12/8/23 7:00PM EST Detroit Pistons @ Orlando Magic

[Hart]

Gores really is at the root of this.  I don’t know how a fan base gets rid of an owner but everything about him screams losing organization.  

[Motown Bombers]

Guess someone needs to wear a wire and bait Gores into saying something racist so the league kicks him out. 

[buddha]

Just now, Hart said:

I don’t know who was clamoring for Livers but he has never been good. The other guys at least belong on an nba roster but somehow look like they don’t with Monty coaching them.  We are bad but I think being historically bad falls on the coach.

the pistons beat writers (who were obviously taking their cue from the front office.)

pistons are 4-43 in their last 47 games.  the third worst record in nba history over a 47 game stretch.

 

[buddha]

gores is a total douche.  there has to be SOMETHING out there!

[buddha]

JEIII wrote on monday that cade is finally becoming the 3 point shooter everyone anticipated.

since then cade is 3-11 from 3 and back the 3pt % he's been at almost his whole career.

Edited December 9, 2023 by buddha

[gehringer_2]

29 minutes ago, buddha said:

JEIII wrote on monday that cade is finally becoming the 3 point shooter everyone anticipated.

since then cade is 3-11 from 3 and back the 3pt % he's been at almost his whole career.

Yeah - he had a couple of good games then came back with a 1/5 from three with 5 TO performance. Nice assist numbers recently. One of the radio guys had some numbers along the lines that if the rest of the Pistons were league average shooters Cade would averaging something like 4 more assists/game.

[Deleterious]

52 minutes ago, buddha said:

if they were losing close games you might be able to play the health card, but theyre not.  theyre getting blown out!

As you have said before. Blown out and a lot of teams are sitting their best players.

[MichiganCardinal]

“They’re probably just tanking for a higher pick they’re not actually that bad” -the NBA lottery system

[buddha]

if it makes you feel any better the spurs blew a double digit halftime lead and lost to the bulls.

bulls have now won 4 straight since lavine went out.  hmm....

[buddha]

and can we admit ausar's offense is a real problem?  i mean, he cannot shoot.  its painful to watch.

killian is also playing halfway decebt right now.

[casimir]

11 hours ago, buddha said:

"cade cunningham with the 4th quarter heroics pulling the pistons to within 29!

dont look now george but the pistons have momentum and they've got it under 30.

the magic sense it too greg and they call time out!"

pistons broadcast....probably.

I never stick around for any post game blather, not for the Tigers, not for the Pistons.  Greg Kelser looked like he wanted to cry during his post game interview.  I like Kelser.  I'm afraid he's just going to suddenly go scorched earth midway through a 2nd quarter and then get fired.

[casimir]

8 hours ago, buddha said:

and can we admit ausar's offense is a real problem?  i mean, he cannot shoot.  its painful to watch.

killian is also playing halfway decebt right now.

So, yes, it might be time to send Thompson down to the G for some offensive work.  I'm probably wrong, but I think his defense might be losing some steam lately and I wonder if its due to the facial fracture and/or the offensive struggle.  Well, and/or the losing environment.  The whole team is in an offensive quagmire, so I don't know that its fair to assume he can find his game when the other 4 guys on the court are trying figure out what the unit is doing.

You mention Hayes playing decent right now, and I think that's fair.  So let him keep playing, maybe they can move him for something (which, ok, that can be another gripe session if/when it happens).

Go with a Hayes/Sasser at point and understanding that the offense isn't going to start exclusively through them.  Just call it a time share for now for ballhandling and having one legit backcourt defender out there.  This is the only floor slot that I'd go with a strict him or him arrangement.

The pivot while Duren is out can be a mix of Bagley/Stewart/Wiseman.  Yes, I said Wiseman.  Come on, you've watched the PIstons.  Bagley and/or Stewart will get into foul trouble, or one of them will get hurt, or something or another like that.  Ideally its a Bagley/Stewart at 5, although there might be some small minutes where a combo of the trio is on the floor due to the opposition having size on the floor.  I don't know what to tell you about that.  Go take a leak and/or refresh your beverage at that time.

I'm throwing the rest in a bag and want two of Cunningham, Bogdanovich, and Ivey out there at all times.  I'd start them and just go with the game flow to figure out who comes out first and then replaces the next and so on.  Maybe for now Bogdanovich's legs are a variable to keep in mind, not necessarly the stamina, but avoid regression of health to where he's back on bench injured.  Burks can be the first substitution for this crew, and maybe it doesn't get too deep into the bench after that, or maybe you look at Harris to stretch the floor more on occasion.  Oh, wait, what am I saying?  They could always use that threat.  But does his defense become too much of a liability if he's grouped with Bogdanovich and Ivey?  Ugh, this team....

[buddha]

JEIII today:

"It would be irresponsible not to mention that the Magic did have a kick-start to their rebuild. Trading Nikola Vucevic to the Bulls in 2021 allowed Orlando to land solid young big man Wendell Carter Jr. and two first-round picks, one of which became top-10 pick Franz Wagner, who has been one of the organization’s pillars alongside Paolo Banchero.

