2024 DETROIT TIGERS REGULAR SEASON THREAD

[chasfh]

13 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Catchers that can hit would certainly be a disaster for baseball.

 

That’s not the only thing.

What’s Manfred talking about when says that the “shape of the strike zone” being round is being discussed? As in, that’s what they might implement with an ABS system? A rounded strike zone? If they’re going to do that, that means either portions above the plate would have to be called a ball, or portions above areas beyond the plate would have to be called a strike—or both at the same time. Exactly how is that going to work? 

See, this is what you get when you let lawyers shape the game on the field.

[1776]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

See, this is what you get when you let lawyers shape the game on the field.

As I’ve mentioned here before, we’ve seen quite a few games using the two systems (ABS/Challenge). Manfred says the consensus is gravitating toward the Challenge system. That’s fine, my impression is that both systems are working well. Frankly, I’m surprised there is any real hesitation about moving forward on one of the systems. The further this debate goes on the more I begin to suspect that there is more to this than just getting the calls right. It’s really not complicated unless you want it to be.  
 

Edited May 24 by 1776

[Edman85]

The challenge system is great.

[1776]

2 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

The challenge system is great.

It is. It gives the fans in the park a literal visual of the previous pitch against the frame of the strike zone box. Seeing is believing. I believe continuing to provide visuals, as they do now in the challenged calls, will be a plus for everyone involved. 
 

[chasfh]

42 minutes ago, 1776 said:

As I’ve mentioned here before, we’ve seen quite a few games using the two systems (ABS/Challenge). Manfred says the consensus is gravitating toward the Challenge system. That’s fine, my impression is that both systems are working well. Frankly, I’m surprised there is any real hesitation about moving forward on one of the systems. The further this debate goes on the more I begin to suspect that there is more to this than just getting the calls right. It’s really not complicated unless you want to be.  
 

People hate change. Change threatens people because they're not always sure it won't roll over on them and make things for them much worse. I will forego mentioning the political corollary to that here.

I can't see where a rounded strike zone makes things better.

 

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

That’s not the only thing.

What’s Manfred talking about when says that the “shape of the strike zone” being round is being discussed? As in, that’s what they might implement with an ABS system? A rounded strike zone? If they’re going to do that, that means either portions above the plate would have to be called a ball, or portions above areas beyond the plate would have to be called a strike—or both at the same time. Exactly how is that going to work? 

See, this is what you get when you let lawyers shape the game on the field.

the whole framing thing is dumb anyway - it didn't exist at all for the 1st ..oh..100 years of baseball and the game did fine without it. If you could talk to an Ump from before about 1990 he'd probably tell you he would never give a strike to a catcher that didn't *stay still*. The umps let the whole framing  thing get out of hand for no good reason - it adds nothing to the game play. A contest between the catcher and the umpire is nowhere given as an objective in the game of baseball and serves zero purpose therein. Getting rid of framing is one of my primary reasons to want ABS.

Edited May 24 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, Edman85 said:

The challenge system is great.

It will be good if it is done quickly as it is in the minors.  If it is anyhing like the replay reviews, then I would hate it.    

[Tigermojo]

I don't get it. If there is a challenge, they use the ABS system to verify the call. Why not just use ABS and get every pitch right?

[Motor City Sonics]

Anyone have video of Alex Lange's meltdown?   I haven't been watching this week  (I won't watch them if all they're going to do is piss me off).   

 

[LongLiveMaroth]

21 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Anyone have video of Alex Lange's meltdown?   I haven't been watching this week  (I won't watch them if all they're going to do is piss me off).   

 

Not of Lange's meltdown but here is Hinch's reaction and the Royals announcers talking about it.

[Motor City Sonics]

I heard AJ's response to Jeff Rigor's question about his team not competing. 

AJ got a bit pissy with it and try to come up with this convoluted reasoning on what "competing" is. 

It's pretty simple.  Were you really even in any of the games after the first 3 innings?   Pretty much  No.  Don't get angry at Rigor.  As much as he can stir things up a little bit - he's actually not afraid to ask questions the fans might want to ask.   He's the opposite of Craig Monroe's kissing up.   

Team hasn't been competitive.   The Arizona games were an anomaly.   This team has been hot garbage for pretty much a month and many of the players seem to be regressing........steeply.    What's going on, Skip?   

When does the great AJ Hinch start taking more responsibility for all this floundering?    It ain't just the roster.   Supposed to coach them up.  We should be seeing some gradual improvement.   I'm not seeing that at all.   

Edited May 24 by Motor City Sonics

[Motor City Sonics]

6 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said:

Not of Lange's meltdown but here is Hinch's reaction and the Royals announcers talking about it.

Where's Jomboy's lip reading expertise? 

[gkelly]

I don't understand why sports have a challenge system.  How about they just have an extra official watching the game and if a call looks suspicious they just buzz the ump/ref and have them pause the game while the ref in the box take a look at it.  It should only take 20 seconds to decide if a call should be reversed.

Is the league more concerned with just getting the calls right or to have a stupid system like the NFL does?  There are obvious wrong calls but if you already used a challenge and lost, you are just screwed.

[bobrob2004]

The Tigers are now 1 game worse then they were at this point last year.  Through 50 games: 

2023: 24-26

2024: 23-27

[chasfh]

3 hours ago, Tigermojo said:

I don't get it. If there is a challenge, they use the ABS system to verify the call. Why not just use ABS and get every pitch right?

