Week Fourteen: Detroit Lions (9-3) @ Chicago Bears (4-8)

[holygoat]

8 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

I wish this forum had a feature where you could just block phrases. I would totally block Chase Young. 

I would block "run through a brick wall."

[Motown Bombers]

 

[lordstanley]

20 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

I would totally block Chase Young. 

I would pay to see you try. 

[1984Echoes]

On 12/5/2023 at 5:31 PM, buddha said:

chase young has done nothing eventful in san fran and is a free agent after this year.  not sure why youre so fascinated with him.

the real question is whether you would have traded a first round pick for sweat.

On 12/5/2023 at 5:43 PM, djhutch said:

I know I would not have.  I like the young nucleus Holmes is building & I would not want to take away any arrows from his quiver.

 

Just wanted to add something here.

Specifically to arrows in Holmes' quiver.

The challenge is for Holmes to locate a Montez Sweat (1st round - 26th), Maxx Crosby (4th round - 106th overall), or Brian Burns (1st round - 16th) with one of his draft picks. He's taken a few shots at pass rushers, Pascal/ Hutchinson/ Houston/ Levi, etc...

We don't know the end result yet since some of these guys are too early in their career and are going through growing pains. Some more than others. A surprise riser/ performer could come out of their current ranks, even. Or he could find one of these guys in the 2024 draft, with a late 1st or 2nd, two 3rds... or a trade up to get his guy.

Chase Young is garbage. At least for the Lions. And no, I'm not interested in beating the 49'ers pick with a 2024 2nd to get him. IMO, It's a wasted draft pick if sent out in a trade for Young. Buddha is correct: If there was any guy to get, it was Sweat. But that costs a 1st rounder and a large salary commitment very (too?) early in the Lions rebuilding process. I was interested in Sweat. But if the Lions would rather hold onto all of their 2024 arrows...

I'm with djhutch, I'll trust Holmes to find his Montez Sweat AND Maxx Crosby pass-rushers in upcoming drafts. So yes... I want Holmes to have as many arrows in his quiver as possible as I think he will be successful in continuing to identify young talent in the draft that adds to future Lions success.

My 2 cents.

[djhutch]

1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said:

 

Just wanted to add something here.

Specifically to arrows in Holmes' quiver.

The challenge is for Holmes to locate a Montez Sweat (1st round - 26th), Maxx Crosby (4th round - 106th overall), or Brian Burns (1st round - 16th) with one of his draft picks. He's taken a few shots at pass rushers, Pascal/ Hutchinson/ Houston/ Levi, etc...

We don't know the end result yet since some of these guys are too early in their career and are going through growing pains. Some more than others. A surprise riser/ performer could come out of their current ranks, even. Or he could find one of these guys in the 2024 draft, with a late 1st or 2nd, two 3rds... or a trade up to get his guy.

Chase Young is garbage. At least for the Lions. And no, I'm not interested in beating the 49'ers pick with a 2024 2nd to get him. IMO, It's a wasted draft pick if sent out in a trade for Young. Buddha is correct: If there was any guy to get, it was Sweat. But that costs a 1st rounder and a large salary commitment very (too?) early in the Lions rebuilding process. I was interested in Sweat. But if the Lions would rather hold onto all of their 2024 arrows...

I'm with djhutch, I'll trust Holmes to find his Montez Sweat AND Maxx Crosby pass-rushers in upcoming drafts. So yes... I want Holmes to have as many arrows in his quiver as possible as I think he will be successful in continuing to identify young talent in the draft that adds to future Lions success.

My 2 cents.

Yep - Every GM, Holmes included, makes mistakes.  Reaches when, in hindsight, he shouldn't have - but I think by & large, I will trust his overall body of work - because I can see all of the decisions are made from the same mindset.  There's a plan in place.

[1984Echoes]

5 minutes ago, djhutch said:

Yep - Every GM, Holmes included, makes mistakes.  Reaches when, in hindsight, he shouldn't have - but I think by & large, I will trust his overall body of work - because I can see all of the decisions are made from the same mindset.  There's a plan in place.

I would also state that...

Holmes has the ability to identify exceptional, or at least positive contributing talent, or the possibility of such. In almost every round.

So yes, he's not going to bat 1.000. There's NO GM who does.

But I'll take my chances with his ability to identify talent.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

I don't want to keep talking about Chase Young after this. Young might be a total flop for the Niners and so be it if he is. I'm sure if he is we'll have a year's worth on condescending posts about "you wanted Chase Young and he sucks". If he works out for the 49'ers I'm sure little will be said. Unless he is a locker room disruption like an Antonio Brown or a really lazy player on the field, I see the trade as low risk/high reward for the them.

They only had to pay him around $560,000 for the remainder of the year and give up a 3rd to get him. If he doesn't work out and the Niners don't resign him they are getting a comp pick back anyways. That comp pick is quite possibly a 3rd itself, which will replace what they traded away. If he works out they win big. If he doesn't and they choose not to resign him and they get a compensatory 3rd in return then it seems like their biggest loss will have been $560k and a few draft spots back in the 3rd round. It's a risk I was willing to take and others were not, fair and fine all around.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Mr.TaterSalad

[1984Echoes]

27 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

... I see the trade as low risk/high reward for the them....

But THEY (meaning Holmes, his NFL scouts, coaches) did the actual WORK on evaluating whether Young, and/or the cost to obtain him was worth it and they decided to NOT pursue him. I believe he was not even under consideration. That's all I need to know.

