12/6/23 7:00PM EST Memphis Grizzlies @ Detroit Pistons

[Motown Bombers]

8 minutes ago, NYLion said:

There was a segment on The Valenti Show (I know, not everybody's Cup of Tea) saying that they're must watch TV for that very reason. It's witnessing history. Once they win a game IF they win a game, they'll go back to irrelevancy.

I feel this team is unique because of inept they are. The 119 loss Tigers were at the beginning of a rebuild. Dombrowski was just hired. The Pistons should be winning games by now and they are worse than they ever have been. The 0-16 you were only subjected to it once a week and getting the #1 pick meant you were getting a potential franchise QB. There isn't even hope. It's like watch a snuff film. 

[RandyMarsh]

Its amazing how virtually every decision Weaver has made has turned out to be the wrong one. Not just moves he made either, also moves he didn't make most notably not trading Jerami Grant at the first trade deadline after we signed him. Everybody knew his value wasn't going to be higher and that we weren't going to be contending by the time his contract was up anyway so might as well trade him then.  

[NYLion]

10 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I feel this team is unique because of inept they are. The 119 loss Tigers were at the beginning of a rebuild. Dombrowski was just hired. The Pistons should be winning games by now and they are worse than they ever have been. The 0-16 you were only subjected to it once a week and getting the #1 pick meant you were getting a potential franchise QB. There isn't even hope. It's like watch a snuff film. 

While I agree I'm just saying that nobody, nationally especially, will care one bit about the Pistons once they win a game. They're relevant and are a story now because of the losing streak, once they win a game they'll go back to obscurity even locally until they threaten the Sixers 9-73 season.

Edited December 7, 2023 by NYLion

[buddha]

the league stepped in to "help" the sixers after they became an embarassment at the end of the hinkie days.  they might do the same here.

that said, hiring colangelo turned out -imo - to be a huge mistake considering what he did with all those picks hinkie accumulated.

otoh, hinkie drafted okafor #3, which should have been a fireable offense.  the only person who thought okafor was worth a damn was hinkie....and troy weaver.

[Motown Bombers]

I remember in the depths of the Millen era, chants of fire Millen would break out during Pistons and Red Wings game. Wouldn't be wild if a fire Weaver chant breaks out at a Lions game?

[Deleterious]

I feel bad for the kids.  

I was in middle/high school when the Bad Boys won.  Nothing better than going into school the day after a big playoff win and talking about it with your buddies at school.  A few months after getting my drivers license, my first big driving adventure was taking my friends down to The Palace for the ceremony after one of the parades.  

A high school kid today has never seen the Pistons win a title.  But wait, there's more!  For 3 easy payments of $29.99 you can also get 0 playoff series wins in their lifetime.  And for a limited time we will throw in at no extra charge...0 playoff game won!

No wonder people watch soccer.  

[Motown Bombers]

Man, I just realized the 04 championship was 20 years ago. More time has elapsed between that championship and now then between the Bad Boys era and the Going to Work era. 

[casimir]

14 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

No wonder people watch soccer.  

This losing streak ain't hat bad.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

So Chris would leave Weaver in place for several years, eventually buy out Williams and hire a better coach that is a better fit, finally fire Weaver and bring in a sucessful GM and maybe they win in 2030?

 

2030 might be sooner than the track they are currently on.

[NYLion]

33 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

I feel bad for the kids.  

I was in middle/high school when the Bad Boys won.  Nothing better than going into school the day after a big playoff win and talking about it with your buddies at school.  A few months after getting my drivers license, my first big driving adventure was taking my friends down to The Palace for the ceremony after one of the parades.  

A high school kid today has never seen the Pistons win a title.  But wait, there's more!  For 3 easy payments of $29.99 you can also get 0 playoff series wins in their lifetime.  And for a limited time we will throw in at no extra charge...0 playoff game won!

No wonder people watch soccer.  

I feel for the 25 and under group that have experienced nothing but misery.

I'm in your age group and am lucky to have witnessed not one but two Championship eras so in a way we've been spoiled because most fanbases never get to experience that. The Pistons from roughly 1986-2010 were a top 5 NBA franchise. Seems like so long ago now.

