Motown Bombers Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 How come Goff doesn’t get any credit for making a 4th round pick into a star? Or making a rookie TE into a star? Or making a waiver wire receiver like Reynolds into a solid 2/3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben9753 Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 12 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: How come Goff doesn’t get any credit for making a 4th round pick into a star? Or making a rookie TE into a star? Or making a waiver wire receiver like Reynolds into a solid 2/3? I wouldn’t say he doesn’t get any credit. He got 200 million credits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holygoat Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: How come Goff doesn’t get any credit for making a 4th round pick into a star? Or making a rookie TE into a star? Or making a waiver wire receiver like Reynolds into a solid 2/3? Because he can't run fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 7 hours ago, NYLion said: Trevor Lawrence at 3 is based on ??? I would rank St. Brown ahead of Hutch. He's top 5 as far as I'm concerned. Sewell, Gardner, Chase, St. Brown would be my top 4. I know that Wilson has had nothing for QBs throwing to him and he's quite a talent but how is he ranked ahead of St. Brown? Yeah I agree, it was only 1 season but it was so good that Id throw Stroud in there as well. Id certainly take him over Lawrence at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 It's definitely a factor for a WR as to who his QB is although I don't think Nacua is good just because of Stafford. If you watch his catches and what he does after the catch, they were top WR plays. Now if LA had a worse QB or a terrible OL, then perhaps you wouldn't see the numbers he had. Goff deserves credit but I am pretty sure Brown (and Nacua) would be good WR's on other teams. The eye test is probably the most important factor (on determining how good someone is) in football because there is always so many factors that help or prevent someone from being good. Its also sometimes on the WR to give confidence in his QB. Once that is established, they get more opportunities to prove themselves. I think this is going to be important with Jaymo. It seems like Goff had more confidence in him towards the end. Its also a timing factor. I am hoping discussion on here or sports radio (or even himself) can calm down the Goff respect discussion after he got his contract. Besides the extremes on both sides (he's a horrible QB or he's a top 3) I think most of us think he is a top 10-15 QB. I think we all agreed he deserved the shot at taking the Lions to a championship with a new contract. The cost was the big discussion and now that is done with, I think we can all move on. Where he ranks amongst QBs isn't important anymore. There are so many factors on what makes a great/good QB and variety of who are the best QB's in history shows that. What is important is if he can take us over the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Let's remember that Stafford was the QB for the receivers with the two most productive receiving seasons in NFL history. Taking nothing away from Johnson or Nakua (or Goff), but it's not a coincidence that Stafford was involved in these records. Also, while I'm at it, if my team is down by 6 with 48 seconds left, and I get to pick any QB to lead us down the field, it would be Stafford. But maybe for the other 59 minutes I have a slight preference at this point for Goff. He is a very talented QB. He deserves his contract. I'm glad he's here. He may end up winning more games (and Super Bowls) than Stafford, with fewer spectacular highlight plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 FWIW Goff has more 4th quarter comebacks than Stafford since the trade. The games against the Bears and Cowboys immediately come to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 I guess there will be Goff/Stafford comparisons until the end of time. Understood, they have a lot in common. Both were #1 picks, both played for only the Rams and Lions, they were traded for each other, ......etc I honestly think they are very close with talent and production. Stafford definitely has a better arm although Goff's is underrated. Goff is more accurate. Goff's mobility is about as bad as it gets although Stafford isn't exactly Michael Vick. I feel like their pocket presence is about the same. I feel like Goff's decision making is slightly better than Stafford's. Although that's so hard to establish because a lot has to do with the rest of the team. Stafford has gotten a lot better as he's gotten older. If you compare their ability to read defenses and make changes at the line at similar ages, Goff has been better earlier in his career (understand the quality of their teams at the same age is drastically different). They both struggle with bad decisions when under pressure. If you think winning percentage matters than Goff has the edge there. I think they both are liked by their teammates. When Stafford was with us, I was in the camp that if you put a team around him, he can win a championship. I usually stuck up for him when friends would want him traded. I was ready to move on though and loved the trade. I will admit that I thought Goff was a stop gap until we got that QB in the draft. Although I always thought he was a good QB and really was kind of surprised LA wanted to move on so much from him. I do think that if there was a Trevor Lawrence or Caleb Williams in the 2022 draft or if we had the #1 pick in the 2021 draft, we would of moved on from Goff. I am happy with our situation now. We are definitely in the mix for a championship in the next 2-3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 (edited) Goff and Stafford are mirrors of each other. Stafford peaked in year 3 at age 23 when he had that 5,000 yard and 41 TD season and the Lions won 10 games and made the playoffs. Goff was 23 at the start of the 2018 season and had 4,600 yards and 32 TDs and went to the Super Bowl. From 2012 to 2014, age 24-26 seasons, Stafford regressed. He had only a 59% completion percentage, 83 QB rating, and 48 INTs. Stafford had talent around him. He had, at various times, during this stretch Calvin Johnson, Golden Tate, Pettigrew, Bush and Bell. Goff from 19-21 regressed, age 24-26 seasons, and had a 65% completion percentage, 89 QB rating, and 37 INTs. Goff was better during this down stretch, however, a narrative was started because the offensive genius of our generation benched Goff for Wolford (LOL), and paid a 1st round pick to make him go away. Stafford stayed in Detroit and remained irrelevant. In 2015 Stafford was paired with Jim Bob Cooter at age 27 and took off. Probably Stafford's best season as he set career highs in QB rating and soared to a 67% completion percentage and kept the turnovers down. Stafford would go on to play at this level for the rest of his career. Jim Bob Cooter is an afterthought. No one wanted to hire him as head coach. No one gave him credit for resurrecting Stafford. In 2022 at age 27 Goff is paired with Ben Johnson. A TE coach who never called plays at the NFL level, and