Week Fifteen: Denver Broncos (7-6) @ Detroit Lions (9-4)

[TP_Fan]

It isn’t scheme or coaching though. Strictly discipline.  

Edited December 11, 2023 by TP_Fan

[MichiganCardinal]

As we enter the final four games of the season, are we going to revert back to the first four, or maintain the gradual downward trend we have seen in the most recent four?

I think there are reasons to believe we could return to form. If we get Ragnow back, we will have all five starting offensive linemen again, which is clearly vital to Goff’s success. Along with getting CJGJ and Houston back.

At the same time, there doesn’t seem to be any sense of urgency with the coaching staff. It’s status quo for better or worse.

[Jason_R]

1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I don't know for certain. But after the game yesterday when TJ Lang interviewed him he seemed to elude in his postgame quote that he felt player discipline was the issue and not coaching. This is what he said to TJ: "It was discipline that cost us. Not effort, not coaching, not scheme."

The players themselves said that discipline cost them. Hutch went offside on 4th and 13 and cost them a touchdown. He also apparently called his own stunt on another. The defense does not trust one another right now, the staff doesn't trust them, and the players don't trust the staff. There is more going on there than the public humiliation of AG would accomplish.

My real question is why did Johnson/Goff keep trying to force the ball to ARSB and Laporta in the middle of the field when the Bears were clearly focusing on them? 

[Motown Bombers]

I wonder if the Bears ever actually intended to snap the ball on that 4th down unless the Lions jumped?

[djhutch]

6 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I wonder if the Bears ever actually intended to snap the ball on that 4th down unless the Lions jumped?

IMO, I don't think so.  I do wonder though if that's what you get with a passionate, aggressive coaching philosophy - Dumb mistakes.

[NYLion]

46 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

They only have one training camp to decide. Hooker may be 27 before he starts his first NFL game. Goff just turned 29 and is in his 8th season.

Actually they're over 3 years apart and while they may be relatively close in age they're far different in terms of experience. We know what Goff is, he's a good QB that needs to be in a pretty ideal situation to succeed. Hooker COULD be better than just good unlikely as it may be because he has a more dynamic toolkit and, more importantly, will be roughly $45m cheaper for the next 3 years to give them a whole whack of cap flexibility plus the assets from the Goff trade to strengthen the roster.

You run the risk of Hooker being a complete bust but the Lions also have the type of roster with their offensive line and weapons to properly ease in a developmental QB while also being competitive. They'll also have a load of assets to strengthen the defense.

Don't get me wrong, I've been a Goff advocate but this 7 game stretch is illustrating that if things break down Goff is mincemeat pretty much. He still has time to change the narrative with a strong close down the stretch and winning a playoff game but, right now, he's sinking and he along with others need to right the ship quickly

[TP_Fan]

22 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I wonder if the Bears ever actually intended to snap the ball on that 4th down unless the Lions jumped?

They most definitely didn’t. 
 

 

[TP_Fan]

Rinse and repeat with the talking points. They literally are doing nothing new. 

[Jason_R]

1 minute ago, djhutch said:

IMO, I don't think so.  I do wonder though if that's what you get with a passionate, aggressive coaching philosophy - Dumb mistakes.

Hutch was not coached to go offsides. He jumped because he is pressing. They are all pressing because they don't trust one another. The coaches (Campbell) are pressing now because they don't trust the players, and are at the point where they are replacing players. Tracy Walker didn't get his number called yesterday. They picked up a new CB and gave him some of Jacobs's snaps. The players are all going to have to come together and decide who is on the ship and who is not and all pull in the same direction. 

[NYLion]

1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

Eagles got crushed in back to back games, defense is worse than the Lions, Hurts is turning the ball over more than Goff, they are tied in the division but they are real contenders and the Lions are not. 

The Eagles went to the Superbowl last season, the Lions haven't even made the playoffs yet so, yeah, the Eagles get the benefit of the doubt. You don't see a difference?  It's a silly comparison

Edited December 11, 2023 by NYLion

[Motown Bombers]

2 minutes ago, NYLion said:

The Eagles went to the Superbowl last season, the Lions haven't even made the playoffs yet so, yeah, the Eagles get the benefit of the doubt. You don't see a difference?  It's a silly comparison

I don't care about last year. The Eagles right now do not have a good defense. We can say the same about the Chiefs and their offense. 

[TP_Fan]

Always the players fault. Never the coaches.  

[TP_Fan]

Game plan was perfect 🙄.  Laying it on thick.  I think there is growing contempt from the coaches towards the fans and media.  Smartest man in the room problem.  

