2024 Detroit Tigers Spring Training Thread

[SkyBlue]

21 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

A few thoughts on the upcoming season;

1. The team that comes north will probably look much different than the team this summer. There are usually several call-ups during May and June. Injuries and ineffectiveness.

2. We'll see what players think about playing in 40⁰ weather next week. All that training down in 80⁰ Florida is fun but does it really get them ready for the first 6 weeks or so of really cold weather?

3. For the last 2 or 3 years, all I've heard, over and over, is how we'll have so much money to spend on some quality players once we shed Cabrera's contract. What did we add? A journeyman outfielder who's upside is that he's good at.....getting hit by pitches? And Tiger fans are making excuses for Scott Harris? Yeah, OK...maybe next year we'll spend money on some players.

4. Our Starting Pitchers look ready to compete. Yes, we have a few quality arms. But let's get thru the first 6 weeks without any injuries. Our team has been destroyed by pitchers injuries the last few years. The top 3 pitchers in the minor leagues better stay ready. 

5. And finally, our bullpen. Believe it or not, this is what will determine whether we finish close to .500 or not. Hopefully, our SP will keep us in games. But our anemic offense may mean our BP arms are the difference between being a decent team or being a bottom feeder.

All in all...this team will struggle to get to .500. Getting off to another horrible start may have fans calling for Hinch to be fired.

 

 

1.  This is normal for baseball not just Detroit.

2.  I'm pretty sure the majority of the Tigers roster has played baseball in northern cities during the spring, doubt any will be suprised. Assuming this point was just a throw in negative point yet seems a reach.

3.  Are we complaining that they didn't go and spend a bunch of money this offseason?   I, for one, probably in the minority on this board, like the approach they took and didn't feel now was the time to spend big dollars.  I do think Chris I will spend when Harris and Hinch ask him to do so.

4. Agree to a point, not really judging this team based on last years team or injuries.  Good news is we seem to have SP depth in Toledo and Erie.  Some quality depth.

5. BP will definitely play a big role as it usually does.  I agree offense remains a question mark but I like the addition of Keith and the addition of Urshela.  

6.  Hinch isn't in any trouble good start or bad.  I 100% agree that team needs a better start this spring.

[Sports_Freak]

4 hours ago, SkyBlue said:

 

1.  This is normal for baseball not just Detroit.

2.  I'm pretty sure the majority of the Tigers roster has played baseball in northern cities during the spring, doubt any will be suprised. Assuming this point was just a throw in negative point yet seems a reach.

3.  Are we complaining that they didn't go and spend a bunch of money this offseason?   I, for one, probably in the minority on this board, like the approach they took and didn't feel now was the time to spend big dollars.  I do think Chris I will spend when Harris and Hinch ask him to do so.

4. Agree to a point, not really judging this team based on last years team or injuries.  Good news is we seem to have SP depth in Toledo and Erie.  Some quality depth.

5. BP will definitely play a big role as it usually does.  I agree offense remains a question mark but I like the addition of Keith and the addition of Urshela.  

6.  Hinch isn't in any trouble good start or bad.  I 100% agree that team needs a better start this spring.

5. I have Scott Sizemore memories. Handing the 2nd base job to a player with zero MLB experience. It didn't work with Sizemore, hopefully Keith can hit a little. But thinking an addition of un unproven player is a plus is being shortsighted. Nobody really knows how/if he'll perform.

[Sports_Freak]

20 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Im not going to say Spring Training stats are useless but I think unless you truly break them down or look closely at each at bat they can be extremely misleading which is why I doubt many teams put too much stock in them when deciding on who to keep.

Extreme situation but for simplicity sake lets say a guy could go 10-10 against pitchers that are destined for the minor leagues but goes 0-20 against actual major league pitching. Yeah as a whole their stat line wouldn't look bad but if you looked deeper at the numbers or followed every at bat you would see that he probably isn't ready or has what it takes to hit major league pitching.

 

Many ST stats are useless. Look at what Javy did all spring and compare it to Kreidler. Ryan should have made the team. But it's all about money...

Spring stats; Kreidler hit .355 with two home runs, eight walks and 10 strikeouts over 40 plate appearances in 18 games during spring training.

[chasfh]

5 hours ago, SkyBlue said:

 

1.  This is normal for baseball not just Detroit.

2.  I'm pretty sure the majority of the Tigers roster has played baseball in northern cities during the spring, doubt any will be suprised. Assuming this point was just a throw in negative point yet seems a reach.

