KL2 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 16 hours ago, GoBlue23 said: According to what I find online, DeJean runs a 4.5 40 with the average 40 time of a cornerback in the NFL being 4.48. So while he's not a burner, he seems to have enough speed to do the job. High school testing. Guys improve I've seen every snap he's played, I'm telling you he's plenty fast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: It's really a shame the Lions won some meaningless games at the end or else they could have had one of the top CBs in the draft. When you don't know what words mean.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley70 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Holmes has shown he will trade up to get a player they value. If they want a CB that looks like a starter right away they probably will have to trade up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 We'll see as the process gets further along but there's always guys falling. Last year guys like Joey Porter, Cam Smith and Brian Branch were being thrown around for our 2nd pick most of the draft process and they all lasted to the 2nd round. I will say though obviously given how productive our first four picks were last year(well maybe not so much Campbell but I still have high hopes for him) it's hard to be too critical of Holmes but I'd feel alot better at this point if we would've taken a true CB instead of drafting Hooker or Martin. There were still some good ones available at those points last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 16 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: We'll see as the process gets further along but there's always guys falling. Last year guys like Joey Porter, Cam Smith and Brian Branch were being thrown around for our 2nd pick most of the draft process and they all lasted to the 2nd round. I will say though obviously given how productive our first four picks were last year(well maybe not so much Campbell but I still have high hopes for him) it's hard to be too critical of Holmes but I'd feel alot better at this point if we would've taken a true CB instead of drafting Hooker or Martin. There were still some good ones available at those points last year. Hindsight is 20/20 but I was a Joey Porter Jr. fan last year and a Christian Gonzalez fan. Had they taken Porter Jr. over Campbell I think that would have given us our CB #1 for the future. Oh well, can't ace every pick and Campbell could still be a very solid player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 I'm guessing if they take Porter they don't take Branch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 3 Author Share Posted February 3 3 hours ago, Motown Bombers said: I'm guessing if they take Porter they don't take Branch. They could have used both. And it's easier to find a plug at LB'er than a CB1, IMO, so that's the direction I would have gone. I think the criticism of the Campbell pick is that he was not dynamic enough to be selected at that spot. He has yet to show otherwise. I mean, he may yet... If he's not Von Miller or Khalil Mack... if he's only another Anzalone... then isn't a CB1 more valuable? Or maybe he turns into a Jerod Mayo and the discussion turns again... But I'm not going to quibble here... Holmes/ DC are obviously putting together an outstanding team. Which includes Campbell. Just throwing out a couple of concepts... I think a Miller or Mack are of the highest value. A true CB1 is probably right at the same level. An Anzalone is certainly not. But a Mayo is...? I don't know... equivalent? Slightly less in modern day pass-happy football? Close enough to not quibble...? Just... Food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Free agency is very deep at corner this year. Jaylon Johnson, L'Jarius Sneed, and Kendall Fuller could be signed and instantly be the CB1 on this team, and there are probably a dozen guys who could be signed to be CB2 across from Sutton (who will have hopefully figured it the **** out again by August). Given the goal next year is a Super Bowl, I don't think they will take a corner at #29, unless one of the top ones fall. Corners more often than not need time to develop (even more so than linebackers). I think they might take an heir apparent in the 2nd or 3rd round, but I think it'll be a plug-and-play edge rusher or DT at #29. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 3 Author Share Posted February 3 16 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said: Free agency is very deep at corner this year. Jaylon Johnson, L'Jarius Sneed, and Kendall Fuller could be signed and instantly be the CB1 on this team, and there are probably a dozen guys who could be signed to be CB2 across from Sutton (who will have hopefully figured it the **** out again by August). Given the goal next year is a Super Bowl, I don't think they will take a corner at #29, unless one of the top ones fall. Corners more often than not need time to develop (even more so than linebackers). I think they might take an heir apparent in the 2nd or 3rd round, but I think it'll be a plug-and-play edge rusher or DT at #29. This is what I am thinking also... to a (D)T. Or DE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 It's one of the things that I'll believe when I see but Colin Cowherd is saying that Caleb Williams camp told him that they will not play for the Bears if they draft him. I believe Colin cause I think he has alot of USC connections but still skeptical that they will actually stick to that threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 26 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: It's one of the things that I'll believe when I see but Colin Cowherd is saying that Caleb Williams