[NYLion]

10 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I don't care about last year. The Eagles right now do not have a good defense. We can say the same about the Chiefs and their offense. 

It matters, it's the same core of players that won a Superbowl and went to a Superbowl respectively so naturally Superbowl teams will receive more benefit of the doubt than a team that hasn't even made the playoffs yet.

[TP_Fan]

.6 out of 100. Is that bad?

[TP_Fan]

The question is, can Goff ever be a QB who can play at least average under pressure, or is this what you get from him?  It seems either he has to have a perfect pocket or it’s over.  So hard watching that and then seeing all these teams have QBs can make things happen with your feet.  Don’t need it to be Fields or LaMar, but you have to be able to scramble and throw at least a little bit.  

[lordstanley]

47 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I wonder if the Bears ever actually intended to snap the ball on that 4th down unless the Lions jumped?

I don’t think they were looking to snap or even to really get a free play. I think if the Lions had jumped offside, right into the line and the Bears didn’t even get a play off, the 5 yards probably would have been enough for Chicago to try a field goal. 

[Motown Bombers]

17 minutes ago, NYLion said:

It matters, it's the same core of players that won a Superbowl and went to a Superbowl respectively so naturally Superbowl teams will receive more benefit of the doubt than a team that hasn't even made the playoffs yet.

A core that beat a weak Giants team and a 49ers team without a QB who could throw the ball. It's also a team that lost both of its coordinators (which I'm told here is the key to all the Lions success. 

[Motown Bombers]

18 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

I don’t think they were looking to snap or even to really get a free play. I think if the Lions had jumped offside, right into the line and the Bears didn’t even get a play off, the 5 yards probably would have been enough for Chicago to try a field goal. 

Yeah that's why I was thinking. They were trying to get the Lions to jump and pick up 5 yards but also had an option where they would snap the ball and take the free play if they got it. 

[Adullin]

Really need this game. Team needs to focus on run first pass off run plays. Goff found success with that in LA and here. 

[buddha]

2 hours ago, TP_Fan said:

.6 out of 100. Is that bad?

its all sean mcvay's fault.

[buddha]

i dont know what you expect dan campbell to say.  he's not going to throw individuals under rhe bus right now, he's not a fan on a sports radio call in show, he's the coach of a stumbling team.  he's got to build them back up, not make fans happy by saying how much they suck.

[buddha]

as bad as goff has been in a few of the last couple games (but not all of them, he made some throws against the saints), if he were on the open market he'd get $40 mil or more a year.  there are no qbs out there.  goff can at least run an offense.  can get people in the right place.  he knows where to go with the ball.  he is who most of us thought he was: adequate to good.  those guys dont grow on trees in the nfl.

do the lions want to commit that much of their cap to goff?  or can they get him to do a bridge deal like geno did?  i've always thought the plan was to suck in year one (mission accomplished!) and draft a qb...but there no qbs worth taking.  so the plan shifted.  i imagine they hope hooker becomes something and they can let goff walk after next year or franchise him.

if hooker doesnt develop i cant imagine them letting goff walk.  he'll get a deal here and we'll be stuck with him, for better or worse.

and it could be worse.  look at the vikings.

or....you could trade for justin fields.  

[Motown Bombers]

9 minutes ago, buddha said:

its all sean mcvay's fault.

No, it's Goff's fault. When Goff is good it's because of Ben Johnson, Todd Gurley, Jonah Jackson, Sean McVay etc. When Goff is bad it is because of Goff. 

[Motown Bombers]

2 minutes ago, buddha said:

as bad as goff has been in a few of the last couple games (but not all of them, he made some throws against the saints), if he were on the open market he'd get $40 mil or more a year.  there are no qbs out there.  goff can at least run an offense.  can get people in the right place.  he knows where to go with the ball.  he is who most of us thought he was: adequate to good.  those guys dont grow on trees in the nfl.

do the lions want to commit that much of their cap to goff?  or can they get him to do a bridge deal like geno did?  i've always thought the plan was to suck in year one (mission accomplished!) and draft a qb...but there no qbs worth taking.  so the plan shifted.  i imagine they hope hooker becomes something and they can let goff walk after next year or franchise him.

if hooker doesnt develop i cant imagine them letting goff walk.  he'll get a deal here and we'll be stuck with him, for better or worse.

and it could be worse.  look at the vikings.

or....you could trade for justin fields.  

3 years ago you said he would be a backup by now.