1984Echoes Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 52 minutes ago, casimir said: 1) Trei Cruz? Come on... 2) Urshela, Canha, probably McKinstry out. Jung, Torkelson, .... Vilade in? Is that really enough to be viable offensively to go with the above? 1) I said multiple times with Trei that he's not ready yet, most likely AAA next year. I also said multiple times he's a utility guy at this point. It's not like I'm talking him up as the "next great thing" or anything. But he gets his shot. Even if no one wants to give him one. So yes, I think he should get a shot... Trei Cruz. 2) It's time to find out. From a talent perspective, yes, I think there is enough there. From a developmental perspective: Do we have the right hitting coaches? Is our system hitting approach a help for these kids? Or a hindrance? Isn't it time to find out? And they ALL have to get "blooded" in MLB at some point to find out if they can adjust to the highest competition in the world. And either sink... or swim. The timing is absolutely perfect, IMO, for RIGHT NOW (meaning both 2024 and 2025 in my description...). One more point: and Lee mentioned it above: 16 hours ago, Tiger337 said: They can still evaluate young players while plugging in some short-term veterans via free agency or trade... I actually agree with this. Let's call it: Andy Ibanez. He's 31 already. But has proven himself to be a steady, positive contributor for this team. Both at the bat as well as in the field. Let's add another: Gio Urshela. 32 this year and mostly a starter at 3B and a little at 1B. I would NOT be opposed to re-signing Urshela. Here's the thing though: No PROMISES could be made. So whether it's Urshela or Ibanez or someone similar: Jung could be the starter at 3B and Tork at 1B. By the END of the season, Urshela could have quite a LOT of playing time as a 2/3-game starter per week at 3B (Jung at DH), coming in late innings as a PH'er/ defensive replacement, Jung or Tork could falter and be sent back to AAA and Urshela would pick up the starting spot at either position as long as the remediation of one or the other is happening... But... no PROMISES. If Urshela is willing to come back in 2025 with no promises except that the team will find a way to get him whatever playing time they can muster... than absolutely, I would agree with that 100%. As long as our rotation is not yet set: I'm all for getting Flaherty back. Or someone (veteran) just as good... although I can't think of anyone I'd want back more next year than Flaherty. Flaherty as a vet at/near the top of the rotation; and we still have Maeda as a 4/5 starter at the back end next year. As for catcher, I would look for a guy who will reside in AAA, but has some kind of MLB experience that he can be called up in case of injury or other. Maybe even a lot of MLB but is 30-ish and iffy but would at least be reliable defensively. For catcher, IMO, it's defense first and any offense is just gravy. I don't think you could sign a Carson Kelly on that basis... I don't have a name to pop in here... SS? That's a ****ing problem. Harris needs to figure something out. AAAA guy worth a shot, or a blocked prospect, trade for Bo Bichette? (down year but the bet is he'd revert to prior years' excellence... and CI would just have to be willing to EAT the cost of the remaining Baez contract... just a thought), or whatever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 I like the idea of trading for Bichette, if the Jays are serious about moving his contract. Dude is only 26. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 4 Author Share Posted July 4 They're not giving up on Tork this season, or this winter. He is definitely breaking north with the team next March. I think the org is going to cut bait with Baez within a few days following the World Series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 I think I saw that on Trade Rumors somewhere... Yes, I would definitely be down with a trade for Bichette. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 (edited) 5 minutes ago, chasfh said: They're not giving up on Tork this season, or this winter. He is definitely breaking north with the team next March. I think the org is going to cut bait with Baez within a few days following the World Series. I wish I could be more optimistic about what Tork is doing at Toledo. It’s looking like it’s going to be a slow process at best. /…sigh…/ OTOH, Parker continues to rake, which is nice to see. Edited July 4 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 4 Author Share Posted July 4 20 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I wish I could be more optimistic about what Tork is doing at Toledo. It’s looking like it’s going to be a slow process at best. /…sigh…/ OTOH, Parker continues to rake, which is nice to see. I could be wrong about him breaking north with the Tigers next year, but if I am, it's going to be because he stays in Toledo, not because we give him the gate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 Book it, Torkelson will be the starting 1st baseman at the beginning of next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 (edited) 6 minutes ago, tiger2022 said: Book it, Torkelson will be the starting 1st baseman at the beginning of next season. What evidence exists that that would be warranted at this point? Edited July 4 by 1776 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 I think Bichette will be free agent soon..after 2025 ? So thats a no in my book to give up prospects for one year and pay him and Baez so