2024 DETROIT TIGERS REGULAR SEASON THREAD

[IdahoBert]

2 minutes ago, Toddwert said:

I mean how many times are they going to have to move the fences in?

Until it’s a normal ballpark. 

[Tiger337]

5 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

I thought I had seen somewhere that Keith had voiced his concerns/displeasure with Comerica’s dimensions? If so, that’s a big red flag for me.  It seems to have messed with Nick C while he was here.

He might have said that it messed him up, but he has not been much different since he left Detroit.

OPS+ Detroit 110

OPS+ elsewhere 114

He is still very up and down.  

[Toddwert]

23 minutes ago, IdahoBert said:

Until it’s a normal ballpark. 

I would argue it has been before the last move

[TigerNation]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

I believe he has about $40 million on option years from 2030-2032 and a chance for a big free agency payoff after that.  He'll need to perform at a high level to get all that.  Of course, the 28 million guaranteed will set him up for life and maybe that is good enough him.  However, I tend to believe that most professional athletes have a competitive drive to be the best at what they do indepedent of money.  Otherwise, they wouldn't have made it so far.    

My post was tongue-in-cheek.

[TigerNation]

1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

I thought I had seen somewhere that Keith had voiced his concerns/displeasure with Comerica’s dimensions? If so, that’s a big red flag for me.  It seems to have messed with Nick C while he was here.

Only thing I can remember was him talking about a well hit ball to RCF that was caught and he commented in AAA that's a HR. I didn't really read it as a complaint, more so just acknowledging the difference in difficulty between AAA and the majors.

[chasfh]

36 minutes ago, TigerNation said:

My post was tongue-in-cheek.

FWIW, I thought you were serious when you posted that, too.

Not saying this is you, but there are a lot of guys, particularly those of a certain age, or at least those a few generations removed from current players’ ages, who insist that for players it’s all about the money (or the “Benjamins”, as the kids of the 1990s would say), and once players make the money they don’t care about winning or even about playing anymore, so they laze about and phone it in because who cares anymore—as if their teammates, managers, coaches, and the front office wouldn’t notice, or wouldn’t care even if they did notice. But as Tiger337 basically says, players are hard-wired to be ultra-competitive, or else they would have crapped out of baseball a long time before they got to the majors, because it’s goddamn hard to slog through the years making all the incremental improvements you need to get over that hump.

I’m sure there are more than a few players who don’t love love love baseball and see the game as merely their job, which is a different kettle. I’ve always thought Derek Jeter might be that guy. But again, to get to the pinnacle of the major leagues, you have to have a great deal of pride and professionalism to thrive enough to get good and paid in the first place.

Because there are no 100% absolutes even in this, if I had to pick one guy I think actually does phone it in because he’s got his money and he doesn’t like baseball, it would be Anthony Rendon, who basically said as much this spring, and he has gotten raked but good for that very thing. Lucky for him he tore a hamstring in April so he can keep checking big bank while sitting on his fattening ass popping bonbons in his mouth, or so I would assume … 😁

[Hongbit]

It would be foolish for anyone to expect meaningful change to happen quickly but we are a year and a half in there are no returns.   Nothing of his philosophy is apparent on this organization. Nothing of what he wanted this organization to develop has occurred.  The only snippet that has been apparent is his overzealous retaining of Colt Keith prior to playing a major league game.

I’m not bailing on the guy yet. There’s still plenty of time for all 3 of his core tenants to happen but early returns are much like his teams plate discipline.  

[buddha]

50 minutes ago, chasfh said:

FWIW, I thought you were serious when you posted that, too.

Not saying this is you, but there are a lot of guys, particularly those of a certain age, or at least those a few generations removed from current players’ ages, who insist that for players it’s all about the money (or the “Benjamins”, as the kids of the 1990s would say), and once players make the money they don’t care about winning or even about playing anymore, so they laze about and phone it in because who cares anymore—as if their teammates, managers, coaches, and the front office wouldn’t notice, or wouldn’t care even if they did notice. But as Tiger337 basically says, players are hard-wired to be ultra-competitive, or else they would have crapped out of baseball a long time before they got to the majors, because it’s goddamn hard to slog through the years making all the incremental improvements you need to get over that hump.

