20234-24 14-68. Now what? (The 2024 Offseason thread)

[buddha]

what's the most surprising move in free agency?

"Jamal Collier: Tobias Harris' contract with the Detroit Pistons. I certainly understand the thought process and fit for a young team that has cap space available and could use a veteran to help add some wins. However, a two-year, $52 million deal was surprising, especially considering Harris' up-and-down tenure with the Sixers after his last contract. Harris is now set to earn more than $300 million in his career at the end of this deal."

kcp is a better player and fit for the pistons and he'll be making $5 million less per season.  

harris' deal is a joke, something that was seemingly worked out with the old regime before they were replaced (arn tellum, anyone?).  no one else was giving harris that kind of money.

[Motown Bombers]

I think we’re missing the upside here. We can now trade Harris for an aging PF who has one last gasp to get us the 8th seed. 

[NYLion]

33 minutes ago, buddha said:

what's the most surprising move in free agency?

"Jamal Collier: Tobias Harris' contract with the Detroit Pistons. I certainly understand the thought process and fit for a young team that has cap space available and could use a veteran to help add some wins. However, a two-year, $52 million deal was surprising, especially considering Harris' up-and-down tenure with the Sixers after his last contract. Harris is now set to earn more than $300 million in his career at the end of this deal."

kcp is a better player and fit for the pistons and he'll be making $5 million less per season.  

harris' deal is a joke, something that was seemingly worked out with the old regime before they were replaced (arn tellum, anyone?).  no one else was giving harris that kind of money.

Ok and KCP is signing here why? And KCP is signing here for that cheap why?

Come on Buddha, you know very well why the Pistons have no shot at guys like KCP and have to settle for scraps. If Harris didn't have deep ties to Michigan he's not coming to Detroit either. This is probably the worst job in the league for a GM, one of the worst even in good times because not only is it an undesirable market it's not a basketball market either and now it's a market with a long losing tradition so it's a tough sell for players to come here. The only real ways to improve are drafting and developing or trade of players who don't have no trade clauses.

I'm not advocating for the Harris signing btw, just stating the reality of the situation. The Pistons need to get to the cap floor so this is how they did it. Harris isn't a nothing player, he can provide a little scoring like Bogey so.... yeah, there we go. It's....something.

Edited July 3, 2024 by NYLion

[buddha]

54 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Ok and KCP is signing here why? And KCP is signing here for that cheap why?

Come on Buddha, you know very well why the Pistons have no shot at guys like KCP and have to settle for scraps. If Harris didn't have deep ties to Michigan he's not coming to Detroit either. This is probably the worst job in the league for a GM, one of the worst even in good times because not only is it an undesirable market it's not a basketball market either and now it's a market with a long losing tradition so it's a tough sell for players to come here. The only real ways to improve are drafting and developing or trade of players who don't have no trade clauses.

I'm not advocating for the Harris signing btw, just stating the reality of the situation. The Pistons need to get to the cap floor so this is how they did it. Harris isn't a nothing player, he can provide a little scoring like Bogey so.... yeah, there we go. It's....something.

if you offered kcp 3 years at $30 million per year, he would happily come here.

[casimir]

2 hours ago, buddha said:

what's the most surprising move in free agency?

"Jamal Collier: Tobias Harris' contract with the Detroit Pistons. I certainly understand the thought process and fit for a young team that has cap space available and could use a veteran to help add some wins. However, a two-year, $52 million deal was surprising, especially considering Harris' up-and-down tenure with the Sixers after his last contract. Harris is now set to earn more than $300 million in his career at the end of this deal."

kcp is a better player and fit for the pistons and he'll be making $5 million less per season.  

harris' deal is a joke, something that was seemingly worked out with the old regime before they were replaced (arn tellum, anyone?).  no one else was giving harris that kind of money.

Who's to say Caldwell-Pope even sniffed a Piston offer (if offered)?

[buddha]

37 minutes ago, casimir said:

Who's to say Caldwell-Pope even sniffed a Piston offer (if offered)?

i dont know if he did either way.  i would not simply assume that he would not take an offer that was for a lot more than the offer he eventually accepted, although it is possible that he was not going to come here for any amount of money.

although i doubt it.

[Betrayer]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

i dont know if he did either way.  i would not simply assume that he would not take an offer that was for a lot more than the offer he eventually accepted, although it is possible that he was not going to come here for any amount of money.

although i doubt it.

KCP is a two time-champ who's gone from playoff team to playoff team. He wasn't coming here. Let's be real. Even draft prospects were told not to workout here by their agents.

Like I said previously, we have to put out the dumpster fire before we're going to get any players. Raise the floor and build a respectable organization. And we certainly don't have a lot of assets to give away to trade for good players either thanks to Weaver's rebuild strategy.

Tobias isn't an All-Star but he's a legitimate starter at a position of need and a perennial 17ppg scorer who's rated as Above Average to Very Good on Synergy at every facet of scoring. He's a neutral defender, unlike Bogie who was a huge minus on that end and got hunted on every play. And he's also been very durable in his career, unlike Bogie. He'll raise the floor.

[NYLion]

4 hours ago, buddha said:

if you offered kcp 3 years at $30 million per year, he would happily come here.