Edited December 7, 2023 by NYLion

[Betrayer]

Monty is putting on a masterclass in how to get the bag and then go home to watch tv from your couch. This will be the third big name coach that Gores has hired only to watch them be even worse than everyone said they were when they got fired from their last job. Maybe one of the few things Weaver got right was to disagree with Gores about hiring Williams.

Ivey the 11th man. Rolling out a lineup up of Sasser, Burks, Thompson, Livers, and Wiseman to immediately lose a 7 pt lead. Starting Stew and Hayes. Taking two months to realize Cade needs spacing. Taking an 18 game losing streak to say he needs to shorten the rotation and find time for Ivey. Never changing the defense when we're absolutely getting rolled by a single player. Never running an out-of-timeout or out-of-bounds play that works. Never running anything resembling an offense in the 4th quarter.

Monty has already lost the locker room and we're not even a quarter of the way into the season. I knew he was just Casey 2.0 when we hired him. I wanted Udoka or Quinn, but I never thought it would be quite this bad. 

I'm not absolving Weaver here. This roster has been an abomination for 4 years, especially after all the offseason talk about wanting to win and then signing just Joe Harris and Monte Morris.  No wings, no backup Center, and not a single 3 and D player to speak of.

And now Duren is hurt (again) and it looks bad. That's the third ankle injury for him this season and he had them last year too. Someone get this kid some high tops, or tape his ankles, or get him some braces or something.

Can't wait to hear JEIII say something like, "Let's wait until Duren comes back so we can evaluate this team."

[RandyMarsh]

Being born in 82 Im grateful to enjoy successful Detroit teams while in my 20s. Had less responsibilities so I could go to big games or go out with friends to the bars for them. 

I turned 30 during the 2012 WS where the Tigers got swept, that was an omen for what Detroit sports was gonna be like for me in my thirties. 

[Motown Bombers]

Just think of the era from 2002 to 2009. Almost every year a Detroit team was in the championship:

2002: Red Wings
2003: None
2004: Pistons
2005: Pistons
2006: Tigers
2007: None
2008: Red Wings
2009: Red Wings

[Deleterious]

Here is my thing with Weaver.  I think he has drafted half way decent.  Cade and Ivey have talent.  I hate the position he plays, but Duren has talent and it was a nice move to land him.  Even if he never gets a jump shot, Thompson will contribute just based on his elite defense/rebounding.  

Weaver has done a terrible job at filling in the roster with free agency and trades.  Bojan was a decent move, but he even has some big flaws.  But lets just concede him being a nice move.  Name another player on this roster who contributes that Weaver brought in via trade or free agency.  

I realize Stewart could technically be called a trade.  But IMO if you trade for a guy before he plays his first NBA game, you drafted him.  

[KL2]

1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

I feel this team is unique because of inept they are. The 119 loss Tigers were at the beginning of a rebuild. 

They had been rebuilding for 15 years....

[Deleterious]

Their schedule till the end of the year.  Where does the win come from?  They better win one of the four against Atlanta, Utah, and Brooklyn.  

22	Fri, Dec 8, 2023	7:00p			@	Orlando Magic
23	Mon, Dec 11, 2023	7:00p				Indiana Pacers
24	Wed, Dec 13, 2023	7:00p				Philadelphia 76ers
25	Fri, Dec 15, 2023	7:00p			@	Philadelphia 76ers
26	Sat, Dec 16, 2023	6:00p			@	Milwaukee Bucks
27	Mon, Dec 18, 2023	7:30p			@	Atlanta Hawks
28	Thu, Dec 21, 2023	7:00p				Utah Jazz
29	Sat, Dec 23, 2023	7:30p			@	Brooklyn Nets
30	Tue, Dec 26, 2023	7:00p				Brooklyn Nets
31	Thu, Dec 28, 2023	7:30p			@	Boston Celtics
32	Sat, Dec 30, 2023	6:00p				Toronto Raptors

[buddha]

20 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

Here is my thing with Weaver.  I think he has drafted half way decent.  Cade and Ivey have talent.  I hate the position he plays, but Duren has talent and it was a nice move to land him.  Even if he never gets a jump shot, Thompson will contribute just based on his elite defense/rebounding.  