I believe it’s because there are unionized people in the game who are against that and that counts for something, so much as we’d like to see this, Baseball can’t simply impose their will on them as it relates to this issue. 

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, gkelly said:

I don't understand why sports have a challenge system.  How about they just have an extra official watching the game and if a call looks suspicious they just buzz the ump/ref and have them pause the game while the ref in the box take a look at it.  It should only take 20 seconds to decide if a call should be reversed.

Is the league more concerned with just getting the calls right or to have a stupid system like the NFL does?  There are obvious wrong calls but if you already used a challenge and lost, you are just screwed.

There are already certain rules that require appeal, meaning the umpire would call it a certain way but the rules don’t allow him to do so unless it’s brought to his attention. I think this is one of those cases. 

[1984Echoes]

Since this is a transition year... to sift through some kids trying to see what sticks...

I want to demote (all have an option or two so we don't lose these guys):

Torkelson. Rogers. And Vierling (not as a punishment to Vierling... he just got caught in a numbers game and I'm not sending down Perez... Plus Ibanez can play both 2B and 3B so with Canha/ Carpenter/ Greene/ Perez/ and...):

And call up:

Meadows - give him another chance to stick in CF. But he needs to hit in Detroit... not just Toledo. That would be a full OF with 5 guys.

Vilade - and stick him at 1B. 25 and I'm interested in seeing what he's got. I don't wanna say he could Wally Pipp Torkelson... But I would say that I don't want to see Tork in Detroit again until: He's got his bat straightened out. And his head straightened out. And to me that means getting himself in top shape because... I don't see it. And taking some F'ing pride on defense. Which means getting into better shape and learning how to actually be more than just a 1-dimensional 1B'man (he can pick it with those errant throws... I don't see much else than that). Oh... and maybe Vilade could surprise everyone.

And Dingler. He's at .284 BA and .810 OPS at Toledo... But I won't project anything here. All I would say is it would be hard to be much worse than what Rogers has provided so far so might as well give Dingler a shot while Rogers straightens himself out in Toledo. Which he needs to do. And if Dingler somehow sticks... Rogers is a FA only after 2026 and Kelly is a FA this year... So keep Rogers whether he's a starter or a backup (but he's gotta play better than what he's shown this year) and Dingler shows Hinch what he can... or cannot... do. And Harris adjusts accordingly.

Just my 2 cents.

[Tenacious D]

Not in a rush to get Parker back, but agree he’ll deserve another shot.  Would like to see Dingler come up, but not sure he’d be an upgrade over Rogers.  Not on board with  demoting Vierling for Vilade, who strikes me as a 4A guy and organizational depth.

If we’re demoting/cutting anyone, it should be McKinstry.  I suspect he’s gone as soon as one of Kreidler or Leonard proves healthy and ready.

Edited May 25 by Tenacious D

[casimir]

17 hours ago, LongLiveMaroth said:

Not of Lange's meltdown but here is Hinch's reaction and the Royals announcers talking about it.

That wasn't a discussion about wedding gifts or curses on bats.

[1984Echoes]

8 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Not in a rush to get Parker back, but agree he’ll deserve another shot.  Would like to see Dingler come up, but not sure he’d be an upgrade over Rogers.  Not on board with  demoting Vierling for Vilade, who strikes me as a 4A guy and organizational depth.

If we’re demoting/cutting anyone, it should be McKinstry.  I suspect he’s gone as soon as one of Kreidler or Leonard proves healthy and ready.

The reasons Vierling goes down versus a different move:

As I said, it's not a punishment to him. It's simply a numbers crunch.

If/when Meadows gets another chance:

That's Canha, Carpenter, Greene, Meadows & Perez who can NOT play IF. That's a full deck in the OF and none of them go down to Toledo in favor of Vierling.

That limits Vierling to... 3B?

He's not great there. Adequate, but barely. You can't get rid of McKinstry because he's the ONLY SS on the roster outside of Baez. And he's a LH'er in the IF as well. Not any great advantage there.. but the Org is not going to dispense of McKinstry at this point in time, not in favor of Vierling. Not going to happen. And since Urshela and Ibanez are both RH'ers and play 3B... That makes Vierling virtually useless.

The worst that can happen to Vierling though, if Meadows can stick in MLB...

Is that Canha is a FA this year and Vierling has to wait until next year to be the 5th OF'er.

It is what it is.

[1984Echoes]

8 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Not in a rush to get Parker back, but agree he’ll deserve another shot.  Would like to see Dingler come up, but not sure he’d be an upgrade over Rogers.  Not on board with  demoting Vierling for Vilade, who strikes me as a 4A guy and organizational depth.

If we’re demoting/cutting anyone, it should be McKinstry.  I suspect he’s gone as soon as one of Kreidler or Leonard proves healthy and ready.

PS: Vierling does NOT get demoted for Vilade.

Torkelson gets demoted because he needs to straighten his **** out.

And Vilade has played a few games at 1B (not many). So it's Tork that gets demoted for Vilade. That should piss Tork off and motivate him... right?

[Hongbit]

A little bit of perspective.  

 

[chasfh]

31 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

A little bit of perspective.  

 

Progress! 😉

[casimir]

1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

A little bit of perspective.  

 

That’s misleading.  The Tigers as a whole are 89 OPS+.  That’s 27th out of 30 teams.

[casimir]

Poor Colt Keith is going to show his grandkids video of his first ever home run and his grandkids are going to say “Paw Paw, why are you wearing those silly looking jerseys?”.