2024 NFL Draft

[MichiganCardinal]

5 hours ago, Jimbo said:

I think having a good (and possibly great) secondary will be almost as helpful to Hutch as another high end edge rusher.  You don't need another pro bowler on the opposite side when you have a good secondary.  You can afford to blitz when you have better coverage.  I am also curious how Campbell looks in his second year with a better secondary.  If you look at the whole off season, our defense is significantly better.

I agree with what I bolded. I agree with the bit about Hutch being better as well, but I think that only works to an extent. If Love or Williams or JJ are able to break out of the pocket and extend a play because Hutch is closing in on one side, and Alim/Reader are collapsing the interior, but the other side is a total non-factor, no secondary in the NFL can be expected to defend receivers for 10+ seconds.

But these are likely rich people problems, which is nice to have for a change.

[Jimbo]

I just said pro bowler.  I don't think whatever combo of guys they put on the line will be a non factor.  If your coverage is better there is a lot more you can do up front to put pressure on the QB.  I think the biggest factor will be what we do against mobile QBs.  Which always seems to kill us.  All of this is if the rookies and the guys they picked up in the off season are as good as predicted.  Good thing is we also have some depth there.  For me, this is the year Glenn needs to prove himself.  He has more talent now, so the excuses are gone.

 

I don't think it was Holme's strategy to have a deep secondary, its just the way the draft fell.  That's why I like him.  He went with talent and then when  you have good coaches you have to flexibility to with your strengths.  I would of been fine if Arnold was gone and Turner or Verse slipped more and went with them.

Edited May 1 by Jimbo

[MichiganCardinal]

27 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

I just said pro bowler.  I don't think whatever combo of guys they put on the line will be a non factor.  If your coverage is better there is a lot more you can do up front to put pressure on the QB.  I think the biggest factor will be what we do against mobile QBs.  Which always seems to kill us.  All of this is if the rookies and the guys they picked up in the off season are as good as predicted.  Good thing is we also have some depth there.  For me, this is the year Glenn needs to prove himself.  He has more talent now, so the excuses are gone.

I don't think it was Holme's strategy to have a deep secondary, its just the way the draft fell.  That's why I like him.  He went with talent and then when  you have good coaches you have to flexibility to with your strengths.  I would of been fine if Arnold was gone and Turner or Verse slipped more and went with them.

I hope it won't be a non-factor. But Charles Harris + the Okwaras sure were. Davenport + a healthy Houston should be better. Maybe not great, or even good. But better.

[KnoxP]

31 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

...I don't think it was Holme's strategy to have a deep secondary, its just the way the draft fell.  That's why I like him.  He went with talent and then when  you have good coaches you have to flexibility to with your strengths.  I would of been fine if Arnold was gone and Turner or Verse slipped more and went with them.

Also, this reminds me of what Campbell and Holmes preached early on. Put players in positions to succeed, don't force players into a plan...plan around the player. Coaches should be able to do this. 

And yes...this will be an interesting year for Glenn with this increase in talent.

[Jason_R]

Injuries happen but with the new defensive additions, including Reader, there is not really a weak unit. 

[Motown Bombers]

 

[1984Echoes]

48 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

He was a RB in high school...

So...

I guess it's like riding a bike?

😁😉

[1984Echoes]

49 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

PS:

Also... that's obviously one of the things where Holmes was so excited to draft him as a RB....

I think he will be a MAJOR special teams guy this year...

And will only see a few scraps here and there as an actual RB. Maybe a few more snaps at WR.

I think in year two or three... just guessing... he'll be all over the place: Special teams, RB, WR, Safety...

[buddha]

brugler rated the lions draft as #3 in the league.

bears were #1.

[Motown Bombers]

4 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

PS:

Also... that's obviously one of the things where Holmes was so excited to draft him as a RB....

I think he will be a MAJOR special teams guy this year...

And will only see a few scraps here and there as an actual RB. Maybe a few more snaps at WR.

I think in year two or three... just guessing... he'll be all over the place: Special teams, RB, WR, Safety...