3.  Are we complaining that they didn't go and spend a bunch of money this offseason?   I, for one, probably in the minority on this board, like the approach they took and didn't feel now was the time to spend big dollars.  I do think Chris I will spend when Harris and Hinch ask him to do so.

4. Agree to a point, not really judging this team based on last years team or injuries.  Good news is we seem to have SP depth in Toledo and Erie.  Some quality depth.

5. BP will definitely play a big role as it usually does.  I agree offense remains a question mark but I like the addition of Keith and the addition of Urshela.  

6.  Hinch isn't in any trouble good start or bad.  I 100% agree that team needs a better start this spring.

1. Agree.
2. I do think this season is a little unusual in that before May 17, more than a quarter into the season, the Tigers play exclusively outdoors in cold weather cities, except for one series in Tampa. That's 40 of the first 43 games. I think in most seasons we play more games in domes or warm weather towns during the first quarter of the season. It might be more of a challenge than normal although, to your point, professionals know how to play in cold weather.
3. Agree, and you're not in the minority on that here. This team is both not in a position where a big-money signing means the difference between playing baseball and playing golf on October 25th; and we're not a top destination for top talent just yet.
4. We have probably the deepest starting pitching this season than arguably any time since I have been alive, even if the rotation itself is not so close to the best we've ever had. By which I mean, it's not as big a drop from #5 to #6, or #5 to #7, or #5 to #8, than has typically been the case for us.
5. BP is short for batting practice. Also, preëmptively, DH is short for designated hitter. 😉
6. Not only may Hinch never be fired by the Tigers, I think there's a very good chance he moves from the field to our front office when it's time.

 

Edited March 24 by chasfh

[Tiger337]

24 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Many ST stats are useless. Look at what Javy did all spring and compare it to Kreidler. Ryan should have made the team. But it's all about money...

Spring stats; Kreidler hit .355 with two home runs, eight walks and 10 strikeouts over 40 plate appearances in 18 games during spring training.

I'd rather see Kreidler at SS than Baez just because I don't like them being stuck with Baez for four years.  However, I have no more confidnce in Kreidler than I do in Baez as a regular over a full season.  

[Longgone]

1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

Many ST stats are useless. Look at what Javy did all spring and compare it to Kreidler. Ryan should have made the team. But it's all about money...

Spring stats; Kreidler hit .355 with two home runs, eight walks and 10 strikeouts over 40 plate appearances in 18 games during spring training.

Here's why spring training stats mean nothing; first, small samples, you could take a random 40 ab sample from throughout the regular season, and the same player could look like a hall of famer or the biggest piece of crap, neither of which is indicative of his true ability. Secondly, you are dealing with players not yet in shape, don't yet have their timing, may be out of sync implementing mechanical changes, may be dealing with an injury, and they may be facing major leaguers not game ready, or minor leaguers far from the bigs, etc. etc.

Spring stats mean nothing.

Edited March 24 by Longgone

[chasfh]

8 minutes ago, Longgone said:

Here's why spring training stats mean nothing; first, small samples, you could take a random 40 ab sample from throughout the regular season, and the same player could look like a hall of famer or the biggest piece of crap, neither of which is indicative of his true ability. Secondly, you are dealing with players not yet in shape, don't yet have their timing, may be out of sync implementing mechanical changes, may be dealing with an injury, etc. etc.

Spring stats mean nothing.

Case in point:

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

I'd rather see Kreidler at SS than Baez just because I don't like them being stuck with Baez for four years.  However, I have no more confidnce in Kreidler than I do in Baez as a regular over a full season.  

If the Tigers can't find a better shortstop than Vintage 2023 Javier Baez within the next four years, I might actually start losing faith in the Harris administration.

[gehringer_2]

4 minutes ago, Longgone said:

Spring stats mean nothing

at minimum Kreidler has to prove he can hit regular season AAA pitching with enough success to imply he has any chance against MLB pitchers, which he has yet to do. I'm rooting for him but he's not shown adequate evidence the can hit in the majors yet. 

Javy actually had a couple of good AB today and he has tagged a few more pitches in the last few days. We all seem to be persuaded this coaching staff is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and there is no doubt Javy is a uniquely talented athlete, so I'm fine with letting it play to see what they can accomplish. There is a lot fan talk about him not being willing to work but that's just social media flotsam, everyone near the team says he is busting his butt doing what they are asking. 