I’m sure there are more than a few players who don’t love love love baseball and see the game as merely their job, which is a different kettle. I’ve always thought Derek Jeter might be that guy. But again, to get to the pinnacle of the major leagues, you have to have a great deal of pride and professionalism to thrive enough to get good and paid in the first place.

Because there are no 100% absolutes even in this, if I had to pick one guy I think actually does phone it in because he’s got his money and he doesn’t like baseball, it would be Anthony Rendon, who basically said as much this spring, and he has gotten raked but good for that very thing. Lucky for him he tore a hamstring in April so he can keep checking big bank while sitting on his fattening ass popping bonbons in his mouth, or so I would assume … 😁

counterpoint: yoan moncada and eloy jimenez.  lol.

[buddha]

10 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

It would be foolish for anyone to expect meaningful change to happen quickly but we are a year and a half in there are no returns.   Nothing of his philosophy is apparent on this organization. Nothing of what he wanted this organization to develop has occurred.  The only snippet that has been apparent is his overzealous retaining of Colt Keith prior to playing a major league game.

I’m not bailing on the guy yet. There’s still plenty of time for all 3 of his core tenants to happen but early returns are much like his teams plate discipline.  

he has 4 years to show something.

like yzerman (and now langdon), he inherited a wasteland: the worst team with one of the worst farm systems left to him by his predecessor.

check in in another year and a half and see where mcgonigle and clark are.  see what he got for flaherty.  see if Lee is in the majors or knocking on the door.

[chasfh]

It’s hard to wait a few more years after having seven years of our life completely wasted. But wait we must. No one is getting fired a year and a half after the biggest change in this organization in at least two decades. Harris—and Hinch, like it or not—were brought in to change this team for the long term. If it were all about winning now and damn the costs, we’d be stealing Dombrowski back from the Phillies.

So strap yourself in and enjoy the ride. If it doesn’t get better later, you can call me a liar.

[Hongbit]

It’s not even about the actual W and L results.  I was never expecting it to get better quick but we are almost halfway in and zero percent of his culture change is apparent.  

I do agree the Flaherty trade and any other deadline deals will be big indicators.  

[kdog]

7 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

It’s not even about the actual W and L results.  I was never expecting it to get better quick but we are almost halfway in and zero percent of his culture change is apparent.  

I do agree the Flaherty trade and any other deadline deals will be big indicators.  

In baseball, culture=talent...they have very little. In football and maybe hockey, you have an emotional component, so culture could apply to if the players 'buy in.'

Edited June 22 by kdog

[Toddwert]

36 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

It’s not even about the actual W and L results.  I was never expecting it to get better quick but we are almost halfway in and zero percent of his culture change is apparent.  

I do agree the Flaherty trade and any other deadline deals will be big indicators.  

the culture seemed better last season  I dont know if it was Miggy keeping things loose or what

[Hongbit]

I get that culture is word that is often tossed around in business and organizational development without a clear definition.  Harris was very clear in what kind of culture he wanted.   His quotes form his intro presser: 

 

When I think of Detroit, I think of trying to create an environment that inspires players to want to get better and to put in all the work that they can to get better,” Harris said at his introductory press conference Tuesday at Comerica Park. “It also means creating an environment around those players -- support staff, technology, coaching, development -- environments that inspire these players to get better. So when I think of the Tigers of the next few years, I think of free agents who may look to go to various places across our great game. When they think of Detroit, I want them to think of an environment where they are confident they can come and get better, they can perform at a higher level, they can lengthen their careers, they know they are going to be surrounded by people in this organization that are going to get the absolute most out of them.”

 

I’ve been very lucky to work with Theo Epstein, Jed Hoyer, Farhan Zaidi and many others,” Harris said. “One of the things they taught me very clearly is, if you’re going to do the same thing as every other organization, you’re probably not going to do it as well as they are, and you’re probably going to be chasing them the whole time. They taught me that it’s important to differentiate yourself and your operation. 

“It’s probably not that strategic to share what I think we can and should do here to differentiate ourselves. But if you look back at our track records in San Francisco and Chicago, that spirit of innovation and finding ways to differentiate yourself in creating that culture of development is something that carried us, and it’s something that is one of the reasons why we had so much success in those places.” 

