2024 DETROIT TIGERS REGULAR SEASON THREAD

[chasfh]

23 minutes ago, gkelly said:

I never said it was a controversial pick.  All I said is that picking a 1st baseman #1 overall seemed kind of silly to ME since it is probably the easiest position to find a quality hitter at.

You never said it was a controversial pick. The 2020 draft was a special case since a first baseman was the consensus #1 pick who would have been selected by every team who didn't have someone already blocking him.

 

Edited May 18 by chasfh

[SoCalTiger]

19 hours ago, casimir said:

Or he gets it together and starts performing.

Yes. Which is why you have to play him through 2025. The upside potential is worth waiting for. Even as a DH. 

[SoCalTiger]

14 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I was joking.      I'll take anyone.    Is Tanner Boyle busy? 

Can he drive in 5 runs in one game like Baez. 😊

[Hongbit]

Hard to believe the Tigers are playing .500 ball and that’s only good for 5.5 out and 4th place in the supposed worst division in all of baseball.  

I would’ve called you crazy if you told me this back in spring training.  

[Tiger337]

15 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

until he faces a RHP?

Seriously though, the difference was that almost to the end Miguel could still hit whenever the knee settled down so there was always that tease/hope that if somebody found something that helped him drive off the left leg again, he'd be able to be more productive. So he would have those stretches where you saw him pick up the front foot again and you knew he was going to hit - for a while - and it got to where it might only be game or two and you'd see him go back to trying to hit flat footed. The overall result may have looked the same in BR as a bad player that had an occasional hot streak, but the feel of it was a lot different for me seeing that the talent was still there but for a  piece of bum orthopedia. It's does happen to a lot of players and I always think itis a sad thing.

I think injuries are the most common reason why players - even young players - have slumps.  I also think staying healthy is one of the most important skills a player can have.  If one player has a slump because he is out of it mentally (also a skill) or because of random variation instead of an injury, it's still the same result.  Lets say Cabrera's slumps were due to injuries as you say (and you are probably right).  That doesn't make him any better than another hitter who slumps for other reasons.  It's still a bad overall performance.  The sum of his skills at the end of his career were not helping the team.  

As for Ibanez facing a RHP, Cabrera was hurt as often as Ibanez faced a RHP the last few years!

 

Edited May 18 by Tiger337

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

  That doesn't make him any better than another hitter who slumps for other reasons.

right, that's what I meant - it's all the same in BR. I guess what was different was to compare Cabrera to Kaline. Al talked about everything running down to where he just couldn't push himself through another spring training - so it was kind a natural - 'now you are too old' which every player will face. But Cabrera had one particular part fail when all the other stuff could have still been working, and yes that does happen to a lot of guys, but it's still a much sadder/tragic (to me) case than a guy who is 35+ and can't see the fastball any more anyway. So just the perception of it.

Edited May 18 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

right, that's what I meant - it's all the same in BR. I guess what was different was to compare Cabrera to Kaline. Al talked about everything running down to where he just couldn't push himself through another spring training - so it was kind a natural - 'now you are too old' which every player will face. But Cabrera had one particular part fail when all the other stuff could have still been working, and yes that does happen to a lot of guys, but it's still a much sadder/tragic (to me) case than a guy who is 35 and can't see the fastball any more anyway.

It also might have been somewhat self induced by not staying in better condition

[gehringer_2]

Just now, Tiger337 said:

It also might have been somewhat self induced by not staying in better condition

that is almost certainly true - weight is the #1 indicator for knee damage. It's funny how he persuaded himself he had to stay heavy to hit for power when his power was fine when he was a younger thinner player. I don't remember what year it was he did lose some weight - then he didn't hit real well coming out of ST and said he had to put it back on for leverage!

[Sports_Freak]

On 5/17/2024 at 7:34 PM, gehringer_2 said:

The only thing with Miguel is that he could still flash a little brilliance now and then. Just to remind you. But it got to be so seldom. Even as late as '22 he could tease a month hitting 320 and being productive, but he couldn't sustain it and soon enough he'd be back to futile.

I said at the time that he reminded me of old Babe Ruth videos in Babe's last couple of years. A pretty sad sight and a shell of his former self.

[chasfh]

20 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

Yes. Which is why you have to play him through 2025. The upside potential is worth waiting for. Even as a DH. 

I think Tork or anyone would become the Tigers permanent DH only when we basically fill every other position with average or better major leaguers, like the Dodgers and Braves and Phillies and Yankees have. And even then I’m not sure we’re going to want to pay him Boras money to stick around and do that.

Although I have wondered whether getting Tork off the field altogether would be the magic bullet to finally turn him into the elite hitter everyone has thought he’s always had the potential to become.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I think Tork or anyone would become the Tigers permanent DH only when we basically fill every other position with average or better major leaguers, like the Dodgers and Braves and Phillies and Yankees have. And even then I’m not sure we’re going to want to pay him Boras money to stick around and do that.

Although I have wondered whether getting Tork off the field altogether would be the magic bullet to finally turn him into the elite hitter everyone has thought he’s always had the potential to become.

Why not move him back to 3B?

[oblong]

[Dan Gilmore]

Sponsored by Marlboro.

[chasfh]

Fire Hinch and Harris! And while you're at it taking Fetter with you! 😝

 

[casimir]

21 hours ago, Dan Gilmore said:

Sponsored by Marlboro.

He missed the boat on all of the tobacco advertising in baseball.

[Tiger337]

3 minutes ago, casimir said:

He missed the boat on all of the tobacco advertising in baseball.

