2024 DETROIT TIGERS REGULAR SEASON THREAD

[gehringer_2]

37 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

You’d have to go deeper in the thread, but not recommending it.  The point is we shouldn’t rush to judgement over a ridiculously small sample size.

I was more concerned about his fielding immediately out of the gate given the combination of the early errors and odd throwing motion. But it appears it was just a little nerves and that's just the way he throws.

Edited Saturday at 02:51 AM by gehringer_2

[IdahoBert]

I remain amazed that after the July trade deadline, when I assumed this team had pulled the plug on any hopes for this season, that they would propel themselves into a future that is happening now. This late charge is dazzling and exceeds anything I had dared hope for.

These guys have a great esprit de corps that is tangible and infectious, and if there actually is a subjective or affective side to this game that has real effects when combined with good coaching and training, this bottled lightning they have discovered is a pure joy to witness.

[kdog]

Quote

While he was getting right physically, Mize was changing his arsenal. Most notably, he left the sinker behind in favor of a four-seam.

“Got away from the two-seamers to lefties because that was getting crushed in ’20 and ’21, so more four-seamers to those guys,” he said. “I’ve had a lot more success against lefties than righties this year, so it’s been a more complete arsenal to lefties.”

So why has Mize been good against lefties (.399 slugging) and struggled against same-handed hitters (.476 slugging)?

“A lot this year has been the slider,” he admitted. “I can’t spin the ball really well, I’m just trying to spin the ball around 87, and lately it’s been slower. If I get 87-plus, the numbers get great.”

Strangely, the numbers on Baseball Savant disagree, saying that he’s given up worse numbers on sliders over 87 mph than under 86. Perhaps that’s because he loses 4 inches of drop when he throws it 87. As you can see from the interaction chart below, adding velocity only gets him to a redder (better) part of the chart if he retains the movement he’s got. According to Stuff+, he should either retain 85 mph velocity and add more drop, or add velocity and retain the drop.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5761027/2024/09/13/spencer-schwellenback-casey-mize-dl-hall/

[casimir]

On 9/12/2024 at 2:39 PM, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I wanted to ask this two-part question. Do you consider this season a success where it stands right now and would you consider it a success if we end up missing the playoffs after all is said and done?

I don't know that its a success as a whole, but I do think they've gotten themselves into a position to build upon it for next season.  Given how last season went, it's probably a success if you look at it season over season.  I'm not so sure if you break down the seasons into months or quartiles or something like that.... if you accumulate this season's parts, I'm not sure if its more than a push with a slight hedge to success.

[chasfh]

21 hours ago, RatkoVarda said:

Hinch should get significant consideration as AL manager of the year for the masterful job he has done with this flawed team.

A.J. (can we can him “A.J.” now?) won’t win it, but he’ll get votes.

[Graterol]

I’m interested to see what Hinch/Harris do next year in the rotation. With the success of the opener/long reliever model, I assume it continues. Skubal, a FA, and Olson would be logical starters, and then could we go with two bullpen days? Montero, Hurter, Mize, Maeda might be better of going 5 innings out of the pen. Melton has good peripherals in the minors. It would also be a good way to limit Jobe innings we he hopefully gets called up next year. 

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Graterol said:

I’m interested to see what Hinch/Harris do next year in the rotation. With the success of the opener/long reliever model, I assume it continues. Skubal, a FA, and Olson would be logical starters, and then could we go with two bullpen days? Montero, Hurter, Mize, Maeda might be better of going 5 innings out of the pen. Melton has good peripherals in the minors. It would also be a good way to limit Jobe innings we he hopefully gets called up next year. 

The Tigers have had enough success with it that I look for the league to do something to outlaw 'openers' in the off-season.

Edited Saturday at 04:21 PM by gehringer_2

[casimir]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

The Tigers have had enough success with it that I look for the league to do something to outlaw 'openers' in the off-season.

Yes, I think we’ll see some regulations to discourage it.  That DH rule that has been bandied about whereby a team loses its sue if the SP fails to go a certain amount of innings seems like the kind of law to be enacted.