 

 

[gehringer_2]

42 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

I get that culture is word that is often tossed around in business and organizational development without a clear definition.  Harris was very clear in what kind of culture he wanted.   His quotes form his intro presser: 

 

 

When I think of Detroit, I think of trying to create an environment that inspires players to want to get better and to put in all the work that they can to get better,” Harris said at his introductory press conference Tuesday at Comerica Park. “It also means creating an environment around those players -- support staff, technology, coaching, development -- environments that inspire these players to get better. So when I think of the Tigers of the next few years, I think of free agents who may look to go to various places across our great game. When they think of Detroit, I want them to think of an environment where they are confident they can come and get better, they can perform at a higher level, they can lengthen their careers, they know they are going to be surrounded by people in this organization that are going to get the absolute most out of them.”

 

 

I’ve been very lucky to work with Theo Epstein, Jed Hoyer, Farhan Zaidi and many others,” Harris said. “One of the things they taught me very clearly is, if you’re going to do the same thing as every other organization, you’re probably not going to do it as well as they are, and you’re probably going to be chasing them the whole time. They taught me that it’s important to differentiate yourself and your operation. 

“It’s probably not that strategic to share what I think we can and should do here to differentiate ourselves. But if you look back at our track records in San Francisco and Chicago, that spirit of innovation and finding ways to differentiate yourself in creating that culture of development is something that carried us, and it’s something that is one of the reasons why we had so much success in those places.” 

 

 

I'd suggest it's time they do some more innovating around how to prep hitters to face big league pitching.

[RandyMarsh]

This team just lacks major league caliber players, particularly on offense. I get frustrated with their approach and how they just seem too pass up too many good pitches but the fact is most of this lineup quite frankly shouldn't be in the major leagues at this point.

You look at today's lineup for example and it featured only 2 guys who were blue chip prospects and 1 of them in Keith looks to not be ready for major league pitching. The rest were guys like Perez, Kriedler, Malloy and Rogers who were all viewed as fringe major leaguers at best and washed up vets that likely wouldn't be in any teams every day lineup in Urshela and Cahna. 

Granted I still would expect more than 6 runs for a week's worth of baseball like they put up this week but with this little talent you're never gonna produce consistent results. 

With Carpenter being injured, Tork turning into a pumpkin and Keith not hitting like we hoped any preseason hopes we had for this team to be competitive have gone out the window. If those 3 were performing like we hoped going into this season the offense would be looking a lot better. 

Edited June 22 by RandyMarsh

[casimir]

14 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

This team just lacks major league caliber players, particularly on offense. I get frustrated with their approach and how they just seem too pass up too many good pitches but the fact is most of this lineup quite frankly shouldn't be in the major leagues at this point.

You look at today's lineup for example and it featured only 2 guys who were blue chip prospects and 1 of them in Keith looks to not be ready for major league pitching. The rest were guys like Perez, Kriedler, Malloy and Rogers who were all viewed as fringe major leaguers at best and washed up vets that likely wouldn't be in any teams every day lineup in Urshela and Cahna. 

Granted I still would expect more than 6 runs for a week's worth of baseball like they put up this week but with this little talent you're never gonna produce consistent results. 

With Carpenter being injured, Tork turning into a pumpkin and Keith not hitting like we hoped any preseason hopes we had for this team to be competitive have gone out the window. If those 3 were performing like we hoped going into this season the offense would be looking a lot better. 

I’d say any kind of offensive contribution out of Baez would be a factor, too.

I don’t know if Carpenter means that much to the offense or if his absence was the absolute last straw.  I’d venture to say if Greene were dinged up instead of Carpenter, this team would be in a similar malaise.

[SeattleMike]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

I’d say any kind of offensive contribution out of Baez would be a factor, too.

I don’t know if Carpenter means that much to the offense or if his absence was the absolute last straw.  I’d venture to say if Greene were dinged up instead of Carpenter, this team would be in a similar malaise.

The Tigers need both Greene and Carpenter in the lineup on a consistent basis. Neither hits lefties well at this point though, which further underscores how devastating Tork’s failures have been. Having clarity on Torkekson should be liberating at this point. Finding offensive production at 1B is not difficult. I’m warming to the idea of moving Keith there and giving Jung some run at 2B, starting sooner rather than later. 

