2024 DETROIT TIGERS REGULAR SEASON THREAD

[Edman85]

I listened and thought it was a good interview, with Harris repeating a lot of what we've already heard him say. I also predict one or two lines from it will be screenshotted, put on twitter and be overreacted to by the "win now" crowd, if it hasn't already.

[Tigermojo]

1 minute ago, Edman85 said:

I listened and thought it was a good interview, with Harris repeating a lot of what we've already heard him say. I also predict one or two lines from it will be screenshotted, put on twitter and be overreacted to by the "win now" crowd, if it hasn't already.

Harris definitely says all the right things. I want to see what he does at the deadline and the offseason. I look forward to complaining about those decisions for the next several years.

[Edman85]

Also, did anybody catch the dig at Shep at the end?

[Tigermojo]

48 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Also, did anybody catch the dig at Shep at the end?

I missed it. What did he say?

[casimir]

14 hours ago, Edman85 said:

Is it?

The difference between a made play in the middle infield is a single and an out. In the outfield, it's an extra base hit or an out.

Or, perhaps, limiting a gapper to a single, or keeping a runner from taking an extra base.  I'm kind of surprised Harris (or Dickerson or Benetti) didn't bring that up.

[casimir]

10 hours ago, Tigermojo said:

I missed it. What did he say?

"Sometimes broadcasts can become echo chambers of conventional baseball wisdom .... I really appreciate how you two try to inject different angles and theories into the game" is probably what was the dig.  Its shortly after the 40 minute mark.  

Edit to add:  I don't remember if Shepard was guilty of echo chambering or not.  I don't remember of he avoided other lines of thought.  I know Gibson has been good about bringing up choices and what ifs as moments in a game approach.  So, I guess I don't know if that was a dig at anyone in particular or in general, or heck, maybe it was just nothing more than a compliment with no back handed malice intended for anyone?  Is it allowable to do that in society anymore?

Edited June 26 by casimir

[alex]

All IMHO.

A good interview. SHarris is passionate about his job. He is intelligent. I never doubted these things. We all learn/remember as we go along in any profession.

Three things for me I am concerned with:

1) is he and this FO , are they, able to 'negotiate' trades. AA was not (but some strength in other areas). DD was/is. Heck, he even put together 3 team deals (he may be less adapt in another area). There is a knack for this process. I remember during his first off season during his interview at the Winter Meetings on MLB Network, Harris said 'something' to the effect that he 'was working on 10 trades.' He of course was half joking and did chuckle while saying that - but I think he also serious and further realized that they just do not happen (shortly after he acquired JHM). He admitted that it was very hard to make trades.

2) The 'control the zone approach'. Again, I do agree here. Some will be better than others at this. I feel most any player should take a good course on this so to speak. Yet, again it is not for each player all the time. This team has taken to many first pitch middle-middle FBs. Then we are in the hole. We have seen this. This total approach is not for every player and maybe we will see an adjustment. I also feel if you are drafting, trading and/or signing FAs based only on this - you will be tying your hands (so to speak) and perhaps missing out on a quality player that can help.

3) I get the 'develop a core' idea. Maybe he wants 'his' guys (some ego here if that is the case) - but if an opportunity presents itself, example this off seasons FAs, and there is a player that might help for a period of time (whether 1 to multi years) and we have a chance to sign said player, they need to look at him.

As I have mentioned before, the 'right'  FAs/Trades do not just wait until a team has a young core in place. They just do not magically appear and come to you. If he/the FO feels there is a chance to acquire talent at a position of need I would be hopeful they try to act on it. This is where projection takes place. With said I am not big on multi year deals (ex 3+ years), especially for SPs.  I like Harris' SP approach and feel more GMs/CEOs are changing their minds about this. P is sooo volatile and injuries often a part of this. I think the shorter AAV is becoming more the way to go.

There is a lot of just plain old luck involved with this. Yet, opportunity favors the prepared.

Simply - there is a lot to this. We here know this. Yet, we are fans. SHarris said he also is a fan. He says he has to separate that part of himself and be professional - I agree and commend. However, we are on multiple years of 'looking to be relevant' again. He is not.

IMHO, we have to continue to be patient and he/the FO have to be opportunistic, learn the 'art of negotiating' and not be overly restrictive in their own beliefs (this helps one grow).

Go Tigs !

Edited June 26 by alex

[casimir]

9 minutes ago, alex said:

3) I get the 'develop a core' idea. Maybe he wants 'his' guys (some ego here if that is the case) - but if an opportunity presents itself, example this off seasons FAs, and there is a player that might help for a period of time (whether 1 to multi years) and we have a chance to sign said player, they need to look at him.