shortstop will be like 45 million...that's a s**t ton of pizzas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 1 hour ago, 1776 said: What evidence exists that that would be warranted at this point? What other options do they have? They want him to succeed, he's only 24, and they are going to suck again next year so might as well give him the first 3 or 4 months next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 10 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said: I think Bichette will be free agent soon..after 2025 ? So thats a no in my book to give up prospects for one year and pay him and Baez so shortstop will be like 45 million...that's a s**t ton of pizzas. I think the rumor was Toronto wanted to get rid of the contract, maybe even at this trade deadline. So the cost might be less in prospects than what one would think if they're trying to dump a contract or open up a space for someone else... And if he claims the position, meaning he's back to being a 4-ish WAR SS... Then eat the cost of Baez's contract, that's a no-brainer decision... And offer a 3-year extension to Bichette: FA at 29 (or is that 30?). Even if he declines, like I said, I think the prospect cost might be less than one would expect. Hell, offer him 5 years and good money... This is an easy no-brainer... for me. I don't know about Bichette... and... YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 3 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: 1) I said multiple times with Trei that he's not ready yet, most likely AAA next year. I also said multiple times he's a utility guy at this point. It's not like I'm talking him up as the "next great thing" or anything. But he gets his shot. Even if no one wants to give him one. So yes, I think he should get a shot... Trei Cruz. 2) It's time to find out. From a talent perspective, yes, I think there is enough there. From a developmental perspective: Do we have the right hitting coaches? Is our system hitting approach a help for these kids? Or a hindrance? Isn't it time to find out? And they ALL have to get "blooded" in MLB at some point to find out if they can adjust to the highest competition in the world. And either sink... or swim. The timing is absolutely perfect, IMO, for RIGHT NOW (meaning both 2024 and 2025 in my description...). One more point: and Lee mentioned it above: I actually agree with this. Let's call it: Andy Ibanez. He's 31 already. But has proven himself to be a steady, positive contributor for this team. Both at the bat as well as in the field. Let's add another: Gio Urshela. 32 this year and mostly a starter at 3B and a little at 1B. I would NOT be opposed to re-signing Urshela. Here's the thing though: No PROMISES could be made. So whether it's Urshela or Ibanez or someone similar: Jung could be the starter at 3B and Tork at 1B. By the END of the season, Urshela could have quite a LOT of playing time as a 2/3-game starter per week at 3B (Jung at DH), coming in late innings as a PH'er/ defensive replacement, Jung or Tork could falter and be sent back to AAA and Urshela would pick up the starting spot at either position as long as the remediation of one or the other is happening... But... no PROMISES. If Urshela is willing to come back in 2025 with no promises except that the team will find a way to get him whatever playing time they can muster... than absolutely, I would agree with that 100%. As long as our rotation is not yet set: I'm all for getting Flaherty back. Or someone (veteran) just as good... although I can't think of anyone I'd want back more next year than Flaherty. Flaherty as a vet at/near the top of the rotation; and we still have Maeda as a 4/5 starter at the back end next year. As for catcher, I would look for a guy who will reside in AAA, but has some kind of MLB experience that he can be called up in case of injury or other. Maybe even a lot of MLB but is 30-ish and iffy but would at least be reliable defensively. For catcher, IMO, it's defense first and any offense is just gravy. I don't think you could sign a Carson Kelly on that basis... I don't have a name to pop in here... SS? That's a ****ing problem. Harris needs to figure something out. AAAA guy worth a shot, or a blocked prospect, trade for Bo Bichette? (down year but the bet is he'd revert to prior years' excellence... and CI would just have to be willing to EAT the cost of the remaining Baez contract... just a thought), or whatever... I guess I don't understand saying a 25 year old AA player isn't ready for MLB yet and then in the same paragraph saying to give him a shot, but OK. I'd look to make moves on the left side of the IF. Ha Seong Kim has been playing SS exclusively this season, but has played 2B and 3B for San Diego in the past. He's suffering from poor BABIP luck this season, but he has mastery of the strike zone. Acquire him, plug him in on the left side of the IF, hit him at the top of the order. I don't quite know where the Bo Bichette talk is coming from. I understand he's having a poor season. I'd bank on him having a rebound season. I'm sure 29 other clubs would as well. If the Tigers can acquire him for something reasonable, sure, go for it. I don't know what the going rate would be, and I'd imagine he's going to feel free about testing his market when he's available for free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 2 hours ago, chasfh said: I think the org is going to cut bait with Baez within a few days following the World Series. This would be helpful. Sunk cost, eat it, whatever. In my opinion, opening up