gehringer_2 Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 7 minutes ago, tiger2022 said: Pedro Martinez was so much better than his peers for about 5 or 6 years Pedro has an argument if he could have sustained it. To compare - Sandy Koufax's dominance was only about the same duration. But walking away at the top of his game instead of hanging around being mediocre has left Koufax with the more lustrous legacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) 6 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Pedro has an argument if he could have sustained it. To compare - Sandy Koufax's dominance was only about the same duration. But walking away at the top of his game instead of hanging around being mediocre has left Koufax with the more lustrous legacy. You can say that about a lot of guys. Most people's memories of Cabrera are a big, out of shape, rotund guy struggling to hit the ball out of the infield with any sort of force and hoping he doesn't snap his tibia waddling to 1st base. I think the same thing is going to happen to Verlander. He is going to stick around trying to get 300 wins. He will be like Steve Carlton back in the day. Edited June 19 by tiger2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 hour ago, oblong said: So with Willie Mays passing away who is the great living player? You have the controversial take for people like Bonds and ARod. Mike Schmidt? Johnny Bench? Rickey Henderson? Rickey said Rickey was the greatest of all time, so let's go with what Rickey said about Rickey. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 19 minutes ago, casimir said: Rickey said Rickey was the greatest of all time, so let's go with what Rickey said about Rickey. To me Rickey and Hank Aaron were underrated... in that the focus on HR and Steals for them could have changed the perception. Outside of those two things they were still great great players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 41 minutes ago, oblong said: To me Rickey and Hank Aaron were underrated... in that the focus on HR and Steals for them could have changed the perception. Outside of those two things they were still great great players. I completely agree. Each are known for the one stat that they dominated and that's kind of a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) 3 hours ago, tiger2022 said: You can say that about a lot of guys. Most people's memories of Cabrera are a big, out of shape, rotund guy struggling to hit the ball out of the infield with any sort of force and hoping he doesn't snap his tibia waddling to 1st base. I think the same thing is going to happen to Verlander. He is going to stick around trying to get 300 wins. He will be like Steve Carlton back in the day. right - that's the beauty of walking away still on top, fans can extrapolate that you would have been the greatest ever. No-one will ever know if Sandy could have come back and gone on to be the greatest ever -we know it's unlikely, but the question teases for him in a way it doesn't for Pedro. Edited June 19 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 Pretty good distribution. His second inning number is impressive to me because how often did he bat in the 2nd inning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 5 hours ago, oblong said: Pretty good distribution. His second inning number is impressive to me because how often did he bat in the 2nd inning? Mays batted 5th quite a bit so it isn't as strange for him to get as many ABd in the 2nd inning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 22 hours ago, RandyMarsh said: Bonds for me for sure but if you want to throw him and other steroid guys out then I'd go with Pujols just cause of the value I put on your prime and hitting. You could also make a strong case for guys like Maddux and Randy Johnson if you wanted to go with pitchers. This is fair as far as it goes, although the problem with making determinations about disqualifying “steroid guys” is that we don’t definitively know who was and who was not on steroids. We only know what the media try to convince us about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 2 hours ago, tiger2022 said: Mays batted 5th quite a bit so it isn't as strange for him to get as many ABd in the 2nd inning. He had 501 plate appearances in the 5 spot. 8400 at #3 and 1840 at #4. The reason it stood out to me is his HR rate in the 2nd inning was a lot higher than his other positions. 1/29 in first, 1/11 in second, 1/17 in third and 1/20 in fourth innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 3 hours ago, oblong said: He had 501 plate appearances in the 5 spot. 8400 at #3 and 1840 at #4. The reason it stood out to me is his HR rate in the 2nd inning was a lot higher than his other positions. 