Weaver has done a terrible job at filling in the roster with free agency and trades.  Bojan was a decent move, but he even has some big flaws.  But lets just concede him being a nice move.  Name another player on this roster who contributes that Weaver brought in via trade or free agency.  

I realize Stewart could technically be called a trade.  But IMO if you trade for a guy before he plays his first NBA game, you drafted him.  

weaver is terrible at asset management.  dewayne dedmon is still on our cap even though he never played a second for detroit.  and even with that he's still been a more productive piston than james wiseman.

is stewart a success?  i guess so.  but that's a pretty low bar for a guy who should really be a backup, to have traded a future first round pick to get him and then signed him to that extension as if he's a foundational player on your team.

 

[1984Echoes]

25 minutes ago, KL2 said:

They had been rebuilding for 15 years....

But that was the Randy Smith rebuild.

The Dave Dombrowski rebuild went, just a little... better.

[Motown Bombers]

37 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

But that was the Randy Smith rebuild.

The Dave Dombrowski rebuild went, just a little... better.

Yeah he didn't quote the part where I said Dombrowski was just hired. It was a brand new rebuild. The Randy Smith one failed. 

[RandyMarsh]

I guess either way it all falls on Weaver since he is in charge but how much is to blame for the Pistons player development?

Like would these guys have turned out better if they were with franchises that excel at that or were they just bad acquisitions that were destined to fail regardless?

[1984Echoes]

Uncertain.

Players were drafted with known faults and developmental curves.

But if Ausar can't shoot... and never develops a shooting touch, is that on him, or the developmental team?

The only way to know that is for a different developmental team to work with him and he "magically" improves his shooting all of a sudden, drastically.

Some guys that are not great shooters are, simply, not great shooters. Is that on the player, developmental, or GM who drafted such player?

I mean, something like defense (Ivey) should be simple player focus. We DID see Ivey and Duren improve significantly last year... even with a lot of learning and improvement still yet to come... (we hope).

 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by 1984Echoes

[Shinzaki]

Watching a bit of the 1st half last night, I thought Bogie looked really good distributing the ball in transition...he had 7 assists in the first half and none the rest of the game, so that apparently didn't continue.  I'm not entirely sold on Cade as the primary ball handler...he just drives into double and triple teams too often

[gehringer_2]

59 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

Watching a bit of the 1st half last night, I thought Bogie looked really good distributing the ball in transition...he had 7 assists in the first half and none the rest of the game, so that apparently didn't continue.  I'm not entirely sold on Cade as the primary ball handler...he just drives into double and triple teams too often

I think the tell on Cade is how little he gets to the FT line. Teams don't have to respect his ability to at least drive and draw a foul when they close on him.

Edited December 8, 2023 by gehringer_2

[MichiganCardinal]

11 hours ago, NYLion said:

The Pistons continue to find new lows, it's quite remarkable. Is there any chance that Gores sells? That's the only way to pull this franchise out of the dumpster because it's been nothing but **** since Davidson passed away and it gets worse every year.

Like MTB, I am intrigued by this team despite not being a basketball fan.... it's like watching a structure fire. You feel bad.... but you can't look away.... Except there are no firefighters in sight.... I'm not watching games but I am checking ESPN and actively seeking out their scores on this streak.

That said, from the outside looking in, I don't think Gores is that bad of an owner. He's just in way over his head. It seems like he genuinely wants the team to succeed and he's willing to spend money to make it happen, but he just doesn't know the first thing about how to be a competent owner of an NBA team. He needs basketball's version of Chris Speilman. I'm sure he'll fire Weaver eventually, but unless he gets help in picking the next GM, they'll fail too (and then he'll be on the way to terrible owner status).

Wanting success and willingness to spend money puts him above WCF in my book, who I always felt was rather indifferent about success, and cared more about being liked and surrounding himself with yes-men. It also puts him above 1990s Ilitch with the Tigers for me, who was too busy playing (and winning) with the Red Wings to pay the Tigers any mind or money, in the one sport where the owner's checkbook makes the most difference in success.

[Deleterious]

Cade would never drive if he stopped driving into 2-3 defenders. 

The question is. Why are opposing teams able to keep an extra defender or two in the paint area without being punished.