2024 DETROIT TIGERS REGULAR SEASON THREAD

[Edman85]

Bo Bichette would likely cost Jobe, Clark, and maybe Jung.

[1984Echoes]

Just now, oblong said:

... You guys are criticizing him for something that ...

I am NOT criticizing Harris... AT ALL.

Is that how you are taking it?

Maybe some others are criticizing him...

I am NOT.

I'm just saying that in order to build a contending team, he will have to make trades or sign FA's to fill holes. I have, personally, said nothing more than that. No criticism whatsoever. It's simply a part of his job description. Why are you taking that as some sort of criticism of Harris?

Also... I do NOT think Alex is criticizing him either. He is just saying that that is part of the job. Which is a true statement. I see nothing inflammatory or critical in that statement whatsoever.

[1984Echoes]

2 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Bo Bichette would likely cost Jobe, Clark, and maybe Jung.

I don't want Bichette. I'll take the AAA guy that is blocked by Bo Bichette.

[Toddwert]

 

7 minutes ago, oblong said:

real life is not a video game.  When has he or anyone suggested that trades and FA signings won't happen.  Just because they don't happen on your timeline doesn't mean the process is flawed.  

It's ****ing June 7 and the team is over .500 and everybody here acts like it's the 2003 Tigers.

 

so we should be just happy with the same thing every year? around .500 Come on the Royals have won a WS since we have and they are closer to one then we are right now

Edited June 7 by Toddwert

[microline133]

Good luck with the utility infielder "stuck" in AAA.

[casimir]

1 minute ago, 1984Echoes said:

I don't want Bichette. I'll take the AAA guy that is blocked by Bo Bichette.

I don't know anything (well, anything really) the SS in AAA.  But does Toronto see him as the next SS should Bichette move along?  That might make him unavailable.

[Toddwert]

1 minute ago, microline133 said:

Good luck with the utility infielder "stuck" in AAA.

AKA Harris's favorite players

[theroundsquare]

20 minutes ago, Toddwert said:

Jack Flaherty for Colby Mayo

Jack Flaherty for turkey on wheat with colby and mayo.  now that's a deal i'm ready to make

Edited June 7 by theroundsquare

[1984Echoes]

5 minutes ago, oblong said:

real life is not a video game.  When has he or anyone suggested that trades and FA signings won't happen.  Just because they don't happen on your timeline doesn't mean the process is flawed.  

It's ****ing June 7 and the team is over .500 and everybody here acts like it's the 2003 Tigers.

 

Dude...

You're talking to the wrong dude.

I'm not playing a video game. I don't have any immediate timeframe. I'm not bitching about what did or did not happen this past offseason. I never expected anything but a .500 team this year and lots of sifting through kids to see what sticks and what doesn't. I'm certainly not acting like it's the 2003 Tigers. Did you forget I'm the annoyingly optimistic one...?

I think you have me confused with someone else.

[1984Echoes]

6 minutes ago, microline133 said:

Good luck with the utility infielder "stuck" in AAA.

But would he be better than Baez?

We do have a pretty low bar at SS... at the moment.

PS: even if he ends up as a stopgap until something better can be obtained... As long as he's better than Baez...

 

 

Edited June 7 by 1984Echoes

[casimir]

1 minute ago, 1984Echoes said:

Dude...

You're talking to the wrong dude.

I'm not playing a video game. I don't have any immediate timeframe. I'm not bitching about what did or did not happen this past offseason. I never expected anything but a .500 team this year and lots of sifting through kids to see what sticks and what doesn't. I'm certainly not acting like it's the 2003 Tigers. Did you forget I'm the annoyingly optimistic one...?

I think you have me confused with someone else.

Dude.  You went from CAPS to bold underline?

Oh, man, I'm out....

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, Toddwert said:

because why wouldnt you say we tried to sign X player?