the roster spot is more valuable than worrying about the contract. Or, how about this? I don't know if there is a pitcher that exists on a similar type of contract that has a similar type of disappointing production. Swap a disappointment for a disappointment, see if Fetter can do something there? I doubt that type of arrangement is possible, but its a fun theory to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 On Tork... I think he'll be in Spring Training camp next year... but after that, I wouldn't put money on anything... And I hear ya' chas on him being sent to Toledo if he can't make the opening day roster, that's probably the most likely outcome... The only thing that's striking me a little bit at the moment (and I don't really know what that means for Tork's future...), but it sure seems like the Org is testing lots of different guys out at 1B. In Detroit, that's been Canha, Urshela (yesterday) and today it's Ibanez. Just an interesting factoid if nothing else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 4 hours ago, Tenacious D said: For me, the positions that I think they should go outside to upgrade are 1B and SS. Realize Baez is under contract, but they’ll have to move on if they want to be a playoff contender in 2025 or 2026. I don’t think they will, though, and will ride Baez until McGonigle is ready. What if he's never ready? He is certainly a strong prospect, but a lot of stuff happens on the way to being an MLB regular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 7 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: The only thing that's striking me a little bit at the moment (and I don't really know what that means for Tork's future...), but it sure seems like the Org is testing lots of different guys out at 1B. In Detroit, that's been Canha, Urshela (yesterday) and today it's Ibanez. Just an interesting factoid if nothing else... Ibanez had quite the stretch early on today, too. While we're at it, Ibanez is coming back next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 7 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: What if he's never ready? Then we might as well embrace the apocolypse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 Whether people like it or not, Tork will be the starting 1st baseman at the beginning of next season. Whether he keeps it or nor, that is another question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 Hey guys. I get this feeling, and I don't know where it comes from, that signing Kenta to 2 years was a big mistake. Gut feeling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 He sucks but they can't do anything about it now. Not like they have 4 or 5 guys ready to step in and be studs in the rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 (edited) On 7/3/2024 at 4:32 PM, Tiger337 said: They can still evaluate young players while plugging in some short-term veterans via free agency or trade. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. They don't have enough legit young players to fill a MLB roster. Plus the guys you can't figure because of their inconsistency. Vierling's monthly OPS have been 705, 925, 563. How do you use/evaluate that? Edited July 4 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 5 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: I think the rumor was Toronto wanted to get rid of the contract, maybe even at this trade deadline. So the cost might be less in prospects than what one would think if they're trying to dump a contract or open up a space for someone else... And if he claims the position, meaning he's back to being a 4-ish WAR SS... Then eat the cost of Baez's contract, that's a no-brainer decision... And offer a 3-year extension to Bichette: FA at 29 (or is that 30?). Even if he declines, like I said, I think the prospect cost might be less than one would expect. Hell, offer him 5 years and good money... This is an easy no-brainer... for me. I don't know about Bichette... and... YMMV. Must be a rumor started by the same guy who said Ohtani was signing in Toronto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 This does not apply to any player in particular, but I found it amusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 On 7/3/2024 at 3:41 PM, 1984Echoes said: Catcher - Jake Rogers and Dillon Dingler 1B - Tork, or someone else: Ibanez, Keith, Malloy, Jung, Bigbie, Vilade. (somethin's gotta stick). 2B - Jung, Keith, Ibanez, Lee has a chance IMO, others as utility backups: Vilade, Cruz, etc. SS - You got me here. Cruz on a wild outside shot (I don't think he's ready for MLB in 2025 opening day... just sayin', as a "tryout" to see where he is or how far away...). 3B - Jung, Ibanez, Vierling, Vilade (utility guy has played everywhere except SS and C at Toledo.) Keith if his shoulder is strong enough. LF - Greene, Malloy, Vierling, Vilade, Perez, Bigbie? CF - Meadows, Greene, Vierling, Perez, Cruz (as a utility guy if he were to make it this far, if not, AAA). RF - Carpenter, Greene, Vierling, Perez, Vilade, Bigbie? DH - anyone. Did I miss anyone? Add him in... "whatchu talkin bout willis?" you're doing that thing again where you overrate all the tigers prospects. put some alcohol in those dr peppers. 🙂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 1 hour ago, buddha said: you're doing that thing again where you overrate all the tigers prospects... Well... It's not so much overrating at this point, It's throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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