Jump to content

Dem implosion

ewsieg

By ewsieg
in Politics

 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 158
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

Jim Cowan
Jim Cowan

Here is the view from the rest of the world:  under the previous administration the control of your southern border was a humanitarian catastrophe.  The callousness and cruelty were beyond comprehensi

chasfh
chasfh

Of course, Trump has his hand-picked “the best people” around him to shore up his own cognitive disabilities. 😏

Archie
Archie

Election security is not voter suppresion. Nobody is being told they can't vote and polls are open longer. Its funny the democrats talk about wanting to save democracy but nothing will destroy it fast

Posted Images

chasfh Grand Master

chasfh

Posted
Posted
  On 11/4/2021 at 1:52 PM, Jim Cowan said:

Here is the view from the rest of the world:  under the previous administration the control of your southern border was a humanitarian catastrophe.  The callousness and cruelty were beyond comprehension.

Expand  

If you are even a casual observer of American history, you will realize that callousness and cruelty is the point.

1984Echoes Grand Master

1984Echoes

Posted
Posted
  On 11/4/2021 at 3:29 AM, ewsieg said:

I think you had a GOP candidate that was able to shy away from Trump and still win the primary.  That is not going to be an everyday issue next year.  He ran against a guy that from a national standpoint, played the right calls and tried to make it a referendum on Trump, just didn't work as the candidate was able to shy away from Trump publicly.

That said, if Biden was able to get his infrastructure bill pushed through, and right now instead of the divide in the dem party, along with the hijacking of the infrasctructure bill, wasn't front and center in the news, but rather a passed bill that McAullife could point to as democrats making a difference and a united communications front on the BBB bill, explaining why each of the things that Sanders wants are good things, but they are being mindful of the costs and working to ensure only best will be put in, you'd have pulled from that center group and won the election.

Expand  

This is about as close to accurate as is possible.

The only thing I would change is that if both BBB and Infrastructure had passed at least a month before the election then VA would not have been lost. It's as much about the bickering and non-passage of legislation as it is about a want list.

I am assuming your want list is Infrastructure and not necessarily BBB?

Mr.TaterSalad Grand Master

Mr.TaterSalad

Posted
Posted (edited)

I do think there will be Dem midterm implosion if they don't get BBB, Infrastructure, and Voting Rights passed soon. They need to give their candidates red meat and ample time to campaign on a bold economic agenda and a list of accomplishments. I think Gottheimer and his gang of 3 or 4, Sinema and Manchin realize that finally and are coming around. I think once BBB and Infrastructure get passed and people slowly start to feel its effects over the next year the Biden and Dem approvals will rebound. I think it is going to be real hard for Republicans to run on repealing the Child Tax Credit, repealing lower prescription drug prices negotiated through Medicare, repealing penalties on drug companies who cheat their customers, etc.

BBB won't be the political grenade that Obamacare was because it is so broad, wide and sweeping and has more immediate effects on people's lives that the ACA did. Much of the ACA didn't go into effect until 2-3-4 years after it was passed, where as BBB has programs that will begin to have an immediate impact on people's overall quality of life. I feel once BBB passes, as long as it isn't too watered down, and the coverage of Democratic in fighting stops, we'll be doing better.

I do think the remaining items on the table that could hurt Dems are inflation and woke culture around policing. Inflation is obvious, prices are up, people feel squeezed financially, and the President and Dems in Congress get the blame. Defund is obviously different.

I have finally come around to the idea that "Defund the Police" has far more negative effects to the Democratic brand than I previously thought. Where I live we had an election this year. For some anecdotal evidence, all the candidates who won are either Dem or Independent/Dem-leaning. All of the winning candidates were endorsed by the Police Department and the PD sent a mailer out to voters homes touting the candidates they endorsed when absentee ballots were mailed out. 3 of the 4 who won were also endorsed by the Fire Department and they sent a mailer out about it. Yes, people will except things like hiring a Social Worker to deal with domestic/family-related issues, they will except drug-addicted persons getting rehab instead of jail time, or having a Citizen Review Board to have greater police accountability. But public safety is still king among the issues and people want well funded police departments that are capable of producing quick response times when they call 911 for an emergency situation. They will not accept rhetoric about defunding or abolishing police. Even if the defund movements goal is largely to shift more money into public education, public and mental health, and not end policing as we know it, the average person doesn't processes "defund the police" that way. They hear that phrase and think no one is showing up when I call 911.

I dislike Bill Clinton and James Carville, but I do believe they are still right in that "It's the Economy Stupid" and if Democrats stay away from rhetoric around wokeness that people feel controls their speech and defunding police departments and instead focus on a bold economic agenda that's in BBB, they will be able to be more successful in 2022.

Edited by Mr.TaterSalad
Archie Mentor

Archie

Posted
Posted
  On 11/4/2021 at 3:10 PM, Jim Cowan said:

We didn't put your children in cages, and force separations of families which are still in effect.  That comparison is just silly.  You are comparing the nightmare of your southern border to casual tourists being denied entry into Canada. 

We have torrents of illegal immigrants here, people from third world countries who arrive in New York and make their way to the border, walking across from Vermont to Quebec.  We have to accomodate them humanely and let the legal system adjudicate their refugee claims.  

