RatkoVarda Posted October 4 Share Posted October 4 3 hours ago, 1776 said: There is much joy in Mudville I’m sure. The Reds are hiring Terry Francona as their next manager. didn't they make a big deal about his health preventing him from continuing in the Land of Cleve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted October 4 Share Posted October 4 (edited) 2 hours ago, Shades of Deivi Cruz said: Fascinating. This isn't some young, inexperienced closer. He's one of the best in the game. ARod had a video a few years on his YT channel talking about how there were a ton of guys throughout his career where he knew when their change up was coming for this very same reason. Edited October 4 by RandyMarsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordstanley Posted October 4 Share Posted October 4 49 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: ARod had a video a few years on his YT channel talking about how there were a ton of guys throughout his career where he knew when their change up was coming for this very same reason. Brilliant and funny clip here of Agassi explaining a tell of Boris Becker and how Agassi decided when to use the knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordstanley Posted October 4 Share Posted October 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted October 4 Share Posted October 4 1 hour ago, RatkoVarda said: didn't they make a big deal about his health preventing him from continuing in the Land of Cleve? Yes. This from theathletic; “During his year away from baseball, Francona has lost about 25 pounds and is in good health. He underwent a shoulder replacement and had two hernias repaired.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Wylde Posted October 4 Share Posted October 4 (edited) So I know the concept of using "openers" instead of "starters" has been around for at least 5-6 years. I don't know that's ever been done with as much success as we are seeing from the tigers. Hypothetically, if the Tigers catch lightning in a bottle and actually win the WS, or at least make it to the WS, do you think there could be a major trend of more teams adopting this system? Like to the point where ace starting pitchers are completely obsolete and obscure? As I said, openers aren't a new concept, it's just that Hinch is the one who has figured out how to do it 'properly.' Can other managers follow his lead? Is this just all a fluke, or is this something that is repeatable? I grew up with stars like Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, etc. Is a world where Starting Pitchers are no longer a thing really something that could happen? Edited October 4 by Zakk_Wylde Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeytargets39 Posted October 4 Share Posted October 4 27 minutes ago, Zakk_Wylde said: So I know the concept of using "openers" instead of "starters" has been around for at least 5-6 years. I don't know that's ever been done with as much success as we are seeing from the tigers. Hypothetically, if the Tigers catch lightning in a bottle and actually win the WS, or at least make it to the WS, do you think there could be a major trend of more teams adopting this system? Like to the point where ace starting pitchers are completely obsolete and obscure? As I said, openers aren't a new concept, it's just that Hinch is the one who has figured out how to do it 'properly.' Can other managers follow his lead? Is this just all a fluke, or is this something that is repeatable? I grew up with stars like Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, etc. Is a world where Starting Pitchers are no longer a thing really something that could happen? I honestly could see it becoming more popular due to how it could help preserve arms/allow guys to pitch at max velocity moreso than just because the Tigers have had success with it. AJ almost had to do something like this just because we had so many SP injuries in the org and didn’t really have guys who were built up to come to Detroit and give us starter innings. If you could have a dominant guy like Skubal/Sale/Skenes/etc you’d still probably want them to go give you 7 every game and set you up for a win most of the time—-but if you have guys who are more mid-level, pitching them a couple innings every few games lets you pick the lineup situations they are facing and help put them in better opportunities for success. I think other teams will start to adopt this but more on a case by case basis with the SPs on their staffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted October 4 Share Posted October 4 The pitching strategy only works if your bullpen pitchers are effective. The tigers have been quite fortunate that their guys have pitched so well. If the bullpen guys suck, the strategy won't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted October 4 Share Posted October 4 I would not be surprised if the league tries to clamp down on it to be honest. Something that depresses offense is bad to the overlords. I don’t know how the logic would work but if the Tigers opponents complain enough about it not being fair to the hitters to not see the same pitcher twice then there could be movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 4 Share Posted October 4 50 minutes ago, tiger2022 said: The pitching strategy only works if your bullpen pitchers are effective. The tigers have been quite fortunate that their guys have pitched so well. If the bullpen guys suck, the strategy won't work. It works for the Tigers because the guys they have in the pen are better than their available starters, but for most teams that would be a transient situation. On a 'normal' team, Holton would have been stretched out and moved to the rotation by now, and maybe Brieske as well, in which case most (though