Goff had one of the better seasons of his career. He set a career low in INTs and his QB rating jumped to 99.3. Goff has continued to play at this high level ever since. Ben Johnson, who has never called a single offensive play without Goff as his QB, gets all the credit. Edited May 22 by Motown Bombers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 These are always fun to watch years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnoxP Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: These are always fun to watch years later. This is a classic example of why all of these guys are little more than shouting, trying to be relevant with a cool take, 🤡's. All the supporting 'evidence' they offer for their opinion is past HISTORY, where almost all of the significant variables were changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 1 hour ago, KnoxP said: This is a classic example of why all of these guys are little more than shouting, trying to be relevant with a cool take, 🤡's. All the supporting 'evidence' they offer for their opinion is past HISTORY, where almost all of the significant variables were changed. Most of the national media didn't even watch the press conference. Campbell was up there for about 90 minutes and talked a lot of substance. They all focused on the kneecap quote. There is a disconnect between the national media and players and fans as that speech was well received by fans and players. I was skeptical about Campbell because he wasn't a play caller and I was ready to put on the pads after that press conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 If Dan Campbell ever finds himself out of a coaching job, the networks or going to fight each other to hire him as an analyst. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
number20 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 Goff ranked 16th? I know he isn't Patrick Mahomes, but wow... https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-quarterback-rankings-all-32-starters-2024-nfl-season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 5 minutes ago, number20 said: Goff ranked 16th? I know he isn't Patrick Mahomes, but wow... https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-quarterback-rankings-all-32-starters-2024-nfl-season Death, taxes, and Goff being underrated by the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 6 minutes ago, number20 said: Goff ranked 16th? I know he isn't Patrick Mahomes, but wow... https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-quarterback-rankings-all-32-starters-2024-nfl-season That works GREAT for fantasy if you can get him on the cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
number20 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 (edited) 55 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said: Death, taxes, and Goff being underrated by the media. 5 postseason wins, played his way to a Super Bowl, 30 minutes from a second... and he isn't even good enough for the "Postseason-Caliber QBs" list. But C.J. Stroud is, with his one wildcard win. Caleb Williams is in there. College QB, never played an NFL game. I guess he belongs if he's considered a 'starting QB', but ranked ahead of Baker Mayfield? Dak Prescott... sixth? What a strange article Edited May 23 by number20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 (edited) 16th is ridiculous. It really amazes me how someone evaluates players. I definitely think a QB should be evaluated based on multiple things. Win percentage, measurables, eye tests, OL ranking, decision making, stats, durability......etc. How Goff is below half these guys is just plain stupid. You have to put him in the top 10 for his playoff record alone. I have commented multiple times about his play when under pressure. Although that is every QB outside of Mahomes. Even mobile QBs make bad decisions a lot of the time under pressure. It's nice to have the option to run for 20 yards on a broken play but a lot of the time they do something stupid. Its very lazy to not consider changes a QB makes at the line of scrimmage. Or the check downs. Jackson is #2 and don't get me wrong, if I had to choose between having Goff and Lamar, I would pick Lamar (its not a slam dunk though). Although, 14 spots ahead of him is just bad evaluation. All that said, I would put him around 6-8 at this point in his career. Mahomes, Burrow, Jackson, Allen are above him for sure (most will agree with this). Hurts and Herbert could be ahead of him as well. I'm sorry but these guys like Stroud and Love definitely look like studs and could easily be a top 5 QB but you have to do it for more than 1 year. Lawrence, Tua are good QB's and have potential if they can stay healthy but not above Goff. Purdy is Goff with less years and hasn't been on a bad team yet. Rodgers, Cousins, and Stafford are definitely capable of being a top 5 QB but their age should bring them down. Edited May 23 by Jimbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 I've noticed the PFF people don't like Goff but their grading system does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 To me Burrow is overrated and shouldn't be put in the elite tier like people always seem to do. He had a great run a few years ago but otherwise if you look at his raw stats and most metrics they are negliglibly better than Goff's at best. Not to mention his injury history and the fact the Bengals offense didn't drop off much with Browning and I just don't think he is as great as people make him out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 Goff's numbers stack up well with most QBs. He just doesn't win style points and hasn't shaken all the narratives from the Rams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 well now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 9 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: well now lets hope so. that's the biggest weakness on the roster. the rest of the team is pretty complete (although they need jack campbell to make some improvements this year). oh, and they have to fire ben johnson. i've been told he's weighing them down... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 50 minutes ago, buddha said: lets hope so. that's the biggest weakness on the roster. the rest of the team is pretty complete (although they need jack campbell to make some improvements this year). oh, and they have to fire ben johnson. i've been told he's weighing them down... I don’t think it’s the biggest weakness. Receiver was a strength last year, and I don’t think losing just Josh Reynolds makes it a weakness. I think a lot of the concern was also there when we lost Chark last year, and we were fine. I think the biggest weakness in the short-term is still the secondary. It’s been overhauled, but It’s likely we’ll be counting on at least one, if not two, rookies to start in week one. The best veteran corner is also new to the team and system. Some of the returning players (Branch) may be asked to play a new position. The talent is there, and if Arnold is as good as advertised, they’ll be fine. But it’s a lot to ask rookies to come in and contribute week one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.