Expand  

That's one of the few good things Obama did.  You can't roll out the red carpet like the current administration has done or there will be over 2 million legal invaders coming in like we have this year.

pfife Grand Master

pfife

Posted
Posted
  On 11/4/2021 at 2:51 PM, Archie said:

If the other countries were so concerned they could have shipped these people from Mexico to their country.  In the US we have laws that include how non-citzens are to enter the country. These laws are in place for a reason and should be followed. I and other American citizen pay taxes. Although I don't have a say in it  I don't want my money going to other countries or their citizens for aid until every American is taken care of first.  I also don't care what any other country thinks of us. We are the greatest country in the world with the greatest fighting forces. These other countries only want our money and our services.  

Did other countries have issue with Canada when they closed the border to the US? How inhumane it was to let us die of covid in the US!

Expand  

Trump unconstitutionally funded his wall when Congress has the power of the purse and refused to do so.   Your selective application of "laws should be followed" is quite telling.

  • Thanks 1
pfife Grand Master

pfife

Posted
Posted

Also, people are allowed to cross the border and apply for asylum for up to 1 year after entering the country.   It's on the immigration website.   

Laws/follow amirite

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
ewsieg Veteran

ewsieg

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 11/4/2021 at 4:07 PM, 1984Echoes said:

This is about as close to accurate as is possible.

The only thing I would change is that if both BBB and Infrastructure had passed at least a month before the election then VA would not have been lost. It's as much about the bickering and non-passage of legislation as it is about a want list.

I am assuming your want list is Infrastructure and not necessarily BBB?

Expand  

Infrastructure is a must, in fact, it's not big enough IMO.  I don't even care about 'paying for it'.  It's an investment in the country.  The BBB, I'm much more lax on spending than I have been in the past.  There are some things, that by themselves, I can understand why they are being called infrastructure.  But as a whole, just looks like a giant wish list.  Add in the fact that i'm not hearing much about how to pay for it and how some of the programs might only be set for a certain amount of years, with congress needing to take action in the future on those.... that's dangerous territory to me.

1984Echoes Grand Master

1984Echoes

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 11/4/2021 at 5:26 PM, Motown Bombers said:

Didn't Democrats give Trump billions for the wall and then he reneged because Ann Coulter threatened his manhood? 

Expand  

They gave him $25 Billion (PS: that was a BI-PARTISAN $25B because Republicans were all for it, and Dems agreed) and Trump turned it down because Steven Miller told him to. Oh yeah, it helped out 250,000 "Dreamers" so fuck them, right Coulter & Miller and your ilk? But... oh wait, that means no $25 Billion for "The Wall" because 250K Dreamers...

Makes perfect white trash bigoted sense, doesn't it?

Edited by 1984Echoes
Archie Mentor

Archie

Posted
Posted
  On 11/4/2021 at 5:25 PM, ewsieg said:

Infrastructure is a must, in fact, it's not big enough IMO.  I don't even care about 'paying for it'.  It's an investment in the country.  The BBB, I'm much more lax on spending than I have been in the past.  There are some things, that by themselves, I can understand why they are being called infrastructure.  But as a whole, just looks like a giant wish list.  Add in the fact that i'm not hearing much about how to pay for it and how some of the programs might only be set for a certain amount of years, with congress needing to take action in the future on those.... that's dangerous territory to me.

Expand  

Biden said not to worry about the cost. In his whispering voice he said it didn't cost anything.  It will be free. 

Jim Cowan Grand Master

Jim Cowan

Posted
Posted
  On 11/4/2021 at 5:49 PM, Archie said:

Obama admin built the cages. It was continued under Trump admin. 

Expand  

OK.  So, it seems like what we are saying is that Obama controlled the border and in fact carried out more deportations than Trump did, but did so without the brutal, barbaric tactics that Trump used, that attracted international outrage.  That being the case, shouldn't we amend your original statement so that it would read that the current administration should admit that the border was managed better under Obama?

Archie Mentor

Archie

Posted
Posted
  On 11/4/2021 at 6:15 PM, Jim Cowan said:

OK.  So, it seems like what we are saying is that Obama controlled the border and in fact carried out more deportations than Trump did, but did so without the brutal, barbaric tactics that Trump used, that attracted international outrage.  That being the case, shouldn't we amend your original statement so that it would read that the current administration should admit that the border was managed better under Obama?

Expand  

Obama did better on the border than Biden and Trump did better than both of them.  So far Biden has been a failure in everything.  I take no pride in that because if he fails then we fail as a country.  We are failing.  As I mentioned in another post, I hope the elections this week will be a wake up call.  Spending trillion plus dollars on "human" infrastructure is a joke.  What the heck is human infrastructure anyway?  Its just another deception of the American people.  Then there is a faction of them that want to end the filibuster and change election laws so they can rig the system.  Hopefully someone in that group can right the ship and come to their senses.

If you live in Canada why would care about our border?  You don't have to deal with these people or have them dumped in your area in the middle of the night.  Are you an American Citizen?

The Ronz Rising Star

The Ronz

Posted
Posted
  On 11/4/2021 at 2:51 PM, Archie said:

In the US we have laws that include how non-citzens are to enter the country. These laws are in place for a reason and should be followed.

Expand  

What "laws?" There are no "laws." To my knowledge there is exactly one law. You are welcome to look it up.

Trump had both houses of Congress during the first two years of his presidency and could have easily changed the law. He chose not to do so.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      292
    • Most Online
      704
    oldeenglishd
    Newest Member
    oldeenglishd
    Joined

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...