camp told him that they will not play for the Bears if they draft him. I believe Colin cause I think he has alot of USC connections but still skeptical that they will actually stick to that threat. This would be such a win-win that I don’t know if was Caleb, the Bears, or the Commanders that leaked it out. DC would love to trade up and take the hometown player, Poles would love to stick with his guy Fields and add a ton of high draft picks to play with over the next two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 9 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said: Free agency is very deep at corner this year. Jaylon Johnson, L'Jarius Sneed, and Kendall Fuller could be signed and instantly be the CB1 on this team, and there are probably a dozen guys who could be signed to be CB2 across from Sutton (who will have hopefully figured it the **** out again by August). Given the goal next year is a Super Bowl, I don't think they will take a corner at #29, unless one of the top ones fall. Corners more often than not need time to develop (even more so than linebackers). I think they might take an heir apparent in the 2nd or 3rd round, but I think it'll be a plug-and-play edge rusher or DT at #29. jaylon johnson will not be a free agent. they will franchise him. sneed is unlikely to be either, but the chiefs have cap choices to make aince mahomes makes so much money. dont know about fuller. the usual rule is that really good players dont make it to free agency. usually, free agency is to build depth and fill holes, not to bring in difference makers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzer1 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 12 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said: Free agency is very deep at corner this year. Jaylon Johnson, L'Jarius Sneed, and Kendall Fuller could be signed and instantly be the CB1 on this team, and there are probably a dozen guys who could be signed to be CB2 across from Sutton (who will have hopefully figured it the **** out again by August). Given the goal next year is a Super Bowl, I don't think they will take a corner at #29, unless one of the top ones fall. Corners more often than not need time to develop (even more so than linebackers). I think they might take an heir apparent in the 2nd or 3rd round, but I think it'll be a plug-and-play edge rusher or DT at #29. I would expect Johnson and Sneed to be franchised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 13 hours ago, buddha said: ... sneed is unlikely to be either, but the chiefs have cap choices to make since mahomes makes so much money... Don't the Chiefs also have Chris Jones as a free agent? I think that's who gets franchised. I think Sneed slips into free agency due to Chief's cap woes... A prime target for the Lions. But... we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 The Lions won't pay for a free agent of Sneed's caliber and won't meet his likely asking price. We won't be getting A-Tier, top 20 free agents. I think we'll be looking at guys like Stephon Gilmore, Chidobe Awuzie, Kenny Moore, Adoree Jackson at CB. Guys that we can sign to 2-3 year deals that will be more team friendly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 I'll take one of each. Sneed and 1 of your guys... Oh, and a draftee to develop too...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 I've seen Nate Wiggins CB from Clemson mocked to the Lions before. He ran a 4.28 in the 40 at the combine. Teez Tabor he is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 29 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: I've seen Nate Wiggins CB from Clemson mocked to the Lions before. He ran a 4.28 in the 40 at the combine. Teez Tabor he is not. He doesn't tackle well. Holmes & DC will hate him. He won't be on their board AT ALL. Neither will "Kool-Aid". Just as an FYI. They like CB's who aren't afraid to tackle. DC and Glenn and Holmes have all said hard-nosed tackling is way high for them for a CB... That means the top of their CB list = Terrion Arnold ("aggressive tackler, works through blockers and gets after it as a tackler"), Quin Mitchell ("tackles like a safety, ball skills of a CB; hounds routes; physicality at catch point; tackles in run support and wraps up"), Ennis Rakestraw ("hard-nosed in press coverage/ good physicality/ rough ride for receivers when he jams; salty in run support with willingness to wrap, lift, and drop ball-carriers; drives hard/ well-timed punches"), Cooper DeJean ("charges hard and slams into pass-catchers; limited length = he slips off of some runners/ tackles; nice physicality"), TJ Tampa (more of a 2nd/3rd round type CB): ("physical as a striker, in coverage, and in run support, forceful route redirection when pressing"). Not Wiggins ("needs to become a tougher player in run support or when contesting catches against NFL size; allows too much cushion; disappointing awareness & effort in run support"), or McKinstry ("struggles against physical route-runners; content to stay in the background as a run defender; bad habit of sleeping on the play when he is not directly targeted"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) Daniel Jeremiah of NFL Network mocked us to take Zach Frazier, a Guard from West Virginia. I think this is the correct mock for the Lions and this front office. They do things opposite of fan and most media expectations. Everyone is screaming for a CB or pass rusher and they'll shore up their OL with a young, cheap Guard who is the BPA on their board. That likely means they will have let Jackson walk too. Don't expect this regime to draft for need or take a player at a position you would. They will draft the person who is the BPA on their board, regardless of position. No one expected them to draft a RB and an off-ball LB in the 1st and yet they did last year. No one expected them to trade up for a WR and yet they did. No one expected them to take two DTs back-to-back and yet they did. No one expected Hendon Hooker in the 3rd round. None of this is a problem as this front office has a great eye for talent and knows what they are doing in the draft unlike prior regimes. Edited March 3 by Mr.TaterSalad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 I would rather draft an elite talent at a low value position than an average talent at a high value position. