MichiganCardinal Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 2 hours ago, buddha said: you guys are nuts. you'd rather have goff than the best player in the league in his prime and a certified hall of famer. you dont think mahomes can hit st brown in stride? or laporta on schedule? this is the kind of thing we argue about in the offseason. lol. It’s a silly and artificially created vacuum (that I myself created), but yes. This is year four with Dan Campbell, Ben Johnson, ASB, 3/5 of the OL, and Jared Goff. You can add a few more that it’s year three and a few more with year two. There is chemistry and consistency there. A random swap for any other QB in the league, even the best in the league, would cause question marks for the chemistry amongst those pieces. I don’t think the NFL works in a way that you can take a really good QB and just insert him on another team and expect instant success. The offense has been built around and is designed to work for Jared Goff. Obviously outside that vacuum where I pretend to only care about 2024, I would take Mahomes over Goff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 Mahomes needs to prove it without Andy Reid and a great supporting cast like Travis Kelce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 17 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Under most measures, when Goff has a clean pocket, he is better than Mahomes. Goff is usually best in the league. He's not simply good but elite. Goff can handle some pressure. When the pocket is collapsing, he can make throws out of the phone booth with pressure in his face. The pressure he can't handle is when he has to move his feet, reset, and throw, or throw on the run, or simply run for a gain. Goff, however, knows his limitations and doesn't do that often and gets rid of the ball instead of taking a sack or making a bad play. Goff is also 2-0 versus Mahomes. Ball don’t lie. 😅 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 Signing Bates for two years makes me think the job is effectively his. It’s not a tryout against Badgley and Turner, it’s his job to lose. There is no incentive to release either Badgley or Turner right now, but I expect that Bates would have to perform exceptionally poorly to lose the job before the season starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 1 minute ago, MichiganCardinal said: Signing Bates for two years makes me think the job is effectively his. It’s not a tryout against Badgley and Turner, it’s his job to lose. There is no incentive to release either Badgley or Turner right now, but I expect that Bates would have to perform exceptionally poorly to lose the job before the season starts. Maybe but we have no idea what the money or fine print is on the contract. He’s still a rookie kicker with no NFL experience so the numbers can’t be that high even with competition for his services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 Didn’t realize how many field goals he missed with the Panthers. Obviously has a big leg, but hope he can improve his accuracy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 He's 6-10 from 50+. He's pretty good under 50 but Badgely is too. I would feel more confident rolling Bates out there in 50+ attempts. Another benefit is the NFL is using the UFL still kickoff so Bates has experience with those kickoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 This is year four with Dan Campbell, Ben Johnson, ASB, 3/5 of the OL, and Jared Goff. You can add a few more that it’s year three and a few more with year two. There is chemistry and consistency there. A random swap for any other K in the league, even the best in the league, would cause question marks for the chemistry amongst those pieces. I don’t think the NFL works in a way that you can take a really good K and just insert him on another team and expect instant success. The kicking game has been built around and is designed to work for Michael Badgley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 13 minutes ago, Hongbit said: This is year four with Dan Campbell, Ben Johnson, ASB, 3/5 of the OL, and Jared Goff. You can add a few more that it’s year three and a few more with year two. There is chemistry and consistency there. A random swap for any other K in the league, even the best in the league, would cause question marks for the chemistry amongst those pieces. I don’t think the NFL works in a way that you can take a really good K and just insert him on another team and expect instant success. The kicking game has been built around and is designed to work for Michael Badgley. Yeah but Michael Badgley can’t throw the deep ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 Goff is basically Mahomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holygoat Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said: Another benefit is the NFL is using the UFL still kickoff so Bates has experience with those kickoffs. I think this plays as large a role as his 50+ percentage. Kickers will be more involved in the coverage part of kickoffs now, and Bates is 6-1 205, whereas Badgely is 5-10 190. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 The Lions are signing Bates to a 2 year contract on Tuesday. Holmes says he's fine with keeping 3 kickers because the new kickoff rules makes them more prone to injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 5 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: The Lions are signing Bates to a 2 year contract on Tuesday. Holmes says he's fine with keeping 3 kickers because the new kickoff rules makes them more prone to injury. On the 53? Or stash two of them on the Practice Squad? How exactly are we thinking that's going to work...? 3 on the 53 seems a bit... much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 (edited) 13 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: On the 53? Or stash two of them on the Practice Squad? How exactly are we thinking that's going to work...? 3 on the 53 seems a bit... much. The article in the free press said the practice squad is a possibility. I don't see it but stashing one there makes sense. Edited June 16 by Sports_Freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Consider it, sure. We don’t need three kickers, new rules or not. I don’t think Bates makes it past waivers to the practice squad though. Badgley probably would. Turner almost certainly would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 2 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said: Consider it, sure. We don’t need three kickers, new rules or not. I don’t think Bates makes it past waivers to the practice squad though. Badgley probably would. Turner almost certainly would. Well, signing Bates for 2 years is telling. I think the job may be his to lose. And they say Turner has a big leg, accuracy may be his biggest problem. That may leave Bagley out of the picture. It would be a nice problem to have, too many good kickers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 On 6/15/2024 at 10:29 AM, MichiganCardinal said: I don’t think the NFL works in a way that you can take a really good QB and just insert him on another team and expect instant success I think there is some truth to this generally but you can't say it categorically since you have the recent examples of Stafford and Brady winning Championships in their first year on a new team