buddha Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 1 hour ago, SeattleMike said: Not only did they never win a WS (which can be forgiven) they never won 100 games or were considered the best team in baseball in any particular year. Those were fun years, but, in retrospect, the results were a bit underwhelming. and yet, everyone seems to think jim leyland was a brilliant manager... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 15 minutes ago, buddha said: and yet, everyone seems to think jim leyland was a brilliant manager... He was viewed as brilliant in 2006, but not as much after that. I recall him being viewed as someone who was tough but knew and cared about his players much like Anderson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: He was viewed as brilliant in 2006, but not as much after that. I recall him being viewed as someone who was tough but knew and cared about his players much like Anderson. No manager is going to look brilliant for long when his GM gives him lousy bullpens to work with. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 22 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: No manager is going to look brilliant for long when his GM gives him lousy bullpens to work with. especially when he doesnt know how to use them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 27 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: He was viewed as brilliant in 2006, but not as much after that. I recall him being viewed as someone who was tough but knew and cared about his players much like Anderson. i get the impression sparky was viewed as ahead of his time vis a vis bullpen usage. leyland was great at controlling the clubhouse and keeping players happy. that's a really good skill. but in game? lineups? pitching management? not the best, imo. and those tigers teams underachieved other than 2006, that group overachieved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 in leyland's defense, cabrera's post season injuries were a major factor in 2012 and 2013. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 (edited) 7 minutes ago, buddha said: especially when he doesnt know how to use them... Leyland gave me the impression he had a sort of passive aggressive streak with the way he used BP pitchers - it was like he felt he had to keep signaling to DD "you can keep giving me these guys, but I'm not hiding them, they are going to get used even if we lose" Edited August 1 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 4 minutes ago, buddha said: i get the impression sparky was viewed as ahead of his time vis a vis bullpen usage. leyland was great at controlling the clubhouse and keeping players happy. that's a really good skill. but in game? lineups? pitching management? not the best, imo. and those tigers teams underachieved other than 2006, that group overachieved. yeah, Anderson was "Captain Hook", but his 85 and 86 teams underachieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 (edited) 10 minutes ago, buddha said: i get the impression sparky was viewed as ahead of his time vis a vis bullpen usage. Roger Craig could squeeze performance out of starters and BP arms. Once he left Sparky's pitching management was hum-drum. The worst was that Sparky would leave a guy sitting in the BP for days in a row then call him in at high leverage. Edited August 1 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papalawrence Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Regarding Leyland's run, while it is true they never won 100 or a WS, I believe the Tigers had the best overall W-L record from 2006-2014. I've been a fan since Campy threw his bat at Lagrow and endured several rebuilds. Imho that stretch from 2006-2014 was an elite stretch. Every season I felt they had a chance to win it all. Damn Big Papi! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 18 hours ago, buddha said: Let us all take a minute to rejoice that the white sox have lost SEVENTEEN straight games. Wow. That's like...really hard to do. It's almost impossible. Just one pitcher needs a good outing...just incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papalawrence Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 I see Baltimore optioned Kjerstad again. Limited sample, but his ops+ this year is 129, and he is 25. Would have liked to see him in Detroit.....oh well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Thnking about Sparky, I'll tell you what I think his biggest failing was, it was not using his credibility and stature to go to his owner than him that the management he had in place was doing a bush league job and needed to be replaced. It was funny because he took a stand against league management when the strike came, but he wouldn't do it for the sale of baseball in Detroit when he could have earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeytargets39 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Trout done for the year with a meniscus tear. Probably safe to say he’s not gonna get to the elite career hitting milestones at this point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdahoBert Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 14 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said: Trout done for the year with a meniscus tear. Probably safe to say he’s not gonna get to the elite career hitting milestones at this point In the last four years — and I’m not counting 2020 — Trout has played in 36, 119, 82, and 29 games. What a downer for Angels fans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 22 hours ago, Tiger337 said: yeah, Anderson was "Captain Hook", but his 85 and 86 teams underachieved. Both the hitting and pitching coaches departed after 1984. (Craig and Brown) I’ve never thought this received enough attention after 1984. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 3 hours ago, monkeytargets39 said: Trout done for the year with a meniscus tear. Probably safe to say he’s not gonna get to the elite career hitting milestones at this point Will he still be first ballot, or will this injury streak be held against him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeytargets39 Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 3 minutes ago, casimir said: Will he still be first ballot, or will this injury streak be held against him? He’s still first ballot. He was one of the best players in the league for several years. If anything it might depend on who else is eligible at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted August 2 Author Share Posted August 2 (edited) Man, what a sad decline for Trout. He needs to stop hanging out with Anthony Rendon. Edited August 2 by Motor City Sonics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 (edited) 8 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said: He’s still first ballot. He was one of the best players in the league for several years. If anything it might depend on who else is eligible at the time. Six times leading the league in OPS+ is going to get anyone a lot of votes, but they'll still be folks who think the counting stats are not enough (<2000 hits, <400 HR through the rabbit ball era) - but he's still got time to work on that if he can put together a couple more healthy years. Edited August 2 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeytargets39 Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 (edited) 7 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Six times leading the league in OPS+ is going to get anyone a lot of votes, but they'll still be folks who think the counting stats are not enough (<2000 hits, <400 HR through the rabbit ball era) - but he's still got time to work on that if he can put together a couple more healthy years. One more mediocre year out of him gets him 400 HRs, 1000 RBIs and 1000 walks and a shot at 1.000 career ops. I think that gets him in considering a good amount of his prime was lost to injuries. 11 all stars, 3 mvps, led the league at least once in runs, rbis, sbs, bbs, average, obp, ops, ops+, war…. There are plenty of folks that got in easily that didn’t have that resume. Edited August 2 by monkeytargets39 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 To me Trout is a no brainer first ballot HOF if he retires tomorrow. Was the best player in the world for almost a decade, has 3MVPs and another 2 runner ups. His career OPS+ of 173 is only topped by Ruth, Williams, Bonds, Gehrig and Hornsby. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 Trout is a first ballot Hall of Famer right now. The voters are more sophisticated than they were 20 years ago. They know he's one of the all-time greats. Kirby Pucket was a short career first ballot guy and he is not even close to Trout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 Trout is an easy 1st ballot guy. Since Bonds retired, he's the best player to walk out on an mlb field. Besides, if he stays healthy for a few years, he'll have a shot at 500 home runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 Crazy to think that Trout and Judge are both 32 years old. Trout will be 33 next week but still it feels like Judge is so much younger than him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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