Vaki and Montgomery are similar size. Both ran identical 40's. Both are elite tackle breakers. Is Vaki the potential Montgomery replacement in two years? 

[1984Echoes]

9 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Vaki and Montgomery are similar size. Both ran identical 40's. Both are elite tackle breakers. Is Vaki the potential Montgomery replacement in two years? 

I'm guessing that's a definitive yes.

And he'll get some RB snaps this year...

But since they have Montgomery, there's no need to rush.

If Montgomery gets nicked up... Then I could see Vaki getting 100% of those injury snaps...

Otherwise, those RB snaps will mostly be parsimonious at least compared to his special teams snaps. 

Maybe by the end of the year those will tick up slightly...?

[NYLion]

16 hours ago, buddha said:

brugler rated the lions draft as #3 in the league.

bears were #1.

Not surprised. The Lions took a lot of guys that were high on Brugler's draft list. 

I always wonder about these rankings. Do they rank teams drafts based on pure value or do they account for where the team drafted and how they did relative to draft position?

For instance, the Bears had two top 10 picks while the Lions drafted 29th so based on draft position alone, you'd expect the Bears to get better value so you'd expect them to get better prospects. I don't know, just a thought exercise on my part and I should know better because nothing ever comes good from me having to think.

[RatkoVarda]

I was probably 22 or so when I realized that Mel Kiper was really just a used car salesman

if he consistenly knew how to identify talent better than teams, he would have been hired, paid a lot of money and given a lot of power to build a team

just like I did not care very much that the 2023 crop was disparaged, i don't care that people really like the 2024 class

Brad knows what he is doing, full stop; 3 great drafts prove it; the only surprise will be if the 2024 class does not turn out to be good (even if any one pick does not make it)

[Jason_R]

7 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

I was probably 22 or so when I realized that Mel Kiper was really just a used car salesman

if he consistenly knew how to identify talent better than teams, he would have been hired, paid a lot of money and given a lot of power to build a team

just like I did not care very much that the 2023 crop was disparaged, i don't care that people really like the 2024 class

Brad knows what he is doing, full stop; 3 great drafts prove it; the only surprise will be if the 2024 class does not turn out to be good (even if any one pick does not make it)

We saw what happened with Mike Mayock. 

And if you’re Chicago, with the 1st and 9th picks in a QB rich draft it is impossible that you don’t win the draft. Can they turn it into a winning football team? Let’s see. 

[buddha]

1 hour ago, NYLion said:

Not surprised. The Lions took a lot of guys that were high on Brugler's draft list. 

I always wonder about these rankings. Do they rank teams drafts based on pure value or do they account for where the team drafted and how they did relative to draft position?

For instance, the Bears had two top 10 picks while the Lions drafted 29th so based on draft position alone, you'd expect the Bears to get better value so you'd expect them to get better prospects. I don't know, just a thought exercise on my part and I should know better because nothing ever comes good from me having to think.

i think the lions had a brilliant draft considering where they were picking.

bears took the obvious #1 pick and a receiver everyone liked.  i also remember the same things being said about trevor lawrence and while he's been good - great at times - he hasnt been patrick mahomes.  we'll see about the bears.  they are a lousy organization, but sometimes they luck themselves into good teams.  hopefully this is not one of those times.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

On 4/30/2024 at 5:46 PM, Motown Bombers said:

 

When you already have a Darius Robinson type player on the roster in Josh Paschal, why would you want to trade up in the first round to add . . . Josh Paschal. Robinson strikes me as a Josh Paschal type of player.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Holmes generally seems to love guys with high athletic upside and traits. His RAS and combine performance don't strike me as that type of guy. I'm glad we passed on Robinson. Maybe I'll come to rue the day I typed this out. 

[1984Echoes]

You were right earlier in the thread Tater when you said it seemed the Lions had some interest in drafting him in the 1st...

But I can't figure out why.

And it's not only Josh Paschal...

They already signed another Josh Paschal as a FA in Marcus Davenport. 

So now we need 3 of the same guy in Darius Robinson? Josh Paschal 3.0? And it's really Paschal 4.0 because Cominsky is ALSO the same type. (A run-stopper at DE and NOT a pass-rushing DE but can swing into DT if needed to try and generate an inside rush on passing downs...).

