2024 DETROIT TIGERS REGULAR SEASON THREAD

[Shades of Deivi Cruz]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

They should move on from both.  But I'm not sure who replaces them.

McKinstry was pretty effective yesterday out of the pen. As a bonus, it would keep his bat out of the lineup.

[kdog]

I wonder if Harris has to restart the rebuild. Petzold mentioned that with this season heading nowhere and the huge hitting needs, will he now retrench and point to 2026 and 2027?

If a healthy Riley Greene is a good to very good player, he likely needs more offensive help. Even if Tork returns to mediocre numbers, he can't be a guy you can count on in 2025.

Skubal is only under control through 2026...and he's an older young pitcher. So we might have to face some grim realities if this team isn't a true contender..and if Harris can't find a path to contention within his self imposed low risk and payroll restrictions.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

They can’t continue to let him pitch in the major leagues with these numbers.   They need to send him down to work on his stuff and figure things out.  The only positive about this tailspin is that nobody will claim him now when he hits waivers.   

[Tenacious D]

41 minutes ago, kdog said:

I wonder if Harris has to restart the rebuild. Petzold mentioned that with this season heading nowhere and the huge hitting needs, will he now retrench and point to 2026 and 2027?

If a healthy Riley Greene is a good to very good player, he likely needs more offensive help. Even if Tork returns to mediocre numbers, he can't be a guy you can count on in 2025.

Skubal is only under control through 2026...and he's an older young pitcher. So we might have to face some grim realities if this team isn't a true contender..and if Harris can't find a path to contention within his self imposed low risk and payroll restrictions.

Why does it need to be a rebuild?  How about going out acquiring three legitimate bats and see if the lineup protection can help Greene and Keith (maybe Tork) improve as well as support Clark and McGonigle when they are ready.  The draft is a bit of a crapshoot—I like the Dombrowski model where you improve through trades for more proven players.

[kdog]

42 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Why does it need to be a rebuild?  How about going out acquiring three legitimate bats and see if the lineup protection can help Greene and Keith (maybe Tork) improve as well as support Clark and McGonigle when they are ready.  The draft is a bit of a crapshoot—I like the Dombrowski model where you improve through trades for more proven players.

I would love to see it. We don't know yet if Harris is ready to take risks and make baseball trades. I don't think they are going to be adding veterans on long term contracts.

Petzold's take was that Harris is going to point to the McGonigle, Briceno, and Clark wave as the next stage of contention. It might be guess work but I don't see a path of making this team good unless he is ready to multiple major league hitters to the team.

Edited June 6 by kdog

[Edman85]

1 hour ago, kdog said:

I wonder if Harris has to restart the rebuild. Petzold mentioned that with this season heading nowhere and the huge hitting needs, will he now retrench and point to 2026 and 2027?

If a healthy Riley Greene is a good to very good player, he likely needs more offensive help. Even if Tork returns to mediocre numbers, he can't be a guy you can count on in 2025.

Skubal is only under control through 2026...and he's an older young pitcher. So we might have to face some grim realities if this team isn't a true contender..and if Harris can't find a path to contention within his self imposed low risk and payroll restrictions.

Am I crazy or are they .500 in an era where 85 wins gets you into the playoffs?

[SoCalTiger]

2 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Am I crazy or are they .500 in an era where 85 wins gets you into the playoffs?

They are and rebuild is a nasty word in my vocabulary. How about we just keep trying to incrementally get better. Just add more short term veteran additions in free agentcy and let the rookies work their way in. Stop the anointing. Trade from surplus once achieved. Build your team plan with pencil not pen and be flexible. 

[casimir]

12 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Am I crazy or are they .500 in an era where 85 wins gets you into the playoffs?

Why not both?

[1984Echoes]

3 hours ago, casimir said:

They should move on from both.  But I'm not sure who replaces them...

And Holton would be the only lefty in the bullpen so both Harris & Hinch would want some other lefty (possibly two) as a replacement... Narrowing the possibilities.

[LongLiveMaroth]

2 hours ago, casimir said:

Those BAbips are really high. 

[Motor City Sonics]

2 hours ago, casimir said:

He's left-handed and breathing.  He'll find a spot in the big leagues.      Anyone know if Jamie Moyer is busy? 

[kdog]

1 hour ago, Edman85 said:

Am I crazy or are they .500 in an era where 85 wins gets you into the playoffs?

Not crazy...but will he hold onto Flaherty and other guys if they are still in this position a month from now?

[oblong]

2 minutes ago, kdog said:

Not crazy...but will he hold onto Flaherty and other guys if they are still in this position a month from now?