I think Canha is an example of this.  He has unfortunately been pressed higher into the lineup than was probably the design.  But Harris saw value in the remaining season of his contract (team option I think) and traded for him to pick up the option rather than risk him on the free agent market.

[alex]

27 minutes ago, casimir said:

I think Canha is an example of this.  He has unfortunately been pressed higher into the lineup than was probably the design.  But Harris saw value in the remaining season of his contract (team option I think) and traded for him to pick up the option rather than risk him on the free agent market.

I agree.

I also should mention I do like the re-direction/upgrades in: Scouting, analytics, fitness and nutrition awareness, to identify 'rest' and when it may be needed, taking a look at the psychology of it all, the facility upgrades and international efforts and more. It is a lot of work, fiscals and efforts by many to update and upgrade and entire organization.

Hopefully they remain open to keeping in touch with their fans as well. Remember, most fans are casual and go with the flow. Many of us here are long time and diehards. A small percentage - but an important one. Yet, may we not forget to be casual at times with it. Just enjoy the game (s). It is entertainment, lest not forget 😉

 

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, alex said:

The 'control the zone approach'. Again, I do agree here. Some will be better than others at this. I feel most any player should take a good course on this so to speak. Yet, again it is not for each player all the time. This team has taken to many first pitch middle-middle FBs. Then we are in the hole. We have seen this. This total approach is not for every player and maybe we will see an adjustment. I also feel if you are drafting, trading and/or signing FAs based only on this - you will be tying your hands (so to speak) and perhaps missing out on a quality player that can help.

this is my biggest worry. I think the objective for every batter in every AB should be very simple - don't make an out. Let the batter decide within his skill set what he can best do - can he hit a pitch out of the zone to get on, can he walk, can he drive the ball out of the park, can he slap it the other way? To me worrying about pitch location as a primary concern misses that what matters is what a guy can actually hit enough not to make an out - that area might not be the called zone for that batter. What matters for batters wrt strike zone is how much of it he can *defend*. Now maybe they are moving their idea in that direction or maybe not, but when Hinch first started espousing the control the zone mantra it was mostly directed at not swinging out of the zone, and maybe it was because when he arrived the tigers did have too many hackers, but it's just as important or more important that guys learn to defend (hit or foul off) pitches in the whole zone, and I never hear anything about any Tiger efforts in this direction and it is absolutely key. I hope everyone saw when they posted Harpers Red Hot Zone and it was 2/3 of entire K zone. That's how you get to be good hitter, by making it hard for a pitcher to get anything by you in the zone, not by being very selective *in* the zone which is the way the Tigers tend to talk about it.

Edited June 26 by gehringer_2

[kdog]

Quote

"One of the differences between me and fans is I’m really emotional when I watch the Tigers play, but I actively have to divorce emotions from decision-making," Harris said. "I have to let those emotions energize me and motivate me without impacting my decision making. I have to push the organization forward in a healthy, constructive way. That means building it the right way. That doesn’t mean chasing shortcuts."

"We changed the profiles we were chasing in the draft last year to adapt to the environment that we are facing every night," Harris said. "Playing in this park (Comerica) and in this division, you should expect to play a lot of close games. How do you win close games? With dependable pitching and really good outfield defense. Those have been two priorities for us."

On the topic of outfield defense, Harris he considers it "leverage for our pitching."

"If we can take a gapper and turn it into an out consistently across six months, the run value advantage of that is huge," he said. "Not only in the sense that we are going to allow fewer runs, it's fewer stress pitches for our pitchers, we’re going to get off the field quicker, and we are going to create the big run value swings that lead to wins. It’s going to be a big part of how we build this team moving forward."

https://www.audacy.com/971theticket/sports/detroit-tigers/scott-harris-doubles-down-on-young-hitters-shortcuts-dont-end-droughts

 

I agree--I'm emotional with my reactions to bad baseball..and I have no regrets lol.

Edited June 26 by kdog

[gehringer_2]

I'm curious about where they are going to go in the OF. I think Meadows is coming back - probably after the ASB, then something has to happen to clear some space. When they replaced Meadows with Perez, one possibility was that Wenceel would be a place holder and when Meadows was ready he'd go back down, but Wenceel seems to be on a real upward path, improving each time he levels up, so quite possibly he is still doing fine when they want to bring Meadows back. Once Carpenter is off the DL that's going to make a very crowded OF even with guys cycling through DH.