You need as many bites of the apple as you can get when rebuilding, and Orlando made good use of its extra opportunity. When the Pistons began their rebuild, their three “franchise” players — Blake Griffin, Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson — brought Detroit nothing but expiring contracts, second-round picks and dead money. The Pistons started their rebuild from zero.

Even with the lack of assets and extra lottery picks at their disposal, the Pistons losing by 30-plus points to the Magic, a year after they were in the same boat, for their 19th straight defeat signals something deeper. Detroit is beyond being in a funk. This almost feels permanent. Too much losing in a short amount of time does no one any good.

With that said, I’m sure Magic fans felt the same way when their team was 5-20 amid a 9-game losing skid this time last season. Things can change, I guess. Anything is possible."

the way he carries water for troy weaver is amazing.  the pistons have had MORE first round picks than the magic during this "rebuild."  and after carrying water for saddiq bey for three years he never mentions that the wiseman trade just might be a mistake.

i mean, come on.  if youre a beat writer who is just there to provide a game report and a quote after the game, cool.  but if youre supposed to be a commentary guy too, at least provide some meaningful criticism of the team and not this ass kissing bull****.

the narrative has gone from injuries back to "the cupboard was bare when he got here."  anything to keep from actually saying weaver has failed to do his job in the most spectacular way possible.  all the blogs and publications that dont need access have said it, all the beat writers who are around the team every day refuse to.

and they wonder why fans dont read newspapers anymore.

[casimir]

34 minutes ago, casimir said:

I'm throwing the rest in a bag...

This probably comes across the wrong way like I'm just filling out the floor.  The talent starts with this group.  I just think right now its easiest to look at this team, see 1 PG and 1 C/frontcourt pivot, and 3 G/Fs.  The PGs fit together and can be an exclusive grouping.  The Cs somewhat similarly.  As the G/Fs go, this team will go.

[casimir]

1 minute ago, buddha said:

JEIII today:

"It would be irresponsible not to mention that the Magic did have a kick-start to their rebuild. Trading Nikola Vucevic to the Bulls in 2021 allowed Orlando to land solid young big man Wendell Carter Jr. and two first-round picks, one of which became top-10 pick Franz Wagner, who has been one of the organization’s pillars alongside Paolo Banchero.

You need as many bites of the apple as you can get when rebuilding, and Orlando made good use of its extra opportunity. When the Pistons began their rebuild, their three “franchise” players — Blake Griffin, Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson — brought Detroit nothing but expiring contracts, second-round picks and dead money. The Pistons started their rebuild from zero.

Even with the lack of assets and extra lottery picks at their disposal, the Pistons losing by 30-plus points to the Magic, a year after they were in the same boat, for their 19th straight defeat signals something deeper. Detroit is beyond being in a funk. This almost feels permanent. Too much losing in a short amount of time does no one any good.

With that said, I’m sure Magic fans felt the same way when their team was 5-20 amid a 9-game losing skid this time last season. Things can change, I guess. Anything is possible."

the way he carries water for troy weaver is amazing.  the pistons have had MORE first round picks than the magic during this "rebuild."  and after carrying water for saddiq bey for three years he never mentions that the wiseman trade just might be a mistake.

i mean, come on.  if youre a beat writer who is just there to provide a game report and a quote after the game, cool.  but if youre supposed to be a commentary guy too, at least provide some meaningful criticism of the team and not this ass kissing bull****.

the narrative has gone from injuries back to "the cupboard was bare when he got here."  anything to keep from actually saying weaver has failed to do his job in the most spectacular way possible.  all the blogs and publications that dont need access have said it, all the beat writers who are around the team every day refuse to.

and they wonder why fans dont read newspapers anymore.

The 2022-2023 Magic progression was brought up in the postgame (can remember if it was Mickey York or Tim McCormick or Greg Kelser).  At this point, that's our best hope.  An early season struggle, figure out what needs to be figured it, and end the season like the Magic did.  5-20 was followed by 29-28.  And now they're 15-7 to start this season.

[Deleterious]

 

28 minutes ago, buddha said:

JEIII today:

"It would be irresponsible not to mention that the Magic did have a kick-start to their rebuild. Trading Nikola Vucevic to the Bulls in 2021 allowed Orlando to land solid young big man Wendell Carter Jr. and two first-round picks, one of which became top-10 pick Franz Wagner, who has been one of the organization’s pillars alongside Paolo Banchero.

You need as many bites of the apple as you can get when rebuilding, and Orlando made good use of its extra opportunity. When the Pistons began their rebuild, their three “franchise” players — Blake Griffin, Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson — brought Detroit nothing but expiring contracts, second-round picks and dead money. The Pistons started their rebuild from zero.

Even with the lack of assets and extra lottery picks at their disposal, the Pistons losing by 30-plus points to the Magic, a year after they were in the same boat, for their 19th straight defeat signals something deeper. Detroit is beyond being in a funk. This almost feels permanent. Too much losing in a short amount of time does no one any good.