I think yes... unless the return makes the major league team better.  I don't think he's going to be flipping guys for prospects anymore. No more Daz Camerons.  

[kdog]

21 minutes ago, oblong said:

I think yes... unless the return makes the major league team better.  I don't think he's going to be flipping guys for prospects anymore. No more Daz Camerons.  

I hope you're right. I'm tired of restarting the cycle.

[Tiger337]

They are decent enough now where they can try to win, but not good enough where they should trade away top prospects for short-term solutions.  So, I think it makes sense to make more acquisitions like Canha who can give the team more offense without losing young talent or making long-term committments.  If they are still within a couple of wins of the wildcard near the deadline, then I don't want them flipping good players for prospects.  

[RandyMarsh]

Tigers announce new premium seating 'Home Plate Club' coming to Comerica Park in 2025 - https://www.wxyz.com/sports/tigers-announce-new-premium-seating-home-plate-club-coming-to-comerica-park-in-2025

I was wondering if/when the Tigers would upgrade their seating around home plate and Apparently it is coming next season.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said:

And Holton would be the only lefty in the bullpen so both Harris & Hinch would want some other lefty (possibly two) as a replacement... Narrowing the possibilities.

No argument.  Like I said, I don't know who the replacements would be.  But I'd prefer effective Ps regardless of which limb they pitch with.

[Sports_Freak]

I remember when the Tigers were so good that we had off-day threads just to keep us all going for a day. Ahhh....the good old days!

[alex]

3 hours ago, kdog said:

I would love to see it. We don't know yet if Harris is ready to take risks and make baseball trades. I don't think they are going to be adding veterans on long term contracts.

Petzold's take was that Harris is going to point to the McGonigle, Briceno, and Clark wave as the next stage of contention. It might be guess work but I don't see a path of making this team good unless he is ready to multiple major league hitters to the team.

 

1 hour ago, kdog said:

I hope you're right. I'm tired of restarting the cycle.

All IMHO, I have been saying for some time SHarris (and the current regime) have to start adding the right pieces yesterday. This 'core group' thing is just kicking the can down the road. All GMs have the job to not only identify what the team will look like now, but two years from now and further.

Current Team: they have to be able to tell what players fit. They have been evaluating now for 1 1/2 yrs. It does not have to be conclusive, but a good idea should be there and if not - the wrong people are in charge. The other players then can be potentially dealt if better value can come back (in their eyes).

Trades: Here is where some things can be done 'now'. They do not have to wait. Identify a player(s) they like and get one or two. You do not have to trade your top 4-5 prospects per say to get a player on a team that is young but his position is blocked (see LAD, Balt., etc.) and/or another MLB decent player who a team may wish to rid ex expiring contract, etc.

IF we do not think Mize, Manning, Tork, Baddoo, etc. are not 'core' players then I bet there are teams out there willing to take some of these under their wing.

I would like to see a value for value trade. Perhaps we see someone who we feel can help us out, who is in the same boat on another team - then we can use that phrase 'come here and get better' . Prove it.

A good GM can identify and make trades. We need to find a Carlos Guillen, JD Martinez, Doug Fister, GSheffield, etc. type. Sure not all will work out, but some players have to be obtained this route... So far? Maybe Vierling, Lee, JHM. Yet, (a lot more versatile INF types who seemingly 'work the count': Kennedy, Maton, Rizzo, Skolak, Nevin, etc. have not worked).

No it is not easy but a good GM can do this.

Free agents: I do not think you can just say, 'OK we are pretty good right now and we need to add a player' then all of a sudden a particular player becomes a free agent. FAs are random. Just because we need 'X' does not mean 2-3 are ready for the taking - or that position is even strong in FA at that time. Besides other teams have interest AND Comerica is not a great sell for offensive type FAs (pay or not - the good ones can often choose).

That is why trades are so important. Identify and go after.

To me it does not seem this team is really interested any FA players to long term deals (maybe not even their own-yikes) - and I actually agree here probably 90% especially SPs. SHarris has a track record of short term deals. Incentive type deals. Ps that are the rebound (did this at SF as well).

Sometimes this may work ex Rodon & Cobb ('22), Lorenzen ('23) and so far Flaherty ('24) and sometimes not Junis & Boyd ('22), Boyd ('23) and so far Maeda ('24 & '25). Its a crap shot and 50% is not bad really. Here the front office needs to identify and then have ownership's backing. AA got this far, then FA failures and injuries prevailed. IMHO, AA did not have anywhere close to the right development people for most of his GM tenure, then what little he did later was too late (ex AJ and Garko). SHarris seems to understand the FA aspect part of this.

