Tigeraholic1 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 11 hours ago, pfife said: Biden bypassed congress twice. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/the-biden-administration-once-again-bypasses-congress-on-an-emergency-weapons-sale-to-israel#:~:text=WASHINGTON (AP) — For the,Gaza under increasing international criticism. Dang dictator Biden strikes again!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 11 hours ago, Motown Bombers said: I never hear what Israel was supposed to do other than just give up. I mean, Netanyahu could have chosen not to prop up Hamas for years.... but yes, hindsight is 20/20. Right now though, demand Hamas give up the remaining hostages/bodies and a cease fire starts. Israel backs out of Gaza but maybe they could demand the UN get involved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 11 hours ago, pfife said: Biden bypassed congress twice. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/the-biden-administration-once-again-bypasses-congress-on-an-emergency-weapons-sale-to-israel#:~:text=WASHINGTON (AP) — For the,Gaza under increasing international criticism. This is not real. All of you folks get your news from unfettered sources and I've been told time and time again that Biden can't do anything in regards to getting weapons to Ukraine, it's the GOP that's at fault. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 8 minutes ago, ewsieg said: I mean, Netanyahu could have chosen not to prop up Hamas for years.... but yes, hindsight is 20/20. Right now though, demand Hamas give up the remaining hostages/bodies and a cease fire starts. Israel backs out of Gaza but maybe they could demand the UN get involved. I am pretty sure Israel has made that offer with regard to hostages and a cease fire but Hamas doesn't actually want a cease fire. They don't care if Palestenians die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 8 minutes ago, ewsieg said: This is not real. All of you folks get your news from unfettered sources and I've been told time and time again that Biden can't do anything in regards to getting weapons to Ukraine, it's the GOP that's at fault. Biden has went around congress to supply aid to Ukraine. Like with Israel, there is a limit on how much he can do without congress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Biden is even using Greece to launder weapons to Ukraine. Biden Overcomes GOP Ukraine Aid Block by Routing Weapons Via Greece (businessinsider.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 10 minutes ago, oblong said: I am pretty sure Israel has made that offer with regard to hostages and a cease fire but Hamas doesn't actually want a cease fire. They don't care if Palestenians die. That is true, but Hamas also wanted insight in to what that would mean after the hostages are back and were given nothing. Cease fire for a few days and it starts all over again? I'm not saying it'll work, but if it comes with world backing that Israel leaves Gaza, presumably for good, that might change their opinion. With Netanyahu in charge, it's a moot point anyway as he would never agree to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 7 minutes ago, ewsieg said: With Netanyahu in charge, it's a moot point anyway as he would never agree to that. Netanyahu is a bad guy, but you could have a Labor PM in charge of Israel and it would still be a non-starter for Israel to give up security control over Gaza now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 38 minutes ago, ewsieg said: I mean, Netanyahu could have chosen not to prop up Hamas for years.... but yes, hindsight is 20/20. We don't talk about that. We don't talk about Qatari money that he allowed, and encouraged, to come through Israel and be funneled to Hamas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) 32 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Netanyahu is a bad guy, but you could have a Labor PM in charge of Israel and it would still be a non-starter for Israel to give up security control over Gaza now. I think a Yitzhak Rabin or a more mild-mannered leader, Labor or otherwise, would have handled this war differently and may not have acted with the unrestrained aggression that Bibi's IDF has acted with. Well, Sharon as a former military general, may have acted as aggressive as Bibi has. I don't think a different leader would use this war as a political, PR prop to keep themselves in power and rally support behind them. They also may not have funneled Qatari money to prop up Hamas in the first place as Netanyahu did. Netanyahu needs Hamas as a foil and political fodder to deflect from his authoritarian tendencies and from his attempted judicial coup. I don't think Meir, Rabin, Sharon, Peres, etc. would have propped Hamas up so they could look like a tough guy and use them as a political fodder the way Bibi has. None of those aforementioned Prime Ministers even attempted a judicial coup to install themselves as dictator of Israel and avoid criminal prosecution the way Bibi did either. Edited February 28 by Mr.TaterSalad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 I still don't know what the appropriate response from Israel was supposed to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, Tigeraholic1 said: This is the second time you have used this exact terminology and just like last time I ask where are the facts to back this claim? Here's something from today in CNN, just today. https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2024/02/middleeast/israel-bombing-family-gaza-investigation-intl-cmd/ Here's something from Amnesty International, a non-Palestinian organization, earlier this month: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/israel-opt-new-evidence-of-unlawful-israeli-attacks-in-gaza-causing-mass-civilian-casualties-amid-real-risk-of-genocide/ This is an opinion from an Israeli journalist published in a newspaper published in Israel in Hebrew and targeted to Israelis—you'll need to provide your email address to read the whole thing: https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-12-28/ty-article-opinion/.premium/sanctifying-the-indiscriminate-killing-in-gaza-is-israels-second-defeat/0000018c-ace3-d22d-a3dd-bdfbb0fe0000 Will this do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I still don't know what the appropriate response from Israel was supposed to be. This Vox article does as good a job as any that I've seen outlining what a reasonably appropriate, self defense response could be. One that works to respond to the threat of Hamas and limit civilian casualties. I'm no military expert and have never even so much as served our country, much less been a general, mapping out battle plans and a tactical effort. From the reading and research I have done, Vox article and otherwise, there are a few things that could be done differently. Not propping up Hamas with Qatari money and financing them as Netanyahu did in the years leading up to the situation is one thing. But I digress from that point. Not cutting off water and electricity to millions of people in Gaza