as counter cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 4 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: I think there is some truth to this generally but you can't say it categorically since you have the recent examples of Stafford and Brady winning Championships in their first year on a new team as counter cases. I think Brady may be the exception. But he's the exception to a lot of NFL "rules". We will never know, but I think Goff's recent success with Detroit undermines the notion that Stafford was the one thing they needed to win the Super Bowl. Not to say Stafford isn't really good and didn't lead his team to instant success. That did happen. But I'm not positive it wouldn't have happened with Goff; or rather, I'm not positive QB was the "problem" in LA. It was more complicated than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 (edited) I think this discussion about Mahomes is ridiculous. In an alternate universe and we had our exact roster (and coaches and GM) with Mahomes as our QB, we would be a dynasty team. This has nothing to do with the value of Goff or Stafford. Goff and Stafford contributed directly to what our current situation is both with play and draft picks that directly landed contributing players. I just feel like Mahomes is a one in a generation type player. I feel like that for more than one reason. First is the eye test which I think is underrated when evaluating a player. He's not the most accurate, fastest, or is most mobile. He just has the it factor and makes plays to win games. He (or the team) might look terrible for 3 quarters but he is just the player that wins games when you need him to. Second is he has already done it more than any other current player (he's still a pretty young QB). He has done it with a depleted roster. He has done it injured. In the NFL, you can not win with one player and you do need to have a great coaching staff and GM that results in a good roster. Although Mahomes is the one player I feel like currently in the NFL that could do it with the least amount of quality players around him. Will he be better than Brady (as far as Championships and stats)? If I was betting, I would say no because I just think a lot more still has to happen and he would have to stay healthy and play into his mid 40's. Although if there was a player that had a chance, its him. Goff is a top 5 QB (with good OL and talent around him) and a top 15 QB (with a bad OL and with bad talent around him). Which could be good enough to win one or multiple championships (still to be determined). With Goff, you need to build around. Mahomes would make any team instantly better. He's just that guy. Edited June 18 by Jimbo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 On 6/16/2024 at 5:37 PM, Sports_Freak said: The article in the free press said the practice squad is a possibility. I don't see it but stashing one there makes sense. So are they going to have kickers doing tackle drills during practice? I wonder how good a tackler Jason Hanson was, he sure could kick though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Lions released their 3rd kicker so it's just Badgely and Bates. Kansas City said they were toying with the idea of using a safety to kickoff because apparently Mr Masculinity can't tackle. Maybe the Lions use Vaki on kickoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRamage Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 On 6/17/2024 at 1:32 PM, MichiganCardinal said: I think Brady may be the exception. But he's the exception to a lot of NFL "rules". We will never know, but I think Goff's recent success with Detroit undermines the notion that Stafford was the one thing they needed to win the Super Bowl. Not to say Stafford isn't really good and didn't lead his team to instant success. That did happen. But I'm not positive it wouldn't have happened with Goff; or rather, I'm not positive QB was the "problem" in LA. It was more complicated than that. The NFL in generally is never just one thing. An average QB behind a stellar line, with amazing rbs and wrs will put up pro-bowl numbers. A fantastic offense will allow even a QB like Trent Dilfer to win it all. Goff and McVay apparently didn't mesh. Was it Goff's fault for not listening to McVay wanted him to do? Was it McVay's fault for not trying to putting in the plays that Goff could execute? I have no special insight or knowledge beyond any other fan of the game so take it for what it's worth, but given than McVay did have success with Goff early in his career it would seem to me that McVay knew what Goff could excel at and should have been able to cater the game plan to that. I suppose we'd really need to see if the game plan of the 17 and 18 Rams was different than the game plan of 19 and 20. I'm not qualified to do that review but if it's largely the same type of plays and styles, I'd probably lay more blame at the feet of Goff (not all). If it's different I'd say McVay is more at fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 3 minutes ago, RedRamage said: The NFL in generally is never just one thing. An average QB behind a stellar line, with amazing rbs and wrs will put up pro-bowl numbers. A fantastic offense will allow even a QB like Trent Dilfer to win it all. Goff and McVay apparently didn't mesh. Was it Goff's fault for not listening to McVay wanted him to do? Was it McVay's fault for not trying to putting in the plays that Goff could execute? I have no special insight or knowledge beyond any other fan of the game so take it for what it's worth, but given than McVay did have success with Goff early in his career it would seem to me that McVay knew what Goff could excel at and should have been able to cater the game plan to that. I suppose we'd really need to see if the game plan of the 17 and 18 Rams was different than the game plan of 19 and 20. I'm not qualified to do that review but if it's largely the same type of plays and styles, I'd probably lay more blame at the feet of Goff (not all). If it's different I'd say McVay is more at fault. Every time I rewatch the Rams/Lions playoff game, the thing the sticks out to me is how conservative the Rams were. 3 times in the red zone they settled for field goals. With a veteran QB in Stafford, the inability of turning one of those field goals into a TD was the difference in the game. Playing scared in the NFL rarely works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 minute ago, Sports_Freak said: Every time I rewatch the Rams/Lions playoff game, the thing the sticks out to me is how conservative the Rams were. 3 times in the red zone they settled for field goals. With a veteran QB in Stafford, the inability of turning one of those field goals into a TD was the difference in the game. Playing scared in the NFL rarely works. In fairness, those weren’t obvious “go” situations. Monday Morning QB says, you lost by one you should have pushed it more. But without looking it up, they were all 4th and moderate or 4th and long situations where I think Campbell would have kicked it too. There weren’t any 4th and inches on the 2 where they kicked it. credit to Detroit’s defense for not breaking in the red zone. One of them I think Stafford was even hurt for and couldn’t have been in even if they wanted to go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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