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, chasfh said:

If the Tigers can't find a better shortstop than Vintage 2023 Javier Baez within the next four years, I might actually start losing faith in the Harris administration.

If Javy shows no improvement, SS will be the obvious target in a trade of XS pitching.

[Sports_Freak]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

I'd rather see Kreidler at SS than Baez just because I don't like them being stuck with Baez for four years.  However, I have no more confidnce in Kreidler than I do in Baez as a regular over a full season.  

I don't know. I'm so sick of watching Javy flail away at down and away sliders. Its a sunk cost and it's more expensive when you consider he actually costs us games with his horrible approach. Ryan, at least according to articles, was hurt and had core surgery. "They" say he's our best fielding SS, so his defense wouldn't hurt us. Anything he could give us at the plate would be a bonus. And could he really do any worse than Beaz?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/detroit-tigers-shortstop-ryan-kreidler-is-headed-to-toledo-i-shouldve-made-the-team/ar-BB1koOkQ

[RandyMarsh]

Javy sucked offensively in 2020, had a great 6 week stretch with the Mets in 2021 to boost his numbers, sucked in 2022, sucked in 2023 and has looked lost thus far in 2024 albeit a small spring training sample size. The odds of him suddenly turning around and being close to average offensively is slim to none for me. 

Edited March 24 by RandyMarsh

[Sports_Freak]

32 minutes ago, Longgone said:

Here's why spring training stats mean nothing; first, small samples, you could take a random 40 ab sample from throughout the regular season, and the same player could look like a hall of famer or the biggest piece of crap, neither of which is indicative of his true ability. Secondly, you are dealing with players not yet in shape, don't yet have their timing, may be out of sync implementing mechanical changes, may be dealing with an injury, and they may be facing major leaguers not game ready, or minor leaguers far from the bigs, etc. etc.

Spring stats mean nothing.

They don't mean as much on a team with established stars. But there are eye opening players during ST. I remember a time when Verlander and Zumaya made the team with very strong springs. But yeah, most of the time the spring stats are meaningless.

[Sports_Freak]

1 minute ago, RandyMarsh said:

Javy sucked offensively in 2020, had a great 6 week stretch with the Mets in 2021 to boost his numbers, sucked in 2022, sucked in 2023 and has looked lost thus far in 2024 albeit a small spring training sample size. The odds of him suddenly turning around and being close to average offensively is slim to none for me. 

I agree. Like I said, it's a sunk cost. But we should just run him out there, game after game? I hope Kreidler tears it up down in Toledo and forces the Tigers hand. I have more hope for him than I do for Javy.

[RandyMarsh]

6 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

They don't mean as much on a team with established stars. But there are eye opening players during ST. I remember a time when Verlander and Zumaya made the team with very strong springs. But yeah, most of the time the spring stats are meaningless.

I think it was the overall stuff that them two showed that helped them make the team and not necessarily the stats. For instance if they put up great stats but were throwing 90 instead of a 100 I'm not so sure they make it. 

[gehringer_2]

22 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

I don't know. I'm so sick of watching Javy flail away at down and away sliders=

All right hand hitters flail at down and away sliders. As a Tiger JD Martinez regualrly  flailed at down and away sliders, Lance Parrish regularly flailed at down and away sliders. We are all hyper-conditioned to watching for it with Javy now so that is all we see. But that is not really even his problem. His problem is not that he gets fooled strikes out more than he used to, he doesn't. His problem is he's not hitting the pitches he swings at in the zone. Can the Tigers get him to where he figures it out? Who knows, but they have $98M reasons to keep trying!  

Plus as has been noted, there is no even remotely sure thing in the system anywhere close to replace him. McGonigle maybe - and he's probably 2 yrs away. The Dodgers brought Leonard along mostly as a SS but the consensus seems to be he can't hold down SS in the majors. Santana is pretty much a bust, Workman's glove is supposed to be OK but he can't get his Ks into any reasonable range. And Kreidler hit 220 in his age 25 AAA season. So looking at the system there isn't much grounds for optimism. Granted the chances of improving Javy are probably not very good, but this season they are probably still better than the hope in other options, barring  a trade.

Edited March 24 by gehringer_2

[RandyMarsh]

I do feel that if the Tigers had anybody they were truly confident in that they would be starting over Javy regardless of Javy's contract. I don't buy into the fact that they are starting him solely based on that. If they had a Jackson Holliday in their system right now I can almost guarantee he'd be on the team and Javy would either be DFA'd or relegated to the bench. 

