buddha Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 52 minutes ago, oblong said: To me a criticism or gripe has to be followed up with a suggestion on what should have been done or could be done to solve the problem. The Tigers development problem goes back decades with multiple administrations, that’s no secret. But a single player is not an indictment by itself, even a #1. why? are we experts? as if the fact that the public - who is largely devoid of scouting information and expertise - didnt have a ready made answer instead of tork thus makes tork's failures not the fault of management. or his selection is ok because fans didnt know any better. its their job to know, not our job. were just fans. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 3 minutes ago, IdahoBert said: We know that he is capable of hitting the baseball on occasion so even though he doesn’t have an overall athleticism, he does possess this one aspect of athleticism so maybe he’s just a head case and needs the help of a baseball version of a “horse whisperer” but we don’t have one. he cant hit a major league fastball. that's not him being a "head case", that's him not having a basic ability needed to succeed at his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Photos emerged online of Keston Hiura leaving Toledo with his bags. Uncertain if he’s coming up as well or if he’s being released now that Tork is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 (edited) 30 minutes ago, buddha said: he cant hit a major league fastball. that's not him being a "head case", that's him not having a basic ability needed to succeed at his job. He can't hit a fastball right now, the question is whether that is a neuro-physiological limitation or th existence of mental confusion in the 150 milliseconds or so when he has to make up his mind. Without searching right now, I think I would find he tagged a good number of FBs hard in the 2nd half of last season when he had his best stretch. But we'll see if they can do anything with him in Toledo, though I will continue to wonder if the Tigers, with their emphasis on not swinging too much, are just a bad fit for a guy I think needs to swing more. Edited June 3 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerNation Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 10 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: He can't hit a fastball right now, the question is whether that is a neuro-physiological limitation or th existence of mental confusion in the 150 milliseconds or so when he has to make up his mind. Without searching right now, I think I would find he tagged a good number of FBs hard in the 2nd half of last season when he had his best stretch. But we'll see if they can do anything with him in Toledo, though I will continue to wonder if the Tigers, with their emphasis on not swinging too much, are just a bad fit for a guy I think needs to swing more. He crushed fastballs last year with 17 HRs and a BA/SLG of .270/.497 and a wOBA of .368. And the statcast data suggests he was really unlucky with an xBA/xSLG of .296/.570 and an xwOBA of .406. He sucked against breaking and off speed pitches where he had an xwOBA of .278 and .280. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Tork is proof that tanking is wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 I'm looking forward to what Malloy can do. His minor league numbers are very consistent. He gets on base at an elite level and has some power. He's exactly Harris' type of hitter. Let's see if his success in the minors can produce results in the Majors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 8 hours ago, buddha said: why? are we experts? as if the fact that the public - who is largely devoid of scouting information and expertise - didnt have a ready made answer instead of tork thus makes tork's failures not the fault of management. or his selection is ok because fans didnt know any better. its their job to know, not our job. were just fans. The history of the draft suggests that the experts often get it wrong. This is not like the NBA and NFL where there is a high probability of success with high draft picks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 8 hours ago, Hongbit said: Photos emerged online of Keston Hiura leaving Toledo with his bags. Uncertain if he’s coming up as well or if he’s being released now that Tork is there. He hasn't exactly set the world on fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 5 hours ago, Tigermojo said: I'm looking forward to what Malloy can do. His minor league numbers are very consistent. He gets on base at an elite level and has some power. He's exactly Harris' type of hitter. Let's see if his success in the minors can produce results in the Majors. My guess is that the Tigers felt Malloy’s issues at 3B weren’t conducive to an experiment at 1B. It’d have been nice to see a trial in Toledo. Or maybe it wouldn’t have. But along those defensive lines, I wonder if the decision to swap players was made slightly before/during the trip to Boston, but that just ain’t the place to debut Malloy as a possible defender. Hopefully Malloy’s bat proves worthy of staying and Torkleson can get his game together quickly for a speedy return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Let’s go back to the beginning of the season and consider just the offense. If you knew Torkleson and Meadows were demoted and Vierling and Perez were two of the better hitters on the team, what would be the expected team record right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 This is it for Tork. Either he gets this fixed now or it's probably time to call him a bust. I was hoping he could give us Jason Thompson-like numbers at some point, but that seems far-fetched now. Maybe its time to consider getting Malloy or Vierling some reps at first base. Gotta keep Matty V in the lineup every day now, until he cools off. Drafting a hitter 1-1 who can't catch up to a fastball is a pretty big fail, but I also believe that at least 3/4 of the league would have taken him first overall. Can their coaches fix him? As far as Meadows goes - he deserves another shot because of his hitting now at Toledo, but we also have to consider just how much better the pitching is in the majors, so maybe it's not real. Maybe there is no fixing Tork. What was he doing last year that changed this year? You see this kind of drop off when a player gets older, not now, not at this age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: This is it for Tork. Either he gets this fixed now or it's probably time to call him a bust. I was hoping he could give us Jason Thompson-like numbers at some point, but that seems far-fetched now. Maybe its time to consider getting Malloy