I can be stubborn about some things.  The devolution of SP is something that I’ve not liked.

[casimir]

4 hours ago, chasfh said:

A.J. (can we can him “A.J.” now?)

Do we have his permission?  His work shirt says “HINCH” on the back.

[Tenacious D]

5 hours ago, IdahoBert said:

I remain amazed that after the July trade deadline, when I assumed this team had pulled the plug on any hopes for this season, that they would propel themselves into a future that is happening now. This late charge is dazzling and exceeds anything I had dared hope for.

These guys have a great esprit de corps that is tangible and infectious, and if there actually is a subjective or affective side to this game that has real effects when combined with good coaching and training, this bottled lightning they have discovered is a pure joy to witness.

Esprit de corps?  5 Star post

[casimir]

7 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Esprit de corps?  5 Star post

Hold on, Bert’s from Idaho.  I figured Esprit de Corps was a suburb of Coeur d’Alene.  Am I missing something?

[IdahoBert]

33 minutes ago, casimir said:

Hold on, Bert’s from Idaho.  I figured Esprit de Corps was a suburb of Coeur d’Alene.  Am I missing something?

I have to admit, I have rarely had cause to use this term in any context, but it really applies to the energy you see exhibited on this field by these young guys. The unabashed joy they share is really special. 

[IdahoBert]

56 minutes ago, casimir said:

Yes, I think we’ll see some regulations to discourage it.  That DH rule that has been bandied about whereby a team loses its sue if the SP fails to go a certain amount of innings seems like the kind of law to be enacted.

I can be stubborn about some things.  The devolution of SP is something that I’ve not liked.

I can’t see how making a SP go a certain amount of innings has anything to do with the way this game has ever been played.

The bull pen strategy or whatever you wish to call it is only a direct result of pitchers going on the DL because every pitch can result in a home run and they’re injuring themselves trying to avoid that.   

If they’re going have a rule about pitching a certain number of innings, they should add the 10 run mercy rule and be honest about the Mickey Mouse nature of these changes. Of course, I don’t know what their series of ifs, ands, or buts are that will adjudicate all these possible complications.

If they’re going to do anything, they should deaden the ball so pitchers are not throwing their arms out of whack and getting TJ surgery for fear of giving up a plethora of long balls.  

[chasfh]

8 minutes ago, IdahoBert said:

I can’t see how making a SP go a certain amount of innings has anything to do with the way this game has ever been played.

THANK you. It hasn't escaped my notice that everyone I've ever heard clamoring for legislating longer starting pitcher starts are over 50, mostly way over. I've never heard any young fans agitate for it.

There's nothing I can see about the opener that is degrading the product on the field. One could fairly have made that case about extreme defensive shifts, and about pitchers and hitters dawdling around between pitches. I don't see the same five alarms going off about openers. As far as I can tell, the opener is just another pitcher being deployed to maximum advantage for a team, same as the closer which, if 50-ish-year-long memory serves, was also widely complained about since it (further) reduced complete games. Hell, the closer concept is still disparaged in some quarters.

9 minutes ago, IdahoBert said:

If they’re going to do anything, they should deaden the ball so pitchers are not throwing their arms out of whack and getting TJ surgery for fear of giving up a plethora of long balls.  

I love it when people cover my tunes.

[IdahoBert]

4 minutes ago, chasfh said:

THANK you. It hasn't escaped my notice that everyone I've ever heard clamoring for legislating longer starting pitcher starts are over 50, mostly way over. I've never heard any young fans agitate for it.

There's nothing I can see about the opener that is degrading the product on the field. One could fairly have made that case about extreme defensive shifts, and about pitchers and hitters dawdling around between pitches. I don't see the same five alarms going off about openers. As far as I can tell, the opener is just another pitcher being deployed to maximum advantage for a team, same as the closer which, if 50-ish-year-long memory serves, was also widely complained about since it (further) reduced complete games. Hell, the closer concept is still disparaged in some quarters.

I love it when people cover my tunes.

You are my Jimi Hendrix minus the overdosing, of course. 