would be another thing I wouldn't have done. Taking a more tactical approach, whatever that really looks like, and going more after Hamas leadership, funding, and weaponry than engaging in an all out, block by block assault on Gaza is yet another. I wouldn't have told people to go southern Gaza to seek refuge, only to then begin to shell and assault southern portions of Gaza. I would have also made sure I had Egypt on board, in some capacity, to take in some amount of refugees. How you get them on board, I'm not certain, but I would guess there is a financial price that could be paid by Israel and it's allies to do so. I'm ignorant though on the issues of war and tactical battle planning. I just know what I've read and researched. So I hold complete space that I could be naive and flat out wrong here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 14 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: I think a Yitzhak Rabin or a more mild-mannered leader, Labor or otherwise, would have handled this war differently and ... I think you would be greatly surprised. People aren't as "mild-mannered" as you think they are, after they've experienced butchery against their people. I think in fact, you are 100% wrong. Mild-mannered" Rabin would've used the EXACT SAME HAMMMER that Bibi is now using. Don't kid yourself. You're not fooling us if that's what you're trying to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Just now, 1984Echoes said: I think you would be greatly surprised. People aren't as "mild-mannered" as you think they are, after they've experienced butchery against their people. I think in fact, you are 100% wrong. Mild-mannered" Rabin would've used the EXACT SAME HAMMMER that Bibi is now using. Don't kid yourself. You're not fooling us if that's what you're trying to do. A right wing nut, with Bibi's backing, literally murdered Rabin because of his peace offerings towards the Palestinians. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: .... They also may not have funneled Qatari money to prop up Hamas in the first place as Netanyahu did... The Qatari money wasn't used to prop up Hamas. Complete BS. Hamas can't exist without Qatari money? That's what you're trying to peddle right now? Israel policy to allow Qatari money to slip though into Gaza was a POLICY decision thinking that Hamas might not conduct an attack on Israeli soil. (Almost like a bribe.. obviously, that didn't work.) It had absolutely ZERO to do with creating a foil for Bibi's own purposes. Dude, you are straight up fricking LYING to try and promote your agenda. Could you please STOP? At least stop LYING? Edited February 28 by 1984Echoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 I don't know what Israel could do differently but I'm a loud tankie and going to say they should have something differently anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 3 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: A right wing nut, with Bibi's backing, literally murdered Rabin because of his peace offerings towards the Palestinians. Which has absolutely ZERO to do with what I posted and you quoted. Try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) 3 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: The Qatari money wasn't used to prop up Hamas. Complete BS. NYT: ‘Buying Quiet’: Inside the Israeli Plan That Propped Up Hamas Quote For years, the Qatari government had been sending millions of dollars a month into the Gaza Strip — money that helped prop up the Hamas government there. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel not only tolerated those payments, he had encouraged them. During his meetings in September with the Qatari officials, according to several people familiar with the secret discussions, the Mossad chief, David Barnea, was asked a question that had not been on the agenda: Did Israel want the payments to continue? Mr. Netanyahu’s government had recently decided to continue the policy, so Mr. Barnea said yes. The Israeli government still welcomed the money from Doha. Allowing the payments — billions of dollars over roughly a decade — was a gamble by Mr. Netanyahu that a steady flow of money would maintain peace in Gaza, the eventual launching point of the Oct. 7 attacks, and keep Hamas focused on governing, not fighting. The Qatari payments, while ostensibly a secret, have been widely known and discussed in the Israeli news media for years. Mr. Netanyahu’s critics disparage them as part of a strategy of “buying quiet,” and the policy is in the middle of a ruthless reassessment following the attacks. Mr. Netanyahu has lashed back at that criticism, calling the suggestion that he tried to empower Hamas “ridiculous.” Looks like it was. So whose LYING now? Edited February 28 by Mr.TaterSalad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) Yigal Amir, Rabin’s assassin, had some of his family members met with Alan Dershowitz in an effort to persuade Dershowitz to represent him in his case. The grounds on which Amir wanted to claim a defense are interesting. Dershowitz opted not to take the case. Edited February 28 by 1776 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I don't know what Israel could do differently but I'm a loud tankie and going to say they should have something differently anyways. I don't give a rats about civilian casualties, so I'm just going to pretend that all Palestinian people are part of Hamas and that they had it coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 1 minute ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: I don't give a rats about civilian casualties, so I'm just going to pretend that all Palestinian people are part of Hamas and that they had it coming. The Palestinian people are more important than the Jews who were killed and being held in Gaza. Tankies are so passionate about that they are willing to tank democracy in the US over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Weird how tankies seem to care very little about Syria or Ukrainians but those Jews hit back and we have to threaten democracy in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 11 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: NYT: ‘Buying Quiet’: Inside the Israeli Plan That Propped Up Hamas Looks like it was. So whose LYING now? You just quoted EXACTLY what I SAID. Not what YOU said: which was Bibi did it to create a foil to prop himself up. Which is a LIE. But as a "deterrent" or "bribe" to try to convince Hamas to NOT attack Israel. Try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Yeah, I don't know what else Israel could have done in response to a single terrorist attack other than bomb Gaza into rubble and kill some 30,000 people and displace a million others so far, mostly civilians, along the way. Sure, the offensive will create more Muslim radicals, but hey, that's not our problem since we didn't start the war and have no involvement in it, and besides, that just means Israel gets to kill the new ones, too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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