Drafting and development: This needs to take place and is number one with putting together a mid to small market team. I/we hope this has and is getting better...

My point is once again, acquiring good players needs to take place. Not all will be through drafting and development and certainly SHarris is not a big FA type GM (and maybe for good reason). Good players can be added through trades. Some of it is luck and the most under rated aspect is injuries. They are always there, hence depth, especially with pitching, is a must.

My Humble Conclusion: I would like to see SHarris (JGreenberg and this group) find some 'gold nuggets' with a couple of trades. My biggest point is there is no need to wait here. This can happen at any time. Find the players. If he cannot do this - then he/his group is only going to be 'holding up the bridge' for the next regime - who will want 'time' to rebuild and give us their rendition of 'the plan'. ; )  Go Tigs!

Edited June 6 by alex

[kdog]

35 minutes ago, alex said:

 

All IMHO, I have been saying for some time SHarris (and the current regime) have to start adding the right pieces yesterday. This 'core group' thing is just kicking the can down the road. All GMs have the job to not only identify what the team will look like now, but two years from now and further.

Current Team: they have to be able to tell what players fit. They have been evaluating now for 1 1/2 yrs. It does not have to be conclusive, but a good idea should be there and if not - the wrong people are in charge. The other players then can be potentially dealt if better value can come back (in their eyes).

Trades: Here is where some things can be done 'now'. They do not have to wait. Identify a player(s) they like and get one or two. You do not have to trade your top 4-5 prospects per say to get a player on a team that is young but his position is blocked (see LAD, Balt., etc.) and/or another MLB decent player who a team may wish to rid ex expiring contract, etc.

IF we do not think Mize, Manning, Tork, Baddoo, etc. are not 'core' players then I bet there are teams out there willing to take some of these under their wing.

I would like to see a value for value trade. Perhaps we see someone who we feel can help us out, who is in the same boat on another team - then we can use that phrase 'come here and get better' . Prove it.

A good GM can identify and make trades. We need to find a Carlos Guillen, JD Martinez, Doug Fister, GSheffield, etc. type. Sure not all will work out, but some players have to be obtained this route... So far? Maybe Vierling, Lee, JHM. Yet, (a lot more versatile INF types who seemingly 'work the count': Kennedy, Maton, Rizzo, Skolak, Nevin, etc. have not worked).

No it is not easy but a good GM can do this.

Free agents: I do not think you can just say, 'OK we are pretty good right now and we need to add a player' then all of a sudden a particular player becomes a free agent. FAs are random. Just because we need 'X' does not mean 2-3 are ready for the taking - or that position is even strong in FA at that time. Besides other teams have interest AND Comerica is not a great sell for offensive type FAs (pay or not - the good ones can often choose).

That is why trades are so important. Identify and go after.

To me it does not seem this team is really interested any FA players to long term deals (maybe not even their own-yikes) - and I actually agree here probably 90% especially SPs. SHarris has a track record of short term deals. Incentive type deals. Ps that are the rebound (did this at SF as well).

Sometimes this may work ex Rodon & Cobb ('22), Lorenzen ('23) and so far Flaherty ('24) and sometimes not Junis & Boyd ('22), Boyd ('23) and so far Maeda ('24 & '25). Its a crap shot and 50% is not bad really. Here the front office needs to identify and then have ownership's backing. AA got this far, then FA failures and injuries prevailed. IMHO, AA did not have anywhere close to the right development people for most of his GM tenure, then what little he did later was too late (ex AJ and Garko). SHarris seems to understand the FA aspect part of this.

Drafting and development: This needs to take place and is number one with putting together a mid to small market team. I/we hope this has and is getting better...

My point is once again, acquiring good players needs to take place. Not all will be through drafting and development and certainly SHarris is not a big FA type GM (and maybe for good reason). Good players can be added through trades. Some of it is luck and the most under rated aspect is injuries. They are always there, hence depth, especially with pitching, is a must.

My Humble Conclusion: I would like to see SHarris (JGreenberg and this group) find some 'gold nuggets' with a couple of trades. My biggest point is there is no need to wait here. This can happen at any time. Find the players. If he cannot do this - then he/his group is only going to be 'holding up the bridge' for the next regime - who will want 'time' to rebuild and give us their rendition of 'the plan'. ; )  Go Tigs!

Good post.

[Tenacious D]

Harris definitely has a “type” so far into his Tigers tenure—reclamation projects and other team’s discards, hoping that the org’s player development can improve some of these guys.  It’s worked in a few instances—Ibanez, Holton, Lorenzen and Flaherty.  I think he needs to start going after more established players, particularly at positions where we don’t have an imminent solution—1B, SS and a corner OF.