[Longgone]

18 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

They don't mean as much on a team with established stars. But there are eye opening players during ST. I remember a time when Verlander and Zumaya made the team with very strong springs. But yeah, most of the time the spring stats are meaningless.

Their strong spring had everything to do with the level of ability they had attained, and nothing to do with their spring stats.

[Sports_Freak]

1 minute ago, RandyMarsh said:

I do feel that if the Tigers had anybody they were truly confident in that they would be starting over Javy regardless of Javy's contract. I don't buy into the fact that they are starting him solely based on that. If they had a Jackson Holliday in their system right now I can almost guarantee he'd be on the team and Javy would either be DFA'd or relegated to the bench. 

Maybe after his contract expires, we'll be able to afford some real players. We said that for the last 2 or 3 years of Miggys contract and look at all the All-Star players we signed...😆

[Sports_Freak]

1 minute ago, Longgone said:

Their strong spring had everything to do with the level of ability they had attained, and nothing to do with their spring stats.

They had strong springs and made the team. Saying spring training doesn't mean anything isn't always true. Players make a team or get cut from their spring performance every year. Some of it shows up in the spring stats, sure. But look at Torkelson this spring, he's hitting under .200. There's no doubt in my mind he wouldn't make a ML team if he were a rookie. So yeah, sometimes stats don't matter. But we also have a BP battle of 4 pitchers for 2 spots. I bet spring stats will be part of that decision. As well as who has options left. Spring performance matters, sometimes.

[Longgone]

1 minute ago, Sports_Freak said:

They had strong springs and made the team. Saying spring training doesn't mean anything isn't always true. Players make a team or get cut from their spring performance every year. Some of it shows up in the spring stats, sure. But look at Torkelson this spring, he's hitting under .200. There's no doubt in my mind he wouldn't make a ML team if he were a rookie. So yeah, sometimes stats don't matter. But we also have a BP battle of 4 pitchers for 2 spots. I bet spring stats will be part of that decision. As well as who has options left. Spring performance matters, sometimes.

Ability matters, performance matters. Stats may or may not reflect those two, so by themselves, stats don’t really matter in the spring environment  and with such small samples.

[Longgone]

5 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

They had strong springs and made the team. Saying spring training doesn't mean anything isn't always true. Players make a team or get cut from their spring performance every year. Some of it shows up in the spring stats, sure. But look at Torkelson this spring, he's hitting under .200. There's no doubt in my mind he wouldn't make a ML team if he were a rookie. So yeah, sometimes stats don't matter. But we also have a BP battle of 4 pitchers for 2 spots. I bet spring stats will be part of that decision. As well as who has options left. Spring performance matters, sometimes.

What if a couple of big leaguers had run into a couple of Zumayas fastballs with men on instead of missing them? It’s baseball, could easily happen. That drastically changes his stats. Does that change his capabilities or projection? Does it alter the team’s perception of him? Not at all.

[SkyBlue]

2 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

5. I have Scott Sizemore memories. Handing the 2nd base job to a player with zero MLB experience. It didn't work with Sizemore, hopefully Keith can hit a little. But thinking an addition of un unproven player is a plus is being shortsighted. Nobody really knows how/if he'll perform.

 I understand and remember him as well.

Keith has played at second, sure small sample size, however his coaching and development in Detroit is far superior to anything Sizemore had in his brief tenure in Detroit.  I also like the Urshela signing.  But, offense is most definitely the biggest question mark for this team.

[1984Echoes]

33 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

... Santana is pretty much a bust, Workman's glove is supposed to be OK but he can't get his Ks into any reasonable range. And Kreidler hit 220 in his age 25 AAA season...

Workman looks like the next Kreidler...

And Santana is a baby, not a bust.

Which doesn't change the rest of your narrative... We've got nothing in the system high enough/ close enough/ or performing well enough to indicate we have another option aside from Javy Baez. At least in the near term...

[Sports_Freak]

13 minutes ago, Longgone said:

Ability matters, performance matters. Stats may or may not reflect those two, so by themselves, stats don’t really matter in the spring environment  and with such small samples.

Ok. So if Brieske had a 28.50 ERA he would make the team as long as he was throwing quality strikes? Stats are a part of the decision on who makes a team, sometimes. Other (most) times, I agree, they're very meaningless.