I know this is a joke, but I don't think that Leyland would have wanted anything to do with tobacco advertising.  It's a choice he made for himself, but I think he is an honorable person who would not have wanted to promote tobacco to young people.  

[casimir]

Just now, Tiger337 said:

I know this is a joke, but I don't think that Leyland would have wanted anything to do with tobacco advertising.  It's a choice he made for himself, but I think he is an honorable person who would not have wanted to promote tobacco to young people.  

Quite possibly.  It was a different mindset back then.  Its more of a shunned habit nowadays than it was in the 40s, 50s, 60s.

[oblong]

27 minutes ago, casimir said:

Quite possibly.  It was a different mindset back then.  Its more of a shunned habit nowadays than it was in the 40s, 50s, 60s.

In MI in particular I am wondering when someone says "they smoke" has it transitioned to where the inference is weed vs tobacco?

[1776]

Cody with a really good piece on the ‘84 Tigers posted today. A couple of highlighted/embedded stories within this piece deserve their due so read that as well. 
 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5512564/2024/05/23/1984-tigers-legacy-anniversary/

Edited May 23 by 1776

[chasfh]

55 minutes ago, 1776 said:

Cody with a really good piece on the ‘84 Tigers posted today. A couple of highlighted/embedded stories within this piece deserve their due so read that as well. 
 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5512564/2024/05/23/1984-tigers-legacy-anniversary/

Twenty-nine-year-old Willie Hernandez still looks like he was in his 40s in 1984.

[oblong]

 

[Toddwert]

Just now, oblong said:

 

good for him I can see another team try to swipe him 

[chasfh]

The days of Jay Sartori might be numbered. 

 

[1776]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5516189/2024/05/23/automated-strike-zone-consequences-manfred/
 

NEW YORK — For at least a couple of years, MLB commissioner Rob Manfred has made clear that if a form of the automated strike zone comes to the majors, he would prefer it to be a challenge system — used a handful of times a game — rather than a system that’s employed on every pitch. On Thursday, he said others seem to be coming around to that view, but a lot still remains up in the air regarding the actual implementation of the automatic ball-strike system, or ABS for short, in the majors.

One issue is what shape of a strike zone the system would be programmed to recognize. Manfred has said in the past that the strike zone as called by umpires looks more round than one might expect.

“The shape of the strike zone, we have not started those conversations (with players), because we haven’t settled on what we think about it,” Manfred said. “Hard to have those conversations before you know what you’re thinking.”

Overall, Manfred said the league has gathered a lot of information from players, though.

“The two biggest learnings: you know, originally, we thought everybody was going to be wholeheartedly in favor of the idea, ‘If you can get it right every single time, that’s a great idea,’” he said. “One thing we’ve learned in these meetings is that players feel there could be other effects on the game that would be negative if you used it full-blown.

“The second one is those who have played with it do have a strong preference for the challenge system over ABS calling every pitch and that has certainly altered our thinking on where we might be headed.”

Catchers might be the most affected.

“It’s the unintended consequences of ABS,” Manfred said. “The one that is often pointed to, but not the only one, is the framing catcher. I think that the players feel that a catcher that frames is, if you’ll let me use the word, ‘art,’ of the game.

“And that if, in fact, framing is no longer important, the kind of players that would occupy that position might be different than they are today. And you could hypothesize a world where instead of a framing catcher, who’s focused on defense, the catching position becomes a more offensive player. I mean, that alters peoples’ careers. Those are real, legitimate concerns that we need to think all the way through before we jump off that bridge.”

 

[gehringer_2]

18 minutes ago, 1776 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5516189/2024/05/23/automated-strike-zone-consequences-manfred/
 

NEW YORK — For at least a couple of years, MLB commissioner Rob Manfred has made clear that if a form of the automated strike zone comes to the majors, he would prefer it to be a challenge system — used a handful of times a game — rather than a system that’s employed on every pitch. On Thursday, he said others seem to be coming around to that view, but a lot still remains up in the air regarding the actual implementation of the automatic ball-strike system, or ABS for short, in the majors.

One issue is what shape of a strike zone the system would be programmed to recognize. Manfred has said in the past that the strike zone as called by umpires looks more round than one might expect.

“The shape of the strike zone, we have not started those conversations (with players), because we haven’t settled on what we think about it,” Manfred said. “Hard to have those conversations before you know what you’re thinking.”

Overall, Manfred said the league has gathered a lot of information from players, though.

“The two biggest learnings: you know, originally, we thought everybody was going to be wholeheartedly in favor of the idea, ‘If you can get it right every single time, that’s a great idea,’” he said. “One thing we’ve learned in these meetings is that players feel there could be other effects on the game that would be negative if you used it full-blown.

“The second one is those who have played with it do have a strong preference for the challenge system over ABS calling every pitch and that has certainly altered our thinking on where we might be headed.”

Catchers might be the most affected.

“It’s the unintended consequences of ABS,” Manfred said. “The one that is often pointed to, but not the only one, is the framing catcher. I think that the players feel that a catcher that frames is, if you’ll let me use the word, ‘art,’ of the game.

“And that if, in fact, framing is no longer important, the kind of players that would occupy that position might be different than they are today. And you could hypothesize a world where instead of a framing catcher, who’s focused on defense, the catching position becomes a more offensive player. I mean, that alters peoples’ careers. Those are real, legitimate concerns that we need to think all the way through before we jump off that bridge.”

 

Catchers that can hit would certainly be a disaster for baseball.