Generally speaking, it's not in the interest of any GM or POBO in this sport to broadcast their innermost thoughts on past deliberations to the rest of the league. Scott Harris isn't unique in that regard.... I don't see any of them doing it, not just him.

I have no idea what players the Tigers were or weren't in on last offseason, but often what the fans ask for in transparency would, in practice, would have negative knock-on effects in practice

Edited June 7 by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

18 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Canha was a short fuse. Milwaukee was going to decline his option, so you either had to acquire him for a minor league reliever and pick up his option or fight with 28 other teams for his services. There was no option to wait around and see if you won the Teoscar sweepstakes.

And if they did wait around and see if they won the Teoscar sweepstakes and didn't (a highly likely outcome in this hypothetical), they'd be getting blasted by the same folks complaining that they settled on Mark Canha.

Just can't win with that logic.

[Toddwert]

this is why no one post who the Tigers should've signed or traded for 

[casimir]

8 minutes ago, Toddwert said:

this is why no one post who the Tigers should've signed or traded for 

You're right.  Nobody mentioned anything this offseason.  Except maybe in this thread.

[oblong]

21 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Generally speaking, it's not in the interest of any GM or POBO in this sport to broadcast their innermost thoughts on past deliberations to the rest of the league. Scott Harris isn't unique in that regard.... I don't see any of them doing it, not just him.

I have no idea what players the Tigers were or weren't in on last offseason, but often what the fans ask for in transparency would, in practice, would have negative knock-on effects in practice

Randy Smith claimed he had deals for Bernie Williams and Mariano Rivera.

 

[oblong]

30 minutes ago, Toddwert said:

 

so we should be just happy with the same thing every year? around .500 Come on the Royals have won a WS since we have and they are closer to one then we are right now

What difference does it make what we think or feel?  Front Offices don't react to fans whining on the internet.  I'm not going to NOT go to a game because a guy didn't make some trades I thought he should have.  I go to games to have fun and spend time with family and friends and enjoy it.  Winning makes it fun, and stressful, but I don't let a lack of it ruin my day or evening.  Their wins don't pay my mortgage so it doesn't really affect me one way or another.

 

[mtutiger]

1 minute ago, oblong said:

Randy Smith claimed he had deals for Bernie Williams and Mariano Rivera.

 

That explains a lot lol

[mtutiger]

23 minutes ago, Toddwert said:

this is why no one post who the Tigers should've signed or traded for 

As far as I can tell, people are free to express who they want to sign or trade for. It doesn't mean that everyone is going to agree with them or will look at the situation the same way.

My thing with this conversation is that we're talking about Mark Canha who, by all accounts, has been exactly as advertised this year. As Ed laid out, there was a scenario to bring him in, and this team was a really good fit in terms of his skillset and where he is at in his career. 

I understand that he isn't the greatest hitter in the world and all, but even with him being one of their more productive players and being as advertised, it's never enough because Teoscar Hernandez. Or Joc Pederson. Or [insert name here].

And certainly, on Earth 2.0 where they pass on Canha and go chips all-in on Teoscar and come up short, it would be 2023 all over again with people saying "why aren't they doing anything". I've seen this movie before, and it's getting as old as watching the actual team can be sometimes.

Edited June 7 by mtutiger

[Motor City Sonics]

16 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I hope the White Sux let the 1962 Mets off the hook.    I mean, they were an expansion team in an era when expansion teams didn't get nearly the breaks they do now.  At least they had an excuse. 

Sox Sux Watch

2024  White Sox  15-48

2003  Tigers 16-47

1962 Mets  17-46

 

I believe they can do it !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Toddwert]

nevermind

Edited June 7 by Toddwert

[kdog]

I'm certainly cynical about all rebuilds in sports. We' ve been told by organizations in every league that we need to tank to rebuild..we need to re-align our payroll. Spending is secondary. How do you build a team if 3 guys(Manning, Mize, and Tork) all turn out to be mid at best? That's my test for Harris. Maybe their development team uncovers some hidden gems.