not all) of the motivation to do it goes away. For whatever reasons, Hinch has decided not to go that way - probably because you do get some platoon advantage if you match an opener and long man of opposite hand (Holton/Hanifee; Brieske/Hurter). The Tigers happen the have the pieces for that to work. The downside you have to deal with is that human performance being what it is, every additional pitcher you decide to rely on increases the odds one of them will be having a bad day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papalawrence Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 At this point Giancarlo Stanton is slower than Rusty Staub was (RIP) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 On 10/4/2024 at 6:02 PM, tiger2022 said: The pitching strategy only works if your bullpen pitchers are effective. The tigers have been quite fortunate that their guys have pitched so well. If the bullpen guys suck, the strategy won't work. Also only works if your manager and pitching coach are effective in putting the right pitcher in the right situation and preparing him for that situation. And it takes special circumstances and a great deal of alignment between them and the front office. Probably won’t be repeated to any significant degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordstanley Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 Is every single Mets game wild? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 Nick with a 2 out, 2 strike, walk off single to win the game for Philly. Very exciting. Terrible pitching... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy incognito Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 Phils win it on a drive to deep left field by Castellanos. How can you not consider yourself a man of faith, I mean be romantic about baseball? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben9753 Posted October 7 Share Posted October 7 Jack Flaherty getting lit up by SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted October 7 Share Posted October 7 On 10/4/2024 at 5:31 PM, Zakk_Wylde said: So I know the concept of using "openers" instead of "starters" has been around for at least 5-6 years. I don't know that's ever been done with as much success as we are seeing from the tigers. Hypothetically, if the Tigers catch lightning in a bottle and actually win the WS, or at least make it to the WS, do you think there could be a major trend of more teams adopting this system? Like to the point where ace starting pitchers are completely obsolete and obscure? As I said, openers aren't a new concept, it's just that Hinch is the one who has figured out how to do it 'properly.' Can other managers follow his lead? Is this just all a fluke, or is this something that is repeatable? I grew up with stars like Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, etc. Is a world where Starting Pitchers are no longer a thing really something that could happen? Yes, it's been done but not nearly as often as the Tigers did it. When you only have 2 starting pitchers, you don't have much choice. Hinch may not have invented using BP games but he also didn't have much choice. But most baseball people agree that it won't work for a 162 game season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted October 7 Share Posted October 7 For me… The best outcome in the playoffs is that the Tigers win the World Series. The runner up consolation if that doesn’t happen is that the Dodgers DON’T win the World Series. A huge bonus to that consolation would be that the Dodgers don’t even make it to the World Series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted October 7 Share Posted October 7 9 hours ago, ben9753 said: Jack Flaherty getting lit up by SD Jack misses Fett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 7 Share Posted October 7 On 10/5/2024 at 10:42 PM, papalawrence said: At this point Giancarlo Stanton is slower than Rusty Staub was (RIP) Only Sean Casey in his latter years was as slow as Rusty Staub is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades of Deivi Cruz Posted October 7 Share Posted October 7 11 hours ago, ben9753 said: Jack Flaherty getting lit up by SD Boy did that game get chippy, not only between the teams but also with the fans. There was a 15 minute delay between innings because of issues with the outfield fans and the Padres players. And Flaherty and Machado were having A LOT of "conversation". After Flaherty struck him out, you could clearly see him say "Get back in the dugout MFer!". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted October 7 Share Posted October 7 (edited) 10 hours ago, romad1 said: Only Sean Casey in his latter years was as slow as Rusty Staub is now. You must not have watched Victor Martinez or Miguel Cabrera at the end of their career. Edited October 7 by tiger2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 7 Share Posted October 7 1 minute ago, tiger2022 said: You must not have watched Victor Martinez or Miguel Cabrera at the end of their career. Victor was really slow but Sean Casey was thrown out at 1b on a ball hit to LF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papalawrence Posted October 7 Share Posted October 7 They're all slow. People used to make fun of Rusty back in the day. Heckuva player. Just really slow. Right now Stanton is slower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordstanley Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 (edited) Royals might be able to tie their series too, as it is 4-1 KC in the top of the 8th. I can never watch a Royals-Yankees game without thinking of this clip of peak 1970s chaos. Edited October 8 by lordstanley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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