Tenacious D Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 We have seen some monster offensive seasons in this ballpark. Multiple MVP’s, batting crowns, HR titles. In addition to Miggy’s overall output, we saw incredible performances by Magglio and Granderson (2007), and the Martinez brothers (Victor and JD). Maybe park performance has been influenced by bad offensive teams since 2015? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 23 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: We have seen some monster offensive seasons in this ballpark. Multiple MVP’s, batting crowns, HR titles. In addition to Miggy’s overall output, we saw incredible performances by Magglio and Granderson (2007), and the Martinez brothers (Victor and JD). Maybe park performance has been influenced by bad offensive teams since 2015? Exactly. A team full of AAA hitters would show limited power numbers for a ballpark over the 81 home games per season. But to say any power hitters would turn down millions of dollars to play in that park is kind of ridiculous. The much, much more obvious answer is the Tigers organization didn't offer any players a contract to play here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyBlue Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 3 hours ago, chasfh said: Fair point. Here is the 2023 data only: Where does that leave us? 10% below league average? Hopefully we can lower that a tad more to middle of the pack instead of 9th worst as the young guys gain experience and add power. Granted that is only from the Tigers side of the equation. I also don't know how the Tigers home scheduled was when looking into who they played at home in 2023 vs 2024 as the opponents will factor into the number. So, too small a sample size at this point to draw a definitive conclusion at this point other than not the worst in the league. So,where does that leave us? TBD, but not worst in the league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 2 hours ago, Tenacious D said: We have seen some monster offensive seasons in this ballpark. Multiple MVP’s, batting crowns, HR titles. In addition to Miggy’s overall output, we saw incredible performances by Magglio and Granderson (2007), and the Martinez brothers (Victor and JD). Maybe park performance has been influenced by bad offensive teams since 2015? Park factors are based on Tigers and opponents at home, versus Tiger and opponents on the road. Park factors have little if anything to do with how good or bad the players on our particular team are. In 2012, Miggy’s Triple Crown year, Comerica’s HR park factor was 95 for just that year, and 96 on a rolling 3-year. In 2007, the HR park factor was 112 for that year, but 96 on a rolling 3-year. So there are spikes here and there on a season-to-season basis, which is why they do a rolling 3-year park factor to smooth out the spikes. On the whole, throughout history, Comerica has suppressed homers, and it has been well-known to do so. It’ll be interesting to see whether that changes in the next couple years with the asjustments to the fences last year, and I hope it does, because when it’s time for us to go after a difference-maker, I want great hitters to want to sign up and hit here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 22 minutes ago, chasfh said: On the whole, throughout history, Comerica has suppressed homers, and it has been well-known to do so. It’ll be interesting to see whether that changes in the next couple years with the asjustments to the fences last year, and I hope it does, because when it’s time for us to go after a difference-maker, I want great hitters to want to sign up and hit here. It has really only significantly suppressed home runs significantly in recent years. For years, it was close to neutral. I am not sure what happened. Maybe other parks changed dimensions for more offense or maybe the live ball carries better in other parks or something. I remember Harris said that he liked the unusual dimensions because he felt it potentially gave them an advantage with the right players. I am more interested in seeing what he can do with that than bringing in the fences more. It is something they have not really tried since they moved to Comerica. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 9 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: don't forget Meadows. If he can stick he's probably worth 0.15 on the team ERA by himself. Meadows also allows them to move Greene to a corner which gives them plus defense at two positions out there. If Meadows can make decent contact against MLB pitchers in the regular season, he'll be quite an asset. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) 3 hours ago, Tiger337 said: It has really only significantly suppressed home runs significantly in recent years. For years, it was close to neutral. I am not sure what happened. sometime this week I'm going see CoPA's park factors show any correlation to the Tigers offensive output. Haven't decided exactly what to pick, but just looking at the park factors over the years vs the team, my impression is I'm going to see a correlation. I know park factor is supposedly production neutral, but I don't think baseball as game is itself production neutral. It makes sense to me that a poor scoring team should depress the output of its opposition as well because they won't substitute or pinch hit for optimum production if they are always already ahead. Edited March 26 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaDreaming Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 It seems to me that this whole discussion points towards Harris' development of a top notch "pitching lab". The uniqueness of this park should attract good pitchers but not good hitters as much. So he is focusing on the pitching side...develop or fix good pitching, limit opponent's run scoring (especially home runs), and then try to manufacture enough runs to win low scoring games. Add in a good OF defense and it sounds like the right strategy for Comerica Park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveMaroth Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Interesting notes from Skubal here 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Another reason why it makes sense for the Tigers to focus on pitching in a pitching friendly park is that their management and staff appear to be able to get the most out of pitcing talent. This has not yet been demonstrated with their hitters, at least not at the MLB level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Another reason why it makes sense for the Tigers to focus on pitching in a pitching friendly park is that their management and staff appear to be able to get the most out of pitcing talent. This has not yet been demonstrated with their hitters, at least not at the MLB level. I think it has to be more difficult to develop the kind of analytics around hitting as have been accomplished for pitching because with hitting the biomechanics is only half - if even that - of the story. There are so many additional neurological issues - vision, reflex, concentration, decision, layered on top the biomechanics issues around swing, balance, bat speed, etc.. Makes it a more complex problem. You may make a physical change that should theoretically help a guy but maybe it doesn't help because he is blocked somewhere else. It's going to be harder to figure out what's going on. Or maybe another way to put it is you