No one cares if it's "low risk/ high reward" if he was a crappy fit for the Lions. And... Final Word: I'll take Holmes judgement on that. As gospel.

[Motown Bombers]

A comp pick isn't guarantied. It is dependent on how the Lions spend in free agency.  If it were just that easy, why would Washington trade him for only a 3rd?

Edited December 8, 2023 by Motown Bombers

[buddha]

51 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I don't want to keep talking about Chase Young after this. Young might be a total flop for the Niners and so be it if he is. I'm sure if he is we'll have a year's worth on condescending posts about "you wanted Chase Young and he sucks". If he works out for the 49'ers I'm sure little will be said. Unless he is a locker room disruption like an Antonio Brown or a really lazy player on the field, I see the trade as low risk/high reward for the them.

They only had to pay him around $560,000 for the remainder of the year and give up a 3rd to get him. If he doesn't work out and the Niners don't resign him they are getting a comp pick back anyways. That comp pick is quite possibly a 3rd itself, which will replace what they traded away. If he works out they win big. If he doesn't and they choose not to resign him and they get a compensatory 3rd in return then it seems like their biggest loss will have been $560k and a few draft spots back in the 3rd round. It's a risk I was willing to take and others were not, fair and fine all around.

they dont get a 3rd rounder in compensatory automatically.  it depends on who else they sign in free agency and what chase young signs for.

so stop saying that.

[MichiganCardinal]

Anzalone not listed and will play. That sure sounded a whole lot worse than missing one game and back to full strength when Campbell announced it.

[RandyMarsh]

Yeah I was expecting Anzalone to be out a 3-4 games judging by Campbell's comments so only missing 1 game is an unexpected surprise. A rare one when it comes to Lions injuries as it seems that guys usually are out longer than the initial prognosis. 

[Jason_R]

Detached thumb? Might miss a game. 

[Tigeraholic1]

 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

15 hours ago, buddha said:

they dont get a 3rd rounder in compensatory automatically.  it depends on who else they sign in free agency and what chase young signs for.

so stop saying that.

Well then tell Adam Schefter to stop saying it too because that's where I got it from initially.

 

[buddha]

31 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Well then tell Adam Schefter to stop saying it too because that's where I got it from initially.

 

he's not wrong.  they "could potentially recoup" the pick.

if they dont sign anyone else in free agency and young signs for a significant amount of money.  like we said here.  but you saying the lions will get that pick back if/when young leaves is not true.  they MIGHT get it if a number of other things happen.

and if they did, i would wait for your offseason posts criticizing the lions for not addressing needs in free agency.  remember holmes' first year when he let golladay and every other lions free agent leave and signed basically no one.  the lions got a ton of comp picks out of it.  i'd rather have them sign some cornerback depth (if it exists this year).

the biggest thing about chase young is that he just isnt that good anymore.  if draft status meant anything four years into a deal, james wiseman and marvin bagley would be great players.  zach wilson too.  young got injured and just never developed because of it.

[Tigeraholic1]

59 minutes ago, buddha said:

he's not wrong.  they "could potentially recoup" the pick.

if they dont sign anyone else in free agency and young signs for a significant amount of money.  like we said here.  but you saying the lions will get that pick back if/when young leaves is not true.  they MIGHT get it if a number of other things happen.

and if they did, i would wait for your offseason posts criticizing the lions for not addressing needs in free agency.  remember holmes' first year when he let golladay and every other lions free agent leave and signed basically no one.  the lions got a ton of comp picks out of it.  i'd rather have them sign some cornerback depth (if it exists this year).

the biggest thing about chase young is that he just isnt that good anymore.  if draft status meant anything four years into a deal, james wiseman and marvin bagley would be great players.  zach wilson too.  young got injured and just never developed because of it.

I never thought about that as some clever strategy. You reset the clock on every roster spot that you draft by 4-5 years. With all the needs we had at that time it was smart.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Tigeraholic1

[Motown Bombers]

 

[TP_Fan]

11 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

 

Lions collapse at the end.  I had tried to erase that.  Got ran all over in the middle of a snow storm.  

[Motor City Sonics]

Bears 38, Lions 20.    The collapse is nigh

[buddha]

everyone in chicago is picking the bears to win.

35 degrees and clear today.  doesnt seem very windy but it could be different down by the lake.

[MichiganCardinal]

Given that everything seems to be pointing to the Bears winning, they'll likely choke and give up by the 3rd quarter because they're very poorly coached.

Lions 38 Bears 17

[Hongbit]

Make room, everyone’s jumping back on board.  
 

Lions 41

Bears 23 

Not even that close as Lions have a 41-10 lead in the 4th.   Defense forces 4 turnovers and the OL does their job in front of Goff and he lights up the Bears.  

[Mr.TaterSalad]

I don't believe this team is nearing the edge of the cliff, despite what some fans think and despite their less than great play 4 of the last 5 weeks. I think the Lions do it Cosmo Kramer-style today and TCB! That said, I still think the defense struggles against yet another mobile QB and struggles in the pass rush department.

Lions 27-Bears 21.

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Mr.TaterSalad

[Mr.TaterSalad]

12 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Bears 38, Lions 20.    The collapse is nigh

Nah, they're winning today. I have enough confidence in Campbell and Johnson to right the ship and put up a solid offensive performance and go out and get the job done.