1/29 in first, 1/11 in second, 1/17 in third and 1/20 in fourth innings. When I saw this post this morning, I was also wondering how many at bats in each inning he was getting, and I assumed that the ratio would be highest for 2nd inning, and it is. Split G PA AB HR HR/AB tOPS+ 1st inning 2416 2417 2089 123 5.89% 89 2nd inning 544 543 485 46 9.48% 118 3rd inning 1474 1474 1281 82 6.40% 111 4th inning 1357 1364 1213 67 5.52% 95 5th inning 1161 1160 1012 52 5.14% 97 6th inning 1445 1446 1256 73 5.81% 93 7th inning 1222 1220 1043 64 6.14% 104 8th inning 1423 1426 1246 90 7.22% 118 9th inning 938 939 826 37 4.48% 87 Ext inning 242 350 290 21 7.24% 111 The reason I thought this was, if Willie is coming up in the second inning as the 12th, 13th, or 14th batter of the game, then the other team/pitcher has already given up a bunch of baserunners by that time—at least five at minimum if he's 3rd in the order, at least seven if he's in the five-hole—which means pitchers are not pitching well, and thus he's more likely to tee off on them. He also has the best tOPS+ in the 2nd inning, too, also unsurprising to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) Source: the athletic Ball/strike challenges are coming It feels backward that technology allows those of us who have no bearing on the outcome of a baseball game to have a better view of the strike zone than the umpires tasked with calling balls and strikes. Or at least it seems that way. If you talk to umpires and others in the game, they’ll remind you: The box on the screen isn’t inerrant. For one thing, we see the three-dimensional plate in two dimensions. But do you know who should have some bearing on the outcome of a baseball game? The players. And as the ABS (automated ball/strike) technology has been tested out in the minor leagues, it appears we are circling a sustainable method of implementation. Jayson Stark has all the details here, but on Tuesday, MLB announced that Triple-A games would no longer use the fully automated strike zone, opting to go full-time with the challenge system. Players and coaches seem to prefer the hybrid, where a human is able to correctly call balls and strikes mostof the time, but players have the ability to challenge egregious misses. The good news: These won’t be lengthy “send it back to New York” reviews. Umpires will simply be informed of what the ABS system saw. Further, there won’t be infinite challenges. Pacific Coast League games will allow three per team, while International League games will allow two per, with successful challenges retained. Per Stark, we could see this in the big leagues as early as 2026. Edited June 21 by 1776 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 Reggie talks about racism 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) 43 minutes ago, 1776 said: Source: the athletic Ball/strike challenges are coming It feels backward that technology allows those of us who have no bearing on the outcome of a baseball game to have a better view of the strike zone than the umpires tasked with calling balls and strikes. Or at least it seems that way. If you talk to umpires and others in the game, they’ll remind you: The box on the screen isn’t inerrant. For one thing, we see the three-dimensional plate in two dimensions. But do you know who should have some bearing on the outcome of a baseball game? The players. And as the ABS (automated ball/strike) technology has been tested out in the minor leagues, it appears we are circling a sustainable method of implementation. Jayson Stark has all the details here, but on Tuesday, MLB announced that Triple-A games would no longer use the fully automated strike zone, opting to go full-time with the challenge system. Players and coaches seem to prefer the hybrid, where a human is able to correctly call balls and strikes mostof the time, but players have the ability to challenge egregious misses. The good news: These won’t be lengthy “send it back to New York” reviews. Umpires will simply be informed of what the ABS system saw. Further, there won’t be infinite challenges. Pacific Coast League games will allow three per team, while International League games will allow two per, with successful challenges retained. Per Stark, we could see this in the big leagues as early as 2026. I will not like any challenge system where challenges don't renew if they are upheld but I can see that a fixed number of total challenges was probably a bone thrown to the umpires union. Edited June 21 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 ****ing Royce Lewis, man, amirite? Now that's what a 1/1 is supposed to look like. Although—he did take six seasons to make his big league debut, so he did percolate for a while, didn't he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 23 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I will not like any challenge system where challenges don't renew if they are upheld but I can see that a fixed number of total challenges was probably a bone thrown to the umpires union. I’m still not understanding why the league(s) don’t go with the full ABS system versus the Challenge system. If a challenge is raised on a given pitch when the Challenge system is being used, aren’t they using the ABS system to determine the call anyway through a visual review? If so, why not commit to the ABS system? It was my initial impression that the Challenge system was a way of introducing an automated system to the game, generally speaking. In that it is being promoted over the ABS system, I’m a bit surprised. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 1 hour ago, RatkoVarda said: Reggie talks about racism That is absolutely awesome and I am so glad he didn’t mince words but spoke the unspoken. No pun intended but Reggie addressed the white elephant in the room with an explicit and honest appraisal of what life was really like for these guys. 🙏 Reggie Jackson! Now, was I the only one to notice Reggie adjusting his HONDA baseball hat for the camera’s sake prior to his comments? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) 14 minutes ago, 1776 said: I’m still not understanding why the league(s) don’t go with the full ABS system versus the Challenge system. If a challenge is raised on a given pitch when the Challenge system is being used, aren’t they using the ABS system to determine the call anyway through a visual review? If so, why not commit to the ABS system? It was my initial impression that the Challenge system was a way of introducing an automated system to the game, generally speaking. In that it is being promoted over the ABS system, I’m a bit surprised. I can see some reasons, some better some worse. First - the ump is fast for most calls, second - a good umpire is mildly entertaining to watch, third - the guy still has things to do behind the plate so human factors engineering says keep him engaged, forth - you have tradition, fifth - you have the need to keep umpires training to do balls and strikes because there is still going to be baseball played in a lot of places where ABS won't be available, 6th - the ump is a good fallback when the SW inevitably crashes. Edited June 21 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 9 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I can see some reasons, some better some worse. First - the ump is fast for most calls, second - a good umpire is mildly entertaining to watch, third - the guy still has things to do behind the plate so human factors engineering says keep him engaged, forth - you have tradition, fifth - you have the need to keep umpires training to do balls and strikes because there is still going to be baseball played in a lot of places where ABS won't be available, 6th - the ump is a good fallback when the SW inevitably crashes. Have you attended games where the ABS or Challenge systems were in use? Curious. To clarify, I am not proposing whatsoever that umpires be replaced. The ABS system makes their job on pitch calls much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 1 hour ago, chasfh said: ****ing Royce Lewis, man, amirite? Now that's what a 1/1 is supposed to look like. Although—he did take six seasons to make his big league debut, so he did percolate for a while, didn't he? he's probably gonna get injured before this season is over so you dont love that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 46 minutes ago, 1776 said: That is absolutely awesome and I am so glad he didn’t mince words but spoke the unspoken. No pun intended but Reggie addressed the white elephant in the room with an explicit and honest appraisal of what life was really like for these guys. 🙏 Reggie Jackson! Now, was I the only one to notice Reggie adjusting his HONDA baseball hat for the camera’s sake prior to his comments? I’m pretty sure the pun was 100% intended since you explicitly modified the original phrase “elephant in the room” in the service of the pun! 😉😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 1 hour ago, 1776 said: Have you attended games where the ABS or Challenge systems were in use? Curious. To clarify, I am not proposing whatsoever that umpires be replaced. The ABS system makes their job on pitch calls much easier. have seen the Mudhens play under challenge but not full ABS. Seemed to work well. I didn't even notice the 1st one - thought they had just made a mistake on the scoreboard, then you start watching for the signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) 2 hours ago, 1776 said: That is absolutely awesome and I am so glad he didn’t mince words but spoke the unspoken. No pun intended but Reggie addressed the white elephant in the room with an explicit and honest appraisal of what life was really like for these guys. 🙏 Reggie Jackson! Now, was I the only one to notice Reggie adjusting his HONDA baseball hat for the camera’s sake prior to his comments? Just thinking back to that era. We had just moved from lily white Westmoreland County, Pa about two years before. I started high school (8th grade in 1966) the first year they integrated the rural SW Va county we lived in. It was a true educational experience for 13 year old me. Fortunately not much drama between the races, however. We were lucky considering what happened in other areas. The descendants of George Wallace’s voters have become Trumpets Edited June 21 by CMRivdogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordstanley Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 Those legs are amazing. Hers aren’t bad either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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