1984Echoes Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 41 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: If a team doesn't draft well or develop well, then they'll end end up with a bad farm system whether they tank or not. If they do things right, they can have a good farm system without tanking. That's exactly what I said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 (edited) Duplicate... Edited June 3 by 1984Echoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 #1 overall picks for the last 10 years: brady aiken dansby swanson mikey moniak royce lewis casey mize adley rutchsman tork! henry davis jackson holliday paul skenes not a ton of superstars in that mix....yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: That sounds unlikely. Am I supposed to believe they knew nothing about Skubal and selected him just bcause Boras suggested him? He gave you a complete and total mischaracterization of what actually happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: That sounds unlikely. Am I supposed to believe they knew nothing about Skubal and selected him just bcause Boras suggested him? That's OK, you don't have to believe it if you don't want. But David Chadd did admit as much in the article, and it is not a flattering thing to admit to, so I will take him at his word on it, and continue to remind people of it when it's brought up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, romad1 said: pure speculation. He PH Jake Rogers in the 10th during the rally. Jake has not been hitting almost as badly as Tork has not been hitting. That's fair, and you may be right after all, and I might further speculate that Hinch did not PH Tork there because they had already made the decision to option him, so another AB in the bigs would have done nothing to serve their objective of getting him back on track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 I was listening to the Ticket today and very surprised someone didn't call up with "Why don't we trade Torkelson & Mize for Vlad Guerrero Jr? I mean, that's 2 #1 picks.........Toronto would totally do that". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 28 minutes ago, HeyAbbott said: It seems to me that it can't be all hit or miss with respect to acquiring players. The Rays, the Dodgers, and until recently the Cardinals seem to be able to find ,draft,develop, and retain the correct players to be successful. Yes, some teams are better than others, but even the bad organizations can sometimes make the right move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 2 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: I was listening to the Ticket today and very surprised someone didn't call up with "Why don't we trade Torkelson & Mize for Vlad Guerrero Jr? I mean, that's 2 #1 picks.........Toronto would totally do that". Sounds like an opening for you ... 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 22 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: A team STILL has to do "Due Diligence" and "Pull the Trigger". Just because a scout, or Boras, makes a suggestion, does NOT mean that the Org just rolls over and does as directed by... Boras? Boras ORDERED the Tigers to draft Skiubal? No... he didn't. He made a suggestion, the team looked at it and did their due diligence. In fact, they had ALREADY done their due diligence. So here are a couple interesting/ key quotes from the article you posted: It was Boras who encouraged the Tigers to take a hard look at a 19-year-old New Jersey high school pitcher named Rick Porcello. Oh wait, wrong pitcher! But Boras gets ALL the credit because he suggested the Tigers look at Porcello, right? Using someone's F'd up logic. Skubal was on the Tigers’ board, as Pleis said, but there were red flags... “Actually, where we had him was right around when we took him,” Orr said. Oh. Did that just F-up chas's narrative? PS: these comments were not directed at you Rob but at the BS narrative that Boras basically made the selection for the Tigers. Because no, that's not what happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 5 minutes ago, chasfh said: That's OK, you don't have to believe it if you don't want. But David Chadd did admit as much in the article, and it is not a flattering thing to admit to, so I will take him at his word on it, and continue to remind people of it when it's brought up. I don't think he admitted to quite what I think you're saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Tigers retiring Leyland's #10. https://ilitchnewshub.com/2024/06/detroit-tigers-to-retire-10-in-honor-of-jim-leyland-on-august-3/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1xMbz9QYw9onfNsoeILJw-fiQ4hozXDtRUJoyteroKvmJwdH9NLGRtvpU_aem_ARUVykr-gk5fFBmiIgNYOXWnky5ynlMnHOE5Q1MAFiV9uM_bxA6qBE4jtfffNFkz9U5mla2BZHVorQBF_T0VCs3h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I don't think he admitted to quite what I think you're saying. This makes it a little clearer: “We had a lot of reports on this guy,” Orr said. “We had reports from the area scouts, multiple crosscheckers. Tim Hallgren (national crosschecker who specializes in pitcher evaluations) had the best velo on him. He had him up to 95. “It was like, ‘Wow, here we are getting ready to go into the ninth round and we’ve got a left-handed pitcher who throws 95, that we have a lot of good information on from people that we trust.’ There’s some good numbers there. And yes, there are some concerning numbers, too.” Would the Tigers have taken Skubal without the nudge from the Boras Corporation? “Information is paramount,” Pleis said. “And relationships are extremely important. We scout them, we evaluate them. We evaluate their makeup, their ability, their tools — we evaluate everything there is to evaluate, the medicals, everything. “But when you get more information like we did, the best way to say it is, when David got the phone call from Scott Chiamparino — we’ve talked with these people over the years, not just with this player, we know where these guys are coming from — I think that did take us over the top. No question about it.” Edited June 3 by 1984Echoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 22 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I don't think he admitted to quite what I think you're saying. Rolling the dice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 2 hours ago, chasfh said: The problem with the idea was that there were cutting edge organizations that actually succeeded through tanking because they were the first to do it, and then the me-too orgs followed it like it was a plug-and-play formula they could just order off the shelf. They were lucky with the players available. We were not. I don’t advocate for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 37 minutes ago, chasfh said: That's OK, you don't have to believe it if you don't want. But David Chadd did admit as much in the article, and it is not a flattering thing to admit to, so I will take him at his word on it, and continue to remind people of it when it's brought up. That’s my understanding as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 7 minutes ago, chasfh said: Rolling the dice. I don't think that's an unfair way to look at it. It's the 9th round. By that point you still have good players but there's issues, otherwise they woudn't be there to pick. How many times did they draft someone in rounds 6-12 where they had similar conversations with agents? This one hit. At that point you are gathering as much info as possible and this is just another piece of it. Teams have info on hundreds of players each draft, that's their job. If someone read your comment to mean "They just went in there blind and listened to Scott Boras" then that's on them to be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 15 minutes ago, chasfh said: Rolling the dice. Like most MLB draft picks... Who told the Tigers to pick Colt Keith in the 5th round? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: That's exactly what I said. Thus, Tanking is not necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 1 minute ago, Tiger337 said: Like most MLB draft picks... Who told the Tigers to pick Colt Keith in the 5th round? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 39 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Thus, Tanking is not necessary. Sure if you ignore all the data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 35 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Thus, Tanking is not necessary. Not completely: A. ... If they do things right, they can have a good farm system without tanking. Thus, Tanking is not necessary. B. If a team doesn't draft well or develop well, then they'll end end up with a bad farm system whether they tank or not... If they have some way of propping up a competitive team other than relying on farm system (trades, FA's) then: Thus, Tanking is not necessary. C. If a team doesn't draft well or develop well, then they'll end end up with a bad farm system whether they tank or not... If a team has allowed its good players to age out (no longer productive/ they retire or are injured/ cannot trade them for anything), get little in trade for the few assets that are tradeable, have a barren farm system... then NO amount of FA additions will save that team. They will be at the bottom of the heap. You can't BUY a competitive team through FA without having some foundation to rebuild the team. Hence: a rebuild (NOT tanking). Draft and development have to be fixed. A foundation built. And then smart trades/ FA signings can bring back a competitive team. The Tigers were NOT A or B, they were C. Hence the multiple losing years whilst they tried to fix everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 35 minutes ago, KL2 said: Sure if you ignore all the data. We have been through this before. Teams are built in many different ways. Not even trying to win and losing 100+ games for multiple years is not the only way to build and I don't think it's a particularly good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Word on the street is Hinch plans to play Malloy only against lefties and pinch hit occasionally. Sounds like Hinch is setting him up to fail from the start. I know, I shouldn't question the sage of the garbage cans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gilmore Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Source? Why is that setting him up to fail? Do we know how long that limited role would last, or if it would change based on results? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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