RatkoVarda Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 12 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: Vierling, Canha, Malloy, and Hao Yu Lee would like a word with you. And if you're talking about minor leaguers and not just trade acquisitions: McGonigle and Clark would also like a word. your standards are way too low Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 13 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: your standards are way too low That is not correct. My standards are not too low. This is the correct way to put it: My standards are "all-encompassing." I love the Miggy Cabreras and JV's and Scherzer's and Skubal's and (hopefully) Riley Greene's as much as the next guy. But I also know that there is no one that can construct an ENTIRE TEAM consisting of all-stars from top to bottom. That's just not realistic. So I embrace the top-level players and hope Harris can construct a team with enough of them to make us a real contender. But I ALSO embrace the bottom 10-15 players on a roster because if they are total crap then a top heavy team won't survive the entire season, won't survive injuries, and has a serious chance of not making the playoffs... because... baseball. So yes... I embrace the 4th OF'ers and the "glue guys" and the middle relievers and others that ALSO are a required part of any real, serious, contender. Why is this such a problem for everyone? Vierling is not the problem. Baez is. Tork is. Etc. So my standards are perfectly fine. I recognize what Vierling, Malloy, Lee and Canha are. And their limitations. Or their correct spot on any contending team. Unless you're telling me that Clark and McGonigle are garbage prospects and therefore my standards are too low...? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: Show me where I said "amazing hitters". The question was: Can Harris identify (or not) hitters? I believe they qualify as hitters. At least adequate. No one said anything about amazing. But if you're looking for amazing, that's going to take a long time because Clark and McGonigle were just drafted, and are still 19. All of the others are just "useful bats" plus or minus. But then... A team could use "useful bats" just as much as amazing hitters, especially when that team is the current version of the Detroit Tigers. And since this is a transition year... it doesn't matter that Malloy has 2 MLB games and Lee 0... It's can they succeed in MLB? It's the only question that matters this year. And that's true not for just Malloy & Vierling, but also Spencer Torkelson, Colt Keith, Parker Meadows, Matt Manning, Casey Mize, Alex Lange, Wenceel Perez, Dillon Dingler, Riley Greene, etc... Every one of these guys (not just the hitters either, pitchers too) have to prove that they can stick in MLB (I put Dingler in there because I think he will get his chances this year); and not just stick, but thrive to an adequate or even better level. I even put Greene in there because I expect MUCH more from him than what I've been seeing this year... You can yap all you want about "Malloy's 2 games"... I don't give a crap about that. The only thing I care about is can he cut it, or not? And that's yet to be determined. But he proved himself a good hitter in the minors, so I am ALLOWED to hold onto that, until he proves otherwise in MLB. What I am concerned about is whether these guys can hit in MLB and all prospects are unproven. To expand on my my original comment. It appears that Harris is able to identify pitchers that other teams don't value so much and the Tigers were able get useful MLB production out of them. There is no such evidence with hitters so far. It's great that the Tigers have some good hitting prospects on the horizon, but I don't think listing out their top prospects really addresses my comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 54 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: That is not correct. My standards are not too low. This is the correct way to put it: My standards are "all-encompassing." I love the Miggy Cabreras and JV's and Scherzer's and Skubal's and (hopefully) Riley Greene's as much as the next guy. But I also know that there is no one that can construct an ENTIRE TEAM consisting of all-stars from top to bottom. That's just not realistic. So I embrace the top-level players and hope Harris can construct a team with enough of them to make us a real contender. But I ALSO embrace the bottom 10-15 players on a roster because if they are total crap then a top heavy team won't survive the entire season, won't survive injuries, and has a serious chance of not making the playoffs... because... baseball. So yes... I embrace the 4th OF'ers and the "glue guys" and the middle relievers and others that ALSO are a required part of any real, serious, contender. Why is this such a problem for everyone? Vierling is not the problem. Baez is. Tork is. Etc. So my standards are perfectly fine. I recognize what Vierling, Malloy, Lee and Canha are. And their limitations. Or their correct spot on any contending team. Unless you're telling me that Clark and McGonigle are garbage prospects and therefore my standards are too low...? We need replacement level average players...thus far, none of the prospects that you believe in have risen to that level. That's my problem. Additionally development isn't linear so even if a guy produces in Erie or Toledo, it doesn't mean anything until they are up for 3-4 months...even then we don't know(see Tork). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 Another problem is the guys who have been here two or three years are still question marks or injury prone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 https://x.com/reflog_18/status/1798658594524606930 Clevelands Secert Wind Tunnels? interesting I dont know if I believe it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobrob2004 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 21 hours ago, 4hzglory said: And I think the draft pick was a very large factor against Chapman who had an awful year last year after the first month or so. Spencer Torkelson Riley Greene Casey Mize Alex Faedo Matt Manning These are the last 5 Tigers #1 picks that have made to the Majors. The only one that I wouldn't trade for Chapman is Greene. Take that for what it's worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 2 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: Why is this such a problem for everyone? Vierling is not the problem. Baez is. Tork is. Etc. So my standards are perfectly fine. I recognize what Vierling, Malloy, Lee and Canha are. And their limitations. Or their correct spot on any contending team. Unless you're telling me that Clark and McGonigle are garbage prospects and therefore my standards are too low...? No one said Vierling was a problem. But when your top hitter is a 4th outfielder, you have failed at your job. And prospects are just that: prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 I’m not sure Vierling is just a 4th OF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 23 minutes ago, casimir said: I’m not sure Vierling is just a 4th OF. I agree but is a useful player..just miscast on this team because he is playing every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 9 hours ago, kdog said: I agree but is a useful player..just miscast on this team because he is playing every day. He might be miscast, but he’s been producing. Therefore…… is he really miscast? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 23 minutes ago, casimir said: He might be miscast, but he’s been producing. Therefore…… is he really miscast? so far this season there is no reason not to play him everyday. His platoon split is pretty much a wash: 30pts better OBP against LHP, but 100pt better OPS against RHP (he has hit his HRs off RHP). DRS doesn't give him a lot of love but I think we are pretty certain that over time the numbers will bear out that he is a plus OF, even if he is only an adequate 3B. But on this team that makes him 2nd choice only behind Urshella. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 9 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: so far this season there is no reason not to play him everyday. His platoon split is pretty much a wash: 30pts better OBP against LHP, but 100pt better OPS against RHP (he has hit his HRs off RHP). DRS doesn't give him a lot of love but I think we are pretty certain that over time the numbers will bear out that he is a plus OF, even if he is only an adequate 3B. But on this team that makes him 2nd choice only behind Urshella. I think he’d be fine at third if he played and practiced there everyday. It’s tough to move around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 (edited) Quote "Look at the Nationals," he said. "They're only 2½ games out of the wild card. You've got a lot of teams in the mix -- a lot of teams that remember what happened with the Diamondbacks and the Rangers last year." One club official cited the NL Central as the embodiment of the add-or-subtract quandary that could paralyze a lot of the trade talk in the coming months. The Pittsburgh Pirates, who have been dealers at the deadline in recent years, have a run differential of minus-17, but they are just a half-game back in the race for the NL's third wild-card spot and have the kind of starting pitching -- with Paul Skenes, Mitch Keller and Jared Jones -- that could dominate in a short series in October. "If they upgrade that offense just a little bit, they could be a tough out in the playoffs," one AL exec said. "They aren't typically buyers, but the National League stinks" -- he meant beyond the Philadelphia Phillies, Los Angeles Dodgers and Atlanta Braves -- "and that's going to keep a lot of teams in the middle believing." More contenders mean fewer dealers, of course, and fewer places for teams to find decent hitters. From Buster Olney's article on ESPN..The Tigers are currently 2 games out of the wild card. I would say they should be a soft hold or soft buy. It would be good for fan morale. You aren't going to change the trajectory of your franchise significantly at the trade deadline. Edited June 10 by kdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 On 6/9/2024 at 10:16 AM, 1984Echoes said: That is not correct. My standards are not too low. This is the correct way to put it: My standards are "all-encompassing." I love the Miggy Cabreras and JV's and Scherzer's and Skubal's and (hopefully) Riley Greene's as much as the next guy. But I also know that there is no one that can construct an ENTIRE TEAM consisting of all-stars from top to bottom. That's just not realistic. So I embrace the top-level players and hope Harris can construct a team with enough of them to make us a real contender. But I ALSO embrace the bottom 10-15 players on a roster because if they are total crap then a top heavy team won't survive the entire season, won't survive injuries, and has a serious chance of not making the playoffs... because... baseball. So yes... I embrace the 4th OF'ers and the "glue guys" and the middle relievers and others that ALSO are a required part of any real, serious, contender. Why is this such a problem for everyone? Vierling is not the problem. Baez is. Tork is. Etc. So my standards are perfectly fine. I recognize what Vierling, Malloy, Lee and Canha are. And their limitations. Or their correct spot on any contending team. Unless you're telling me that Clark and McGonigle are garbage prospects and therefore my standards are too low...? What you say here is true, but I don't think it is relevant to the question of Harris's ability to identify to identify hitting talent versus other GMs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 Verling should play every day in centerfield period. His defense is excellent and he hits well in consideration of that. He’s not a fourth outfielder in my opinion. At least not on this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 3 hours ago, Longgone said: I think he’d be fine at third if he played and practiced there everyday. It’s tough to move around. So, maybe they should pick a position for him and not move him around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 This is from a Chicago guy trying to troll the White Sox...however, it does show the mushy middle of MLB teams...you have some elite teams and bad teams...and then the middle: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 That is a great twitter account. One of my favorites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 I have to say that the Tigers rank on that list is a lot higher than the mood of this MB suggests. Lots of doom and gloom around here for a team that nobody should have expected to be much better. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 1 hour ago, oblong said: I have to say that the Tigers rank on that list is a lot higher than the mood of this MB suggests. Lots of doom and gloom around here for a team that nobody should have expected to be much better. maybe because we know the warts and failings that doesnt show up on a stupid chart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 That's baseball. Every team has warts and failings when they are around .500. that's why they are a .500 team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 We need to see what Harris wants to do. Does he want to give this team a small jolt in the arm to see if they can do anything in the wild card race? Guessing it would be a low level prospect to get a little bit of power. Selling off players for mid level prospects would be a pr disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 Jack Flaherty will be the litmus test at the deadline for me. Should be very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 Trade for Paredes, Candelario, and Castro. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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