[chasfh]

I’m not sure what kind of clarity people are looking for on Tork, but if the thought is him getting ****-canned, it ain’t happening. Even if he stays in Toledo and slashes .200/.250/.300 for the rest of the season, he’s coming back in the spring at the very least. It would be a shocker of historic proportions for him—a 1/1 who has already had a modicum of success in the majors—to be done done at 24. I would expect to see him on the field at Comerica agin, maybe even this year after a meh performance in AAA, but almost certainly next year coming north, albeit with everybody’s fingers crossed.

Here’s a wild idea: maybe we see Tork in a change-of-scenery trade this winter where we take someone else’s failed project in exchange for him. Just spitballing a name without thinking too deeply about it, maybe Henry Davis of the Pirates. We could probably use a catcher, too, and the Pirates have no future at 1B at the moment.

[Toddwert]

3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I’m not sure what kind of clarity people are looking for on Tork, but if the thought is him getting ****-canned, it ain’t happening. Even if he stays in Toledo and slashes .200/.250/.300 for the rest of the season, he’s coming back in the spring at the very least. It would be a shocker of historic proportions for him—a 1/1 who has already had a modicum of success in the majors—to be done done at 24. I would expect to see him on the field at Comerica agin, maybe even this year after a meh performance in AAA, but almost certainly next year coming north, albeit with everybody’s fingers crossed.

Here’s a wild idea: maybe we see Tork in a change-of-scenery trade this winter where we take someone else’s failed project in exchange for him. Just spitballing a name without thinking too deeply about it, maybe Henry Davis of the Pirates. We could probably use a catcher, too, and the Pirates have no future at 1B at the moment.

yeah I agree its a shot at spring training but I dont think they hold the position for him like they have been

[Tiger337]

9 hours ago, TigerNation said:

My post was tongue-in-cheek.

OK, I should have known based on your past posts.  

[SeattleMike]

14 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I’m not sure what kind of clarity people are looking for on Tork, but if the thought is him getting ****-canned, it ain’t happening. Even if he stays in Toledo and slashes .200/.250/.300 for the rest of the season, he’s coming back in the spring at the very least. It would be a shocker of historic proportions for him—a 1/1 who has already had a modicum of success in the majors—to be done done at 24. I would expect to see him on the field at Comerica agin, maybe even this year after a meh performance in AAA, but almost certainly next year coming north, albeit with everybody’s fingers crossed.

Here’s a wild idea: maybe we see Tork in a change-of-scenery trade this winter where we take someone else’s failed project in exchange for him. Just spitballing a name without thinking too deeply about it, maybe Henry Davis of the Pirates. We could probably use a catcher, too, and the Pirates have no future at 1B at the moment.

There is no reason to dump him at this point. But counting on him going forward would be Avila-esque. 

[Tiger337]

7 hours ago, Hongbit said:

It would be foolish for anyone to expect meaningful change to happen quickly but we are a year and a half in there are no returns.   Nothing of his philosophy is apparent on this organization. Nothing of what he wanted this organization to develop has occurred.  The only snippet that has been apparent is his overzealous retaining of Colt Keith prior to playing a major league game.

I’m not bailing on the guy yet. There’s still plenty of time for all 3 of his core tenants to happen but early returns are much like his teams plate discipline.  

In his first year, he was getting credit a lot of development of prospects.  When it was pointed out that most of those players were acquired by Avila, the reponse was that they would not have developed under Avila and that player development was a strength of the Harris administration.  There seems to be not as much progression this year.  

Edited June 23 by Tiger337

[gehringer_2]

18 minutes ago, SeattleMike said:

There is no reason to dump him at this point. But counting on him going forward would be Avila-esque. 

struck 2 balls >100 mph tonight. One was launched too high and was caught. There is still a nice swing in there trying to get out. 

[chasfh]

15 minutes ago, SeattleMike said:

There is no reason to dump him at this point. But counting on him going forward would be Avila-esque. 

I think it’s less a matter of counting on Tork than it is giving him every chance to succeed. He’s proven he’s got awesome hitting talent in there somewhere and the Tigers are doing everything they can to unlock it. The most horrifying thing would be we release him after this year, he catches on with someone who unlocks him, and he comes back to beat us over and over.

I think if he continually shows nothing by the middle of next year, then he’s out, but not before then.