With that said, I’m sure Magic fans felt the same way when their team was 5-20 amid a 9-game losing skid this time last season. Things can change, I guess. Anything is possible."

the way he carries water for troy weaver is amazing.  the pistons have had MORE first round picks than the magic during this "rebuild."  and after carrying water for saddiq bey for three years he never mentions that the wiseman trade just might be a mistake.

i mean, come on.  if youre a beat writer who is just there to provide a game report and a quote after the game, cool.  but if youre supposed to be a commentary guy too, at least provide some meaningful criticism of the team and not this ass kissing bull****.

the narrative has gone from injuries back to "the cupboard was bare when he got here."  anything to keep from actually saying weaver has failed to do his job in the most spectacular way possible.  all the blogs and publications that dont need access have said it, all the beat writers who are around the team every day refuse to.

and they wonder why fans dont read newspapers anymore.

I don't want to argue.  I am agreeing with you.  ****ing Weaver.  

Edited December 9, 2023 by Deleterious

[Motown Bombers]

I didn't realize Gores bought the team all the way back in 2011. Since that time, they had one winning season. After watching what happened with the Lions, this team needs an ownership change. 

[NYLion]

14 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Single Ivey > Married Ivey.

Ivey without Monty > Ivey with Monty

In fact, you can say that about a lot of Pistons. The roster is obviously a big issue but Monty has sucked all the life out of it. At least they were competing under Casey, I have no idea what this is that we're witnessing.

On another note, Popovich is the Belichick of the NBA. Road the coattails of Duncan/Brady to coaching immortality. Good coaches but propped up big time by all time great players.

[Deleterious]

Gores isn't selling.

Forbes values the Pistons at $3B and the Pacers at $2.9B.  Pacers just sold 15% of their team at a valuation of $3.4B.  So you can make a great argument the Pistons are worth $3.5B.  Get a bidding war and $4B isn't out of the question.

Gores paid $350M 12 years ago.  He 10X his investment in 12 years.  3X in 12 years is damn good, and he did 10.

On top of that, Forbes reports an operating income of $83M.  Now that isn't exactly profit, you still have to figure interest, taxes, etc.  But they made a profit it appears.  

All that great financial news and he did it while being the worst owner in the league in those 12 years.  They made all that money without winning a playoff game.  Why would you sell?  Only way I sell is if I am broke and need the money.  Or I have a better investment to put my money into.

 

[buddha]

6 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

Gores isn't selling.

Forbes values the Pistons at $3B and the Pacers at $2.9B.  Pacers just sold 15% of their team at a valuation of $3.4B.  So you can make a great argument the Pistons are worth $3.5B.  Get a bidding war and $4B isn't out of the question.

Gores paid $350M 12 years ago.  He 10X his investment in 12 years.  3X in 12 years is damn good, and he did 10.

On top of that, Forbes reports an operating income of $83M.  Now that isn't exactly profit, you still have to figure interest, taxes, etc.  But they made a profit it appears.  

All that great financial news and he did it while being the worst owner in the league in those 12 years.  They made all that money without winning a playoff game.  Why would you sell?  Only way I sell is if I am broke and need the money.  Or I have a better investment to put my money into.

 

if only the prison telephone call business wasnt so good.

btw, did he lower those call prices?  did he "learn" after the george floyd riots like he said he was going to do?

[Deleterious]

11 minutes ago, buddha said:

if only the prison telephone call business wasnt so good.

btw, did he lower those call prices?  did he "learn" after the george floyd riots like he said he was going to do?

I can't really find anything about him lowering prices or even losing money on it.  But he did pay a massive price socially.

What a joke.

https://truthout.org/articles/private-equity-is-using-prison-phone-food-and-health-systems-to-rack-up-profits/

Quote

Then, in 2020, after Tom Gores gave lip service to Black Lives Matter protests, Worth Rises, accusing Gores of hypocrisy since he profits from racist mass incarceration, began a high-profile campaign that grabbed national headlines. They protested Gores, who owns the National Basketball Association’s Detroit Pistons, at a Pistons game and put a full-page ad in The New York Times shaming him. This campaign successfully pressured Gores to resign from the board of the prestigious Los Angeles County Museum of Art.

 

[Tigerbomb13]

[Deleterious]

Something to shoot for.

 

[casimir]

1 hour ago, Deleterious said:

Something to shoot for.

 

No.  I’m still hoping this is short term pain for long term gain.  Maybe I’m being naive, that very well could be the case.

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, casimir said:

No.  I’m still hoping this is short term pain for long term gain.  Maybe I’m being naive, that very well could be the case.

going to be very hard to turn around a franchise with poor leadership because bad decisions will continue to undercut any progress the players do make. The only way franchises with bad management this bad break through is when they get so much luck they can't screw it up, like drafting a Jokic. Pistons had their shot and Cade is no Jokic.