or Vierling some reps at first base. Gotta keep Matty V in the lineup every day now, until he cools off. Drafting a hitter 1-1 who can't catch up to a fastball is a pretty big fail, but I also believe that at least 3/4 of the league would have taken him first overall. Can their coaches fix him? As far as Meadows goes - he deserves another shot because of his hitting now at Toledo, but we also have to consider just how much better the pitching is in the majors, so maybe it's not real. Maybe there is no fixing Tork. What was he doing last year that changed this year? You see this kind of drop off when a player gets older, not now, not at this age. I’m not sure it’s wise to put Malloy at 1B right now. Actually, it sounds pretty foolish given his resume. He’s making his MLB debut. He’s get a sketchy defensive reputation. He has hasn’t played 1B since college (2 games in 2019, 7 games in 2020). If 1B were an option, there was plenty of time to try that in Toledo. Now in Detroit isn’t the time to try it. Maybe there is no fixing Torkelson. Maybe he will be a bust. But there’s still time to work something out with him. He’s still only 24. I think there may be something to the previous administration promoting him too early which might still have some repercussions. But who knows for sure. The only known is that it’s not working in Detroit right now. Time to work on it in Toledo and see if his potential can be realized to some material extent. Edited June 3 by casimir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 I wonder if the decision to send Tork down was related to him reacting badly to not being PH when Rogers PH. I'm sensing AJ Hinch is doing some tough love lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 sad reality is this: Tork has a low ceiling as a ML player, and he may not reach it, especially not here tanking is so stupid especially in baseball and now we are hoping to get a CJ Cron-level player from the 1/1 pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 42 minutes ago, casimir said: I’m not sure it’s wise to put Malloy at 1B right now. Actually, it sounds pretty foolish given his resume. He’s making his MLB debut. He’s get a sketchy defensive reputation. He has hasn’t played 1B since college (2 games in 2019, 7 games in 2020). If 1B were an option, there was plenty of time to try that in Toledo. Now in Detroit isn’t the time to try it. Maybe there is no fixing Torkelson. Maybe he will be a bust. But there’s still time to work something out with him. He’s still only 24. I think there may be something to the previous administration promoting him too early which might still have some repercussions. But who knows for sure. The only known is that it’s not working in Detroit right now. Time to work on it in Toledo and see if his potential can be realized to some material extent. I'm not saying in games, but maybe get a look in practice just to see if it's a possibility - not for this year, but for the future. With what seems like a glut of outfielders, it could help him - but in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 I’d like to think they’d send Tork’s silly pizza on a spear invention down with him but I’m a realist. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 48 minutes ago, romad1 said: I wonder if the decision to send Tork down was related to him reacting badly to not being PH when Rogers PH. I'm sensing AJ Hinch is doing some tough love lately. I think AJ begging off on the question before the game (haven't discussed that this morning...trying to win the game) is an indication that they were sending him down after the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 12 hours ago, Edman85 said: Scouting in 2020 was a challenge. But man, there have been a lot of similar flops the last 5 years or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 (edited) 12 hours ago, Tenacious D said: (Ironically our best pitcher was a 9th rounder and hitter was a 19th). Because they went outside of Avila’s system and helped themselves. Edited June 3 by chasfh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 45 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: I'm not saying in games, but maybe get a look in practice just to see if it's a possibility - not for this year, but for the future. With what seems like a glut of outfielders, it could help him - but in the future. There was plenty of opportunity for that in Toledo. I wouldn’t think Torkelson being at 1B in Detroit would have precluded them from that. They figured out Malloy wasn’t a 3B. They know/think they have a glut of OF. 1B, even if only for once or twice a week in MLB future use, could have been worked on in the back half of last season or the first few months of this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 46 minutes ago, 1776 said: I’d like to think they’d send Tork’s silly pizza on a spear invention down with him but I’m a realist. Looking forward to the Packo’s dog on a stick in Toledo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 11 hours ago, oblong said: To me a criticism or gripe has to be followed up with a suggestion on what should have been done or could be done to solve the problem. The Tigers development problem goes back decades with multiple administrations, that’s no secret. But a single player is not an indictment by itself, even a #1. I also prefer it when people who criticize picks or trades or signings as being wrong then follow up with what they would have done instead. It gives us a sense of what those fans think is important, which makes debating them more fun, and they might even give us something to think about if they come up with a good alternative. Although, to be fair, many if not most fans are strictly emotional, so they shouldn’t be expected to debate such moves on intellectual terms. They can be simply reactive if they want, and that’s totally fine. It’s just that we don’t have to take their emotional ranting seriously, and we shouldn’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 (edited) 8 hours ago, SoCalTiger said: Tork is proof that tanking is wrong. The problem with the idea was that there were cutting edge organizations that actually succeeded through tanking because they were the first to do it, and then the me-too orgs followed it like it was a plug-and-play formula they could just order off the shelf. Edited June 3 by chasfh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, romad1 said: I wonder if the decision to send Tork down was related to him reacting badly to not being PH when Rogers PH. I'm sensing AJ Hinch is doing some tough love lately. I missed that story, do you have a link, or else a source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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