[gehringer_2]

37 minutes ago, chasfh said:

THANK you. It hasn't escaped my notice that everyone I've ever heard clamoring for legislating longer starting pitcher starts are over 50, mostly way over. I've never heard any young fans agitate for it.

There's nothing I can see about the opener that is degrading the product on the field. One could fairly have made that case about extreme defensive shifts, and about pitchers and hitters dawdling around between pitches. I don't see the same five alarms going off about openers. As far as I can tell, the opener is just another pitcher being deployed to maximum advantage for a team, same as the closer which, if 50-ish-year-long memory serves, was also widely complained about since it (further) reduced complete games. Hell, the closer concept is still disparaged in some quarters.

I love it when people cover my tunes.

I have to wonder if the players association isn't or won't become another source of subtle pressure about it. Increasing use of openers is going to reduce the value of a lot of lower skill but high HR production players. If a guy with a high ISO but also a high platoon split can't be guaranteed his 2 or 3 AB against the correct sided pitcher, teams may move away from that kind of player.

Edited Saturday at 08:00 PM by gehringer_2

[IdahoBert]

15 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I have to wonder if the players association isn't or won't become another source of subtle pressure about it. Increasing use of openers is going to reduce the value of a lot of lower skill but high HR production players. If a guy with a high ISO but also a high platoon split can't be guaranteed his 2 or 3 AB against the correct sided pitcher, teams may move away from that kind of player.

That’s a really fascinating insight. It makes a lot of sense. 

[chasfh]

40 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I have to wonder if the players association isn't or won't become another source of subtle pressure about it. Increasing use of openers is going to reduce the value of a lot of lower skill but high HR production players. If a guy with a high ISO but also a high platoon split can't be guaranteed his 2 or 3 AB against the correct sided pitcher, teams may move away from that kind of player.

So Players is going to demand the opener be outlawed because guys like Rhys Hoskins and Adolis Garcia aren't getting enough homers? I don't see a path to it happening like that.

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, chasfh said:

So Players is going to demand the opener be outlawed because guys like Rhys Hoskins and Adolis Garcia aren't getting enough homers? I don't see a path to it happening like that.

I'm just thinking along the line that they banned the shift when they could have left the rules alone and eventually they would have has a generation of hitters that learned to go the other way. The fewer rules/constraints, the more likely the game can fix itself if left alone, people don't have patience for that.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I've never heard any young fans

are there any young fans?   

<j.k.>

[chasfh]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

I'm just thinking along the line that they banned the shift when they could have left the rules alone and eventually they would have has a generation of hitters that learned to go the other way. The fewer rules/constraints, the more likely the game can fix itself if left alone, people don't have patience for that.

I agree with your principle, although I don't think it's Players that drove that change. Baseball concluded that it just looked bad, and focus groups revealed a lot of fans agreed with them.

[chasfh]

2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

are there any young fans?   

<j.k.>

Several on my softball team. Actually Tiger fans, which is a bonus here in Big Shoulders. I might poll them on the question Monday if I remember.

[VegasTiger]

I would think if the MLBPA had an opinion on this it will be about lowering the salaries of starting pitchers.

[oblong]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I agree with your principle, although I don't think it's Players that drove that change. Baseball concluded that it just looked bad, and focus groups revealed a lot of fans agreed with them.

It was anecdotal outrage.  Their guy would hit into it and they’d get mad. They ignored when the other team hit into it against your team.  I don’t see how you can be a real baseball fan and want the shift banned. It’s innovation and knowledge and whatever Hinch and Harris cooked up at their breakfast in Birmingham the day after the trade deadline seems to be working.  That should be celebrated. 

[casimir]

On 9/14/2024 at 2:53 PM, IdahoBert said:

I have to admit, I have rarely had cause to use this term in any context, but it really applies to the energy you see exhibited on this field by these young guys. The unabashed joy they share is really special. 

The second half of this season ….. is it somewhat like the first half of 2006?  Who are these guys?  Why are they winning?  What, if anything, will this lead to?