[LongLiveMaroth]

Just now, gehringer_2 said:

I'm curious about where they are going to go in the OF. I think Meadows is coming back - probably after the ASB, then something has to happen to clear some space. When they replaced Meadows with Perez, one possibility was that Wenceel would be a place holder and when Meadows was ready he'd go back down, but Wenceel seems to be on a real upward path, improving each time he levels up, so quite possibly he is still doing fine when they want to bring Meadows back. Once Carpenter is off the DL that's going to make a very crowded OF even with guys cycling through DH.

That is a good question because Malloy is still here as well (not doing the best but for right now he is here) Canha is probably moved to 1B full time. Baddoo is the obvious candidate to go down but even with that it's a pretty full once Carp gets back. If Malloy doesn't turn it around he's the obvious candidate to send back down.

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said:

That is a good question because Malloy is still here as well (not doing the best but for right now he is here) Canha is probably moved to 1B full time. Baddoo is the obvious candidate to go down but even with that it's a pretty full once Carp gets back. If Malloy doesn't turn it around he's the obvious candidate to send back down.

really don't get why Baddoo is still here. I figure Malloy gets 100-150PA to show or not.

[Tenacious D]

47 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I'm curious about where they are going to go in the OF. I think Meadows is coming back - probably after the ASB, then something has to happen to clear some space. When they replaced Meadows with Perez, one possibility was that Wenceel would be a place holder and when Meadows was ready he'd go back down, but Wenceel seems to be on a real upward path, improving each time he levels up, so quite possibly he is still doing fine when they want to bring Meadows back. Once Carpenter is off the DL that's going to make a very crowded OF even with guys cycling through DH.

Until Meadows can demonstrate he can hit a breaking ball, he might want to start looking for a longer term lease in Toledo.  I don’t think they should move him prematurely.  Look how that worked out for Maton last year.  

[RatkoVarda]

not sure how often a pitcher admits that run support affects him

 

[Tenacious D]

13 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

really don't get why Baddoo is still here. I figure Malloy gets 100-150PA to show or not.

Baddoo is filling a spot—they don’t have a better or viable replacement right now.  Maybe Vilade or Madris?

[oblong]

Skubal gives me the JV and Max hard ass vibes.... they can't trade this guy. 

 

[Tiger337]

Skubal is fantastic.  The only question is his durability.  He has an extensive injury historyand still hasn't been good for a full season yet.  I am however not interested in seeing him traded.  It always depends on who they can get in return, but trading established players for prospects at the deadline seems to backfire more often than it works.  

[SoCalTiger]

16 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Skubal is fantastic.  The only question is his durability.  He has an extensive injury historyand still hasn't been good for a full season yet.  I am however not interested in seeing him traded.  It always depends on who they can get in return, but trading established players for prospects at the deadline seems to backfire more often than it works.  

I think a potential Skubull trade would net more in the off season. I doubt we sign him. I think big big pitchers contracts are off limits in Harris thinking and agree. 

[SoCalTiger]

As for the Harris podcast the question not answered for me is “ Why can’t we provide playing time for young players and still add more proven talent on short term contracts “. Why are the two mutually exclusive?

[gehringer_2]

3 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Until Meadows can demonstrate he can hit a breaking ball, he might want to start looking for a longer term lease in Toledo.  I don’t think they should move him prematurely.  Look how that worked out for Maton last year.  

Hit a curve and change for two of his hits last night. No sliders though. Steps....

[chasfh]

22 hours ago, Edman85 said:

Is it?

The difference between a made play in the middle infield is a single and an out. In the outfield, it's an extra base hit or an out.

It is.

[chasfh]

19 hours ago, Edman85 said:

Also, did anybody catch the dig at Shep at the end?

I absolutely did, and I’m thrilled the TV broadcast is no longer an echo chamber of conventional baseball thinking.

[chasfh]

5 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

I'm curious about where they are going to go in the OF. I think Meadows is coming back - probably after the ASB, then something has to happen to clear some space. When they replaced Meadows with Perez, one possibility was that Wenceel would be a place holder and when Meadows was ready he'd go back down, but Wenceel seems to be on a real upward path, improving each time he levels up, so quite possibly he is still doing fine when they want to bring Meadows back. Once Carpenter is off the DL that's going to make a very crowded OF even with guys cycling through DH.

I might be the only one here who thinks Wenceel is just passing through, versus being a cog on the next playoff team. His offensive numbers have a little BABIP helium in them, and he has no position to play here with a glove like his. Beyond this, his Savant card is awash in blue. I just don’t think he has much of a chance to be more than Mr. Right Now.