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 I think that is Holmes' exact mindset. If they have a need at CB but none of the corners on their board grade out as highly a the guard on their board, they're always going to take the talent that grades out higher. They don't draft for need. They draft for talent and culture fit more than anything. This is a BPA front office in the draft, so as long as that guy fits their culture. Hence why they passed on a guy like Jalen Carter, who is immensely talented, but doesn't fit their culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 54 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I would rather draft an elite talent at a low value position than an average talent at a high value position. Like a kicker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 46 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: I think that is Holmes' exact mindset. ...they're always going to take the talent that grades out higher. They don't draft for need. They draft for talent and culture fit more than anything. This is a BPA front office in the draft, so as long as that guy fits their culture. Hence why they passed on a guy like Jalen Carter, who is immensely talented, but doesn't fit their culture. The first bolded part is not correct. You guys are confused. The second bolded part is what these guys keep saying, over and over and over... It's not the highest talent, or RAS, or "graded" player. It's not "oh we like this guard because he's a Lion even though this CB is also a Lion..." They rank positional value/ talent/ Lions' characteristics equally... BUT: missing Lions culture fit and they're off the board. Culture fit is a "MUST HAVE". But once you get past that culture fit... then they DO rank positional value and talent. There is also some maneuvering based on where a player is most likely to get drafted, or also known as "round grade". They had ranked Gibbs and Campbell as 1st round talents (on the Lions board; they'll have positions ranked based on their schemes, not on the rest of the NFL...). But above them both was Devon Witherspoon. They just lost their chance at Witherspoon to a team drafting ahead of them so they traded down, instead. I remember them saying specifically after the draft last year that they only had a "few" players "with a 1st round grade". So most players probably failed the culture fit test, no matter the talent. And I don't know/(remember) if they had a 1st round grade on LaPorta, but they were definitely "hot" to go after him. They traded up to get Branch. They probably also had only a few players with a 2nd round grade (fit for the Lions) and wanted him enough to trade up for him. But they traded BACK from the 2nd round, believing that Hooker would fall to the 3rd and they could get him there (buddha was correct on that), meaning they felt Hooker had a "3rd round grade" or would likely fall to there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 Speaking specifically about Frazier: He's also a Center. So they'll value him as a talent fit for what the Lions need: Someone who can step in at Guard but also cover Ragnow, if needed. And I think the Lions definitely need that kind of player, regardless what they do with Glasgow and Jonah. But if the following players all pass the culture fit test, and all the CB's are given "1st round grades" versus Frazier is evaluated as a "2nd round grade", then they'll select the CB: Rakestraw/ Arnold/ Mitchell/ DeJean. If Rakestraw & TJ Tampa are given middle-2nd round grades by the Lions (just for example) and Frazier a top of the 2nd round grade, they would pick Frazier. But I'm going to go back to that culture fit part... That ALSO weighs heavily not just as a pass-fail, but also as to the "round grade" of a player. If a player "is a BEAST" or "Excellent Culture Leader", I think that also boosts or degrades a players "round value". Rakestraw could be a "high 2nd" round value in terms of talent to the Lions, and Frazier might be a mid-2nd" in terms of talent... but if Frazier is a "BEAST" in the running game and an exceptional leader in the locker room and on the field... they might OVERRULE the "Talent" factor of Rakestraw and boost Frazier to "end-of-1st" value whilst keeping Rakestraw as a "2nd round" guy. I'm just sayin.... You can't just say "higher talent" or "BPA" or "need" with the Lions. IMO. Holmes and DC have a lot of nuances imbedded into their rankings and I don't think any of us can just simplify it into a BPA vs. Need or "higher talent" quip. These dudes are complicated in certain (winning... love it) ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) I really liked both of the Mizzou kids. They look to check all the boxes for what the Lions like. I’m not sure either will still be on the board. Side note that JJ McCarthy and Rome Odunze were some of the biggest winners this week. Definitely showed up and showed out. It pays to do drills at the combine. Jaylin Daniels may regret not participating. Edited March 4 by Hongbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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