can put guys into better physical approaches, but it may or may not make them better hitters. Obviously if you do at least help the guys that can be helped it should still put your org ahead of an org that can't even do that. Marginal success rates matter even if net success rates never get as high as with pitchers. Edited March 26 by gehringer_2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyBlue Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 7 hours ago, CaliforniaDreaming said: It seems to me that this whole discussion points towards Harris' development of a top notch "pitching lab". The uniqueness of this park should attract good pitchers but not good hitters as much. So he is focusing on the pitching side...develop or fix good pitching, limit opponent's run scoring (especially home runs), and then try to manufacture enough runs to win low scoring games. Add in a good OF defense and it sounds like the right strategy for Comerica Park. Whole response typed and lost not sure what happened..... So... I think Harris and his development team is focusing on both pitching and hitting, however, the results have shown quicker on the pitching side for a couple of reasons. One, Hinch and Fetter, Fetter a big reason, have been focusing on this prior to Harris coming on board and further along. I believe it is quicker to see those results with pitching than hitting. Free swinging hitters are tougher to change, their habits are more entrenched imo and when those types make it to the big leagues they won't change. Harris, Avila to a lesser degree later in his Tiger timeline, has a type when it comes to hitters and the development model to improve them. Free swingers aren't his type which we have seen in his draft and more his free agency additions, ie Gio and Mark C as two examples. The results are coming to COPA, just taking a little bit longer, but Avila did give him some talent to work with in Keith, Greene, and couple of others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) 13 minutes ago, SkyBlue said: Whole response typed and lost not sure what happened..... If you post on the forum long enough it will happen to you. I've seen this enough that I believe the forum SW has a deep bug in it somewhere that on rare occasions will decide a certain character string is poison and refuse to process a post. You can spend a lot of time parsing through your post trying to find the exact byte string that is causing the rejection (impossibly tedious), or just rephrase your post and it will pass. Edited March 26 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 16 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I think it has to be more difficult to develop the kind of analytics around hitting as have been accomplished for pitching because with hitting the biomechanics is only half - if even that - of the story. There are so many additional neurological issues - vision, reflex, concentration, decision, layered on top the biomechanics issues around swing, balance, bat speed, etc.. Makes it a more complex problem. You may make a physical change that should theoretically help a guy but maybe it doesn't help because he is blocked somewhere else. It's going to be harder to figure out what's going on. Or maybe another way to put it is you can put guys into better physical approaches, but it may or may not make them better hitters. Obviously if you do at least help the guys that can be helped it should still put your org ahead of an org that can't even do that. Marginal success rates matter even if net success rates never get as high as with pitchers. It's easier to teach someone how to act that to react! The problem with pitchers is once you getting them working, they break! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 I would like honest player feedback, especially from someone like JD Martinez who played here then left, about whether the park size impacts them on the road vs at home. I believe it messes with their heads but I never claim to be an expert on such things so it's just me talking here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Nick Castellanos famously hated hitting in Comerica because he couldn't jack bombs as reliably there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 and I think that's a fair thing for him to say. I just wonder to what extreme they really have to adjust between home and road. Does it mentally screw with you when you get all of it just to see it land in a glove in no man's land... in your home park mind you. I mentioned JD because he's knwon to be meticilous and thoughtful in his approach. I don't want cliche answers but the kinds of things they say to each other when the media isn't around. Of course the Tiger players will say they love it the way it is right now when it's their own organization. What would Riley Greene say in 5 years if he's playing in Arizona? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 11 minutes ago, chasfh said: Nick Castellanos famously hated hitting in Comerica because he couldn't jack bombs as reliably there. He got a ****load of doubles. You can't flip your bat for a double though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: He got a ****load of doubles. You can't flip your bat for a double though. Max Clark will flip his bat if Max Clark wants to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 13 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: He got a ****load of doubles. You can't flip your bat for a double though. I deeply regret what I said earlier today. I consider myself a man of faith. And here's a line drive to the gap, two runs score, a double for Castellanos. 2-0 Reds. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Faedo made the team with a strong spring. From the Free Press; "Faedo, 28, shredded hitters in spring training. He logged a 1.35 ERA with two walks and 17 strikeouts across 13⅓ innings in seven games." But...yeah...stats don't matter. 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 52 minutes ago, oblong said: I would like honest player feedback, especially from someone like JD Martinez who played here then left, about whether the park size impacts them on the road vs at home. I believe it messes with their heads but I never claim to be an expert on such things so it's just me talking here. The park didn't seem to bother him; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 31 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: He got a ****load of doubles. You can't flip your bat for a double though. Home run hitters drive Cadillacs. Doubles hitters drive Fords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 4 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: The park didn't seem to bother him; All we need are nine of him and we’ll be all set! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: Faedo made the team with a strong spring. From the Free Press; "Faedo, 28, shredded hitters in spring training. He logged a 1.35 ERA with two walks and 17 strikeouts across 13⅓ innings in seven games." But...yeah...stats don't matter. 😆 What makes you think it was the stats, because that's all you see as a fan? Maybe it was his stuff, command, poise, etc. Maybe his ability fit the role they wanted to fill better than the competition. Stats may reflect that, sure, but they also may not. Edited March 26 by Longgone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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