemn the brutal and barbaric terrorist attacks carried out by Hamas on October 7th. You can, and you must, condemn any use of human shields, bunkers under hospitals/schools/residential areas, weapons caches near homes and in mosques. But for god sakes, you can condemn all of that without ... Not to disrupt your train of thought here... But I am COMPLETELY ignoring this "Bibi" fellow and concentrating on other, more important issues. Specifically, I could give a **** about Bibi. What I care about is: 1) That Israel is able to live in peace without further terrorist attack from Gazan Hamas Palestinian murderers (however you want to name them). That is EXTREMELY high on my list. 2) That Hamas terrorists hand over all of the hostages they've taken. No "but, but, but" here. They are contemptible ****ing terrorists for this. Hand them over. 3) That Hamas no longer rules Gaza. Gazans deserve better government. They don't deserve an idiot "David" throwing rocks and missiles at an overwhelming "Goliath" on the other side of the fence.. literally, INVITING an invasion. They don't deserve a terrorist government that STEALS 50% of incoming goods (food, concrete, steel, gasoline, medicines, money, etc...) to line their own pockets and fund the idiotic idea that they can create tunnels and bombs that will allow them to defeat an Army of Goliaths. Are they ****ing stupid? Or what? 4) Gazans deserve better. They deserve an immediate ceasefire (with an exchange of Israeli women & children hostages for Hamas terrorists) so they can get immediate humanitarian aid into Gaza. They're desperate at this point, Israel needs to consider this desperation. They deserve a land without Israel overlords (like they've had since 2004) but also without a terrorist government that INVITES the overlords to invade their land on a constant basis because Hamas refuses to stay on their ****ing side of the fence. They deserve to live in peace, with plenty of food, freedoms within their territory, good government, good (work) opportunities, oh, and good beaches too. 5) Israelis deserve better. They deserve to live their lives without fear of being murdered in their homes. All of those issues are prime concerns. Not once have I mentioned Bibi in those concerns. What is with your fascination with Bibi? Who gives a **** about Bibi? It's the Israeli's and Gazans that I am concerned about. That's it. Edited February 26 by 1984Echoes 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: If the Canadian Mounties parachuted into lollapalooza and raped and beheaded festival goers, pillaged the south side of Chicago and burned people alive in their homes, took hundreds captive, and paraded the corpses and severed heads of the people they killed through the streets of Toronto, I would expect a swift and forceful response. Like Israel, the US doesn't need help from another country to level Canada to the ground and I would be damn sure no terrorists supporting Canucks halfway around the world would influence my response. PERFECT!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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