Hongbit Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 26 minutes ago, 1776 said: I started to mention this myself but that would create another controversy. It seems like for every problem MLB seeks to resolve they create two more. I do agree with your comment. The biggest controversy is going to be when they have their Tim Donaghy ump in business with gamblers moment. They’ve made it so easy to get away with it. It only takes one guy to see it as just a job and doesn’t care about the precious sanctity of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 1 hour ago, Hongbit said: Outlawing pitch framing by the catcher would have the biggest impact. Doing nothing and pretending it’s not a problem is going to bite MLB in the ass. How would that rule be written and implemented? As a catcher sometimes you do have to move the glove if you want to catch it in the webbing instead or the heel. If the ump is expected to know a frame then they wouldn’t have called the pitch a strike to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 1 hour ago, Hongbit said: Outlawing pitch framing by the catcher would have the biggest impact. Doing nothing and pretending it’s not a problem is going to bite MLB in the ass. It’s not being outlawed, I don’t believe. Pitch framing’s impact would be eliminated with robo-strike zone. You can fool Angel Hernandez (fairly easily it seems), but not this guy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 Why would the umpire be paying attention to framing anyway? He's supposed to make a call on whether or not the baseball passed through the strike zone over the plate, not where the catcher caught it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 8 minutes ago, casimir said: Why would the umpire be paying attention to framing anyway? He's supposed to make a call on whether or not the baseball passed through the strike zone over the plate, not where the catcher caught it. He's not, but framing is technically a tactic of deception, and some people can be deceived despite their best efforts to avoid it. Also, people frequently make judgments based on factors beyond merely the evidence in front of them, some of those factors are personal, and sadly, that include calling balls and strikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 Today’s catcher has gotten insanely good at framing. It’s a split second movement to take the ball from out of the zone back in. Umps are easily fooled. MLB could figure out ways to implement and punish. It shouldn’t be hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 8 minutes ago, Hongbit said: Today’s catcher has gotten insanely good at framing. It’s a split second movement to take the ball from out of the zone back in. Umps are easily fooled. MLB could figure out ways to implement and punish. It shouldn’t be hard. Some of it look just so ridiculously obvious that I'm surprised some umpires don't punish the catcher by calling a ball just for trying to make him look stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 To me it’s gamesmanship. I don’t see the logic in making it illegal to not try to get a call. The umpire is responsible to get it right. Not the catcher. If the pitch was a strike and they “frame” it and it’s called a strike do you then call it a ball? Don’t punish the beneficiary of a blown call. Do we expect a runner to say “no I was out” when the ump makes a bad call on the bases? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theroundsquare Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 I agree that it is gamesmanship and therefore part of the game. It's right in the word. But I also want the calls right and therefore I am ready for our robot overlords when they are ready for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 (edited) 20 minutes ago, oblong said: To me it’s gamesmanship. I don’t see the logic in making it illegal to not try to get a call. The umpire is responsible to get it right. Not the catcher. If the pitch was a strike and they “frame” it and it’s called a strike do you then call it a ball? Don’t punish the beneficiary of a blown call. Do we expect a runner to say “no I was out” when the ump makes a bad call on the bases? If the ump can’t get it right because the game has gotten too fast, they need to make it easier on him. They did this with instant replay. There has never more emphasis on spin rate and ball movement from pitchers. This game has gotten much harder to call balls and strikes. I look at it as just another step in the evolution of the game as the athletes get bigger, stronger, and better. The umps certainly are not. They need some help. Roboump is coming but that’s huge and will take time to get right. This is a small easy fix. Edited July 15 by Hongbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 1 hour ago, chasfh said: Some of it look just so ridiculously obvious that I'm surprised some umpires don't punish the catcher by calling a ball just for trying to make him look stupid. THIS! the reason is took a hundred years of baseball before catchers ever tried framing pitchers is exactly because umps did used to punish catchers that didn't stay put for a better view. It was a change in the attitude of umpire that created this in the first place in if they wanted to they could put a stop to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 What about situations where a frame helps the ump make the correct call? I’m not against robo umps or even instant replay on pitches. But trying to outlaw pitch framing crosses a line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 16 minutes ago, Hongbit said: If the ump can’t get it right because the game has gotten too fast, they need to make it easier on him. They did this with instant replay. There has never more emphasis on spin rate and ball movement from pitchers. This game has gotten much harder to call balls and strikes. I look at it as just another step in the evolution of the game as the athletes get bigger, stronger, and better. The umps certainly are not. They need some help. Roboump is coming but that’s huge and will take time to get right. This is a small easy fix. I'm not sure it's as easy as all that. Do umpires even see the framing in the moment? Are they positive they can tell the difference between a catcher "illegally" framing versus just the catcher trying to get a better grip on a tricky moving pitch? Could the umpire potentially call an illegal framing on a pitch the catcher doesn't actually move, or moves within the allowable distance from the catch, whatever that might be? How can they be sure the catcher illegally framed a pitch unless technology helps confirm that—ironically, the same technology some pundits are assuming will do away with framing altogether? Seems like there may be a lot of worms in the can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 1 hour ago, oblong said: What about situations where a frame helps the ump make the correct call? . I am not sure that I understand. When does this happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 55 minutes ago, Hongbit said: I am not sure that I understand. When does this happen? Say there’s a borderline pitch on the outside that the C pulls back. That’s framing the pitch. without the frame maybe the ump calls it a ball but we later learn it’s actually a strike. Pitch framing isn’t just turning balls into strikes but making sure strikes get called as strikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 (edited) If you actually care about accurate calls, the best thing a catcher can do is get into the path of the throw, catch it and don't move. That is all. Edited July 15 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdahoBert Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 Is there a different version of the puppy bowl going on during the home run derby tonight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 20 minutes ago, IdahoBert said: Is there a different version of the puppy bowl going on during the home run derby tonight? I can’t say I’m a fan of home run derby either. But if someone else enjoys it, what do I care? I think I’ll bide my time by alphabetizing my sock drawer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasTiger Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Anybody hear that National Anthem? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdahoBert Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 40 minutes ago, casimir said: I can’t say I’m a fan of home run derby either. But if someone else enjoys it, what do I care? I think I’ll bide my time by alphabetizing my sock drawer. If people like it, fine. When it’s ordinary batting practice, it’s more authentic than a derby. The first game I saw when I was 12 was at Comiskey Park and watching Mantle and Maris during batting practice, now that was exciting. Wish it had been at Tiger Stadium, but when my dad’s Elks Club took us boys to a doubleheader they took us to Chicago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Derby is so much better without the most annoying schtick in sport and the never ending “back back back” call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Is BInge still the only 0fer in history? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 10 minutes ago, IdahoBert said: If people like it, fine. When it’s ordinary batting practice, it’s more authentic than a derby. The first game I saw when I was 12 was at Comiskey Park and watching Mantle and Maris during batting practice, now that was exciting. Wish it had been at Tiger Stadium, but when my dad’s Elks Club took us boys to a doubleheader they took us to Chicago. I can remember sitting in the LF grandstand and Jim Rice clubbing one out to our area. It landed a row or two behind us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 The have managed to take all the excitement away from the home run derby. It is slooow and boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 12 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said: The have managed to take all the excitement away from the home run derby. It is slooow and boring. I didn't see it, but I'm going to guess that they spend a lot more time these days on interviews with players and all the preparatory and otherwise time-wasting nonsense in between contestants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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