WTF?

The only thing I can think of is they felt there was a huge amount of untapped potential in him and their coaches could bring that out. And he would be better than the other 3 guys...

But again... WTF?

[Motown Bombers]

Davenport and Paschal are not the same. Davenport is a better athlete and pass rusher. He's just struggled staying healthy. 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

I liked Jared Verse as far as edge prospects go in this year's draft. I wasn't really a big fan of the other Robinson, Cop Robinson, either. But if I was going to trade up for one of the DE/Edge prospects it would have been Verse or Chop given their athletic upside compared to Darius Robinson. Both had better combines and seem to showcase more athleticism and traits you can't really coach D.Rob does.

[Longgone]

3 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I liked Jared Verse as far as edge prospects go in this year's draft. I wasn't really a big fan of the other Robinson, Cop Robinson, either. But if I was going to trade up for one of the DE/Edge prospects it would have been Verse or Chop given their athletic upside compared to Darius Robinson. Both had better combines and seem to showcase more athleticism and traits you can't really coach D.Rob does.

It’s interesting that people are always trying to mock smaller speed rushers like Chop Robinson to the lions as a complement to Hutch. That just isn’t their style, they want a big, strong presence at de to set the edge and control a gap first, and rush the qb second. They do incorporate a pure speed rusher, but it’s a part time position on passing downs, and they are not going to commit premium resources for that.

[MichiganCardinal]

23 minutes ago, Longgone said:

It’s interesting that people are always trying to mock smaller speed rushers like Chop Robinson to the lions as a complement to Hutch. That just isn’t their style, they want a big, strong presence at de to set the edge and control a gap first, and rush the qb second. They do incorporate a pure speed rusher, but it’s a part time position on passing downs, and they are not going to commit premium resources for that.

I think I would be fine if the edge across from Hutch did that, even if they weren't a natural pass-rusher like Hutch or Houston. The problem last year was that when Charles Harris or either Okwara were on the field, we might as well have had a mannequin across from Hutch. And then they double-team Hutch, and then the QB has all day long.

[Longgone]

14 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I think I would be fine if the edge across from Hutch did that, even if they weren't a natural pass-rusher like Hutch or Houston. The problem last year was that when Charles Harris or either Okwara were on the field, we might as well have had a mannequin across from Hutch. And then they double-team Hutch, and then the QB has all day long.

The point is the Lions are not going to spend high draft picks or major free agent dollars on a de who can rush the passer but can’t really man up in the run game, so they might as well stop projecting them to the lions.

[Jason_R]

4 minutes ago, Longgone said:

The point is the Lions are not going to spend high draft picks or major free agent dollars on a de who can rush the passer but can’t really man up in the run game, so they might as well stop projecting them to the lions.

And they saw the top two CBs on their board as the draft’s best in run support, in addition to their coverage skills. 

BTW, haven’t they heard this is a passing league? 😉

[1984Echoes]

2 hours ago, Longgone said:

.... They do incorporate a pure speed rusher, but it’s a part time position on passing downs, and they are not going to commit premium resources for that.

That's why I was fine looking at a later round guy like Chris Braswell or Adisa Isaac.

Also... even if they like a bigger DE to set the edge and control the running game... there are alternatives like a do-it-all OLB. Someone who can make all the run fits, cover TE's or RB's coming out of the backfield, and rush the passer like crazy. Those guys may be unicorns or like a unicorn... but they do exist.

Chop Robinson was actually a decent (but raw) attempt at such... but again, I liked the later round guys who were more OLB than (DE like Chop... and I also didn't want to spend the 1st rounder on him...). Which is again Braswell or Isaac or a few others. Also, these guys can come up to the line as a DE on obvious passing downs, like 3rd & long and such, whilst a Marcus Davenport swings inside to rush inside.

I don't think a 1st rounder is required here...

But a well placed 2nd or 3rd rounder could pay big dividends, IMO, for this defense.

 

 

Edited May 4 by 1984Echoes