Like we said earlier, Wenceel might be the proxy for Meadows? Today, I don't see the path to build a real sustainable contender with the current holes on the roster and the talent level of the upper minors(offense).

[alex]

1 hour ago, oblong said:

the lack of those trades being made is what shoots it down.  Scott isn't doing what you propose because other organizations dont want to.

Think about what you are suggesting.
Trades aren't being made.  The possible reasons for that:

1) Scott doesn't want to.  That assumes he took this job and the org made all these hires in the front office and change in staff but he's just being stubborn and doesn't want to improve the team in some sinister plot to make the team suffer because that looks great on a resume.

2) He's stupid and doesn't know how to do it

3) The teams are not seeing a fit in potential trade offers.

I am not saying Scott Harris is stupid. On the contrary, I think he is pretty smart. However, to work a deal one has to have an ability, a knack, a savvy for this type of thing - some have this and some do not. I am wondering if anyone in this /FO office has this ?!?

For AA, he had abilities in certain areas. He did some good things ex Miggy, JD, the trade of DNorris for Olsen, his own scouting years ago... he could use the owners funds ex JUpton, Zimmerman, ERod, Javy, etc... but he could not work a good deal when he had JV and JD to deal. He/even many of us 'thought' the JV deal 'could' be decent. Go back to that time and quite a few people did. Yet, as I said injuries are huge (see FPerez) and prospects are just that. He had proven commodities both times and unfortunately those deals were not positive for this franchise (no offense Jake R., as you are doing alright) and set us back (as did his FA signings).

As for DD he traded a few top prospects at the time ex JTurner to FL (Sanchez and Omar), GKapler (Juan Gone deal), etc. and they really did not work out for the 'prospects'. Yet, he could negotiate the good deals ex CGuillen, DFister, for even marginal players/prospects, etc. and three way deals ex Max, AJ, etc. He had his short comings also (we all do).

Again I am not advocating dealing our top prospects. Those lists are volatile. We see MLP Pipeline, BA, Fan graphs, etc. Heck for instance the Tigs could rate RCampos as their no. 4 prospect, another team as the no. 5 on our list and what fans see may be no. 18 on a public list.

These are not negatives toward the current regime. They are observations.  I stand by that a deal can be done at anytime to improve this org - My questioning is 'Can the current FO/SHarris improve this team with trades?' and IMHO if the current FO cannot do this, whether now or in 2 mos. or 1 year - then it will be much harder to succeed and we may be eventually looking at another rebuild.

Also, I agree with Toddwert, we do have some talent in the organization. Perhaps more than we have had in awhile. I do not think it is ' a lot of crap' as was mentioned. Other GMs/FOs here and elsewhere did & do deals with less. I am 'hoping' this FO can accomplish some good deals. We all know you have to acquire players via trades at times, not just waiver pick-ups and ownership spending. Again, identify, target and 'negotiate' the deal. Just as Tampa did with IParedes and MANY others with trades through history.

Is this FO capable of doing this?

Just a question that has not been answered positively, IMHO, as of yet. I am hoping. Go Tigs
😊

[alex]

1 hour ago, Edman85 said:

Bo Bichette would likely cost Jobe, Clark, and maybe Jung.

I would not do that deal. IMHO, the Jays would not get that equivalent from any other team either.

[tiger2022]

2 hours ago, oblong said:

yes they are allowed but when the other side is just as smart or smarter then they can be more difficult.  I don't buy a magic bullet theory where Scott and his team have the ability to find a gem that other orgs don't know about.  Most of the orgs are pretty smart, except Chicago.  That's not a criticism but when you say AA wasn't a good GM and then use his trades where he sent over a good young player as proof that your new GM can acquire good players at any time..... that's kind of a contradiction unless Al Avila got a new job somewhere and you can snooker him. 

With all due respect, I seriously doubt GMs are out to try to screw another GM.  That would be terrible for your reputation.  Who would want to deal with you?