Edited June 6 by Tenacious D

[Sports_Freak]

3 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Harris definitely has a “type” so far into his Tigers tenure—reclamation projects and other team’s discards, hoping that the org’s player development can improve some of these guys.  It’s worked in a few instances—Ibanez, Holton, Lorenzen and Flaherty.  I think he needs to start going after more established players, particularly at positions where we don’t have an imminent solution—1B, SS and a corner OF.

That's pretty obvious to fans but what we dont know about is if he's under orders to keep the payroll low. That would explain a lot, why he goes after these prove-it type players. They're less expensive.

[Tigermojo]

Matt Vierling on Have a Seat

https://youtu.be/DueaVKE4Tfk?si=SNQIiOUxHEtQIvFu

[IdahoBert]

5 hours ago, alex said:

 

All IMHO, I have been saying for some time SHarris (and the current regime) have to start adding the right pieces yesterday. This 'core group' thing is just kicking the can down the road. All GMs have the job to not only identify what the team will look like now, but two years from now and further.

Current Team: they have to be able to tell what players fit. They have been evaluating now for 1 1/2 yrs. It does not have to be conclusive, but a good idea should be there and if not - the wrong people are in charge. The other players then can be potentially dealt if better value can come back (in their eyes).

Trades: Here is where some things can be done 'now'. They do not have to wait. Identify a player(s) they like and get one or two. You do not have to trade your top 4-5 prospects per say to get a player on a team that is young but his position is blocked (see LAD, Balt., etc.) and/or another MLB decent player who a team may wish to rid ex expiring contract, etc.

IF we do not think Mize, Manning, Tork, Baddoo, etc. are not 'core' players then I bet there are teams out there willing to take some of these under their wing.

I would like to see a value for value trade. Perhaps we see someone who we feel can help us out, who is in the same boat on another team - then we can use that phrase 'come here and get better' . Prove it.

A good GM can identify and make trades. We need to find a Carlos Guillen, JD Martinez, Doug Fister, GSheffield, etc. type. Sure not all will work out, but some players have to be obtained this route... So far? Maybe Vierling, Lee, JHM. Yet, (a lot more versatile INF types who seemingly 'work the count': Kennedy, Maton, Rizzo, Skolak, Nevin, etc. have not worked).

No it is not easy but a good GM can do this.

Free agents: I do not think you can just say, 'OK we are pretty good right now and we need to add a player' then all of a sudden a particular player becomes a free agent. FAs are random. Just because we need 'X' does not mean 2-3 are ready for the taking - or that position is even strong in FA at that time. Besides other teams have interest AND Comerica is not a great sell for offensive type FAs (pay or not - the good ones can often choose).

That is why trades are so important. Identify and go after.

To me it does not seem this team is really interested any FA players to long term deals (maybe not even their own-yikes) - and I actually agree here probably 90% especially SPs. SHarris has a track record of short term deals. Incentive type deals. Ps that are the rebound (did this at SF as well).

Sometimes this may work ex Rodon & Cobb ('22), Lorenzen ('23) and so far Flaherty ('24) and sometimes not Junis & Boyd ('22), Boyd ('23) and so far Maeda ('24 & '25). Its a crap shot and 50% is not bad really. Here the front office needs to identify and then have ownership's backing. AA got this far, then FA failures and injuries prevailed. IMHO, AA did not have anywhere close to the right development people for most of his GM tenure, then what little he did later was too late (ex AJ and Garko). SHarris seems to understand the FA aspect part of this.

Drafting and development: This needs to take place and is number one with putting together a mid to small market team. I/we hope this has and is getting better...

My point is once again, acquiring good players needs to take place. Not all will be through drafting and development and certainly SHarris is not a big FA type GM (and maybe for good reason). Good players can be added through trades. Some of it is luck and the most under rated aspect is injuries. They are always there, hence depth, especially with pitching, is a must.

My Humble Conclusion: I would like to see SHarris (JGreenberg and this group) find some 'gold nuggets' with a couple of trades. My biggest point is there is no need to wait here. This can happen at any time. Find the players. If he cannot do this - then he/his group is only going to be 'holding up the bridge' for the next regime - who will want 'time' to rebuild and give us their rendition of 'the plan'. ; )  Go Tigs!

This is really thoughtful and it took a lot of time. Thanks for doing it.

[oblong]

I’m still haven’t been  convinced by anyone the last year or so who exactly Harris should have signed or traded for (and with that?).  There isn’t a GM store with items you need.  You can’t trade a lot of crap for something mediocre.