He was only signing with a contender, every insider stated that so it's not just my speculation. The Pistons had no chance at him 

Edited July 3, 2024 by NYLion

[casimir]

4 hours ago, buddha said:

if you offered kcp 3 years at $30 million per year, he would happily come here.

How do you know that to be true?  Have we not seen players take less money for better situations, be it fit/role with team and/or team expectations?

[buddha]

40 minutes ago, casimir said:

How do you know that to be true?  Have we not seen players take less money for better situations, be it fit/role with team and/or team expectations?

i dont know it to be true, its just speculation.  

you guys are really all about tobias harris at $26 million.  i mean, its been rumored to be happening for a very long time, i'm sure it was trajan's decision.

[Shinzaki]

I'm not thrilled with Harris or Hardaway...but they're two more actual NBA players than we ended the year with..so...OK

[Hongbit]

8 hours ago, buddha said:

i dont know it to be true, its just speculation.  

you guys are really all about tobias harris at $26 million.  i mean, its been rumored to be happening for a very long time, i'm sure it was trajan's decision.

Overpaying to $26M is a non issue.  They have way more cap space than they are going to be able to use.   

[Deleterious]

Not convinced Hardaway is still an NBA player.  Stats make it seem like he had an OK year, but it was ugly.  He started the first half hot and put up some numbers.  But post all star game he was really bad.  I think the final 3 months he shot below 40% from the field and had a TS% in the mid 40's.  Those numbers make Killian Hayes cringe.  He looked old and slow.  

[casimir]

16 hours ago, buddha said:

i dont know it to be true, its just speculation.  

you guys are really all about tobias harris at $26 million.  i mean, its been rumored to be happening for a very long time, i'm sure it was trajan's decision.

I don't think Harris at $26M is worth celebrating.  Heck, the short 2 season term is the best part of that contract.  But this organization has been run into the ground that this is the kind of free agent they can acquire right now.  He presents an option to open up space for Cunningham.  He's a veteran than can absorb some of the scoring load.  He's probably a moveable asset at some point that can get some kind of draft pick attached.

I'd have rather had Caldwell-Pope, too.  Actually, if they had figured out a way to get both, that'd have been a pretty decent offseason for the Pistons.

Cunningham, Caldwell-Pope, Thompson, Harris, Duren with Sasser, Ivey, Holland, Stewart off of the bench.  Still sucks this upcoming season, but maybe its a more tolerable watch and headed in the right direction?  Now its probably Ivey starting and Hardaway Jr off of the bench.

[buddha]

8 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Not convinced Hardaway is still an NBA player.  Stats make it seem like he had an OK year, but it was ugly.  He started the first half hot and put up some numbers.  But post all star game he was really bad.  I think the final 3 months he shot below 40% from the field and had a TS% in the mid 40's.  Those numbers make Killian Hayes cringe.  He looked old and slow.  

and they gave away an nba player to get hardaway.  the three second round picks are....something?  

harris is a waste of money.  he was finished at the end of last year and the pistons just gave him half of their available cap space.  to do what?  be old and occasionally hit a jumper?

tobias harris is here because the old regime set up this deal months ago.  is he an upgrade?  i guess?  but not as much of one as some of you are insisting.  

if he gets hot could he bring back a pick in return?  maybe some seconds but he wont bring back a first.

it's a nothing signing.  this whole offseason has been nothing so far.  theyre going to see if the new staff can develop the existing talent. i'm ok with that, i guess.  but if this was langdon's strategy of acquiring assets, he hasnt done a good job of it yet.

but its still early.

[Deleterious]

Calling Harris a floor spacer is a bit of a stretch.

He shot below league average on 3's last year and only made 1.3 per game.  For context, Stewart gets criticized for only make 1.5 3's per game.  Harris only made 1.3 per game last year.  He doesn't shoot it well enough or on high enough volume for defenses to really care about him.

I also don't see teams giving up picks to obtain him.  He played 35+ minutes a game in the playoffs this year and couldn't even average 10 points per game.  Teams looking at playoff runs don't want that. 

[buddha]

6 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Calling Harris a floor spacer is a bit of a stretch.

He shot below league average on 3's last year and only made 1.3 per game.  For context, Stewart gets criticized for only make 1.5 3's per game.  Harris only made 1.3 per game last year.  He doesn't shoot it well enough or on high enough volume for defenses to really care about him.

I also don't see teams giving up picks to obtain him.  He played 35+ minutes a game in the playoffs this year and couldn't even average 10 points per game.  Teams looking at playoff runs don't want that. 

plus harris is on the team for $26 million for the next two years.  no one is giving you picks for average to below averge play and $26 million.

he's a buyout candidate, not a trade candidate.

the "he wanted to come here, yay!" stuff is just sad.  overpay an actual GOOD role player, dont overpay an old man who is past it.

i dont blame langdon as much for harris because i think that deal was in place for a long time.  i do blame him for giving up assets to get thj.  that seemed dumb.  and if you are going down the "collect assets for cap space road" then he's done a real ****ty job of it so far.

ive been reading about all these teams that will have to dump salary to stay below the various caps and taxes and how the pistons were poised to take advantage of that.  JEiii has been spouting that **** as gospel for two years: "wait until 2024 and you'll see...   

well, were waiting.

[buddha]

"Detroit Pistons have also expressed interest in Beasley and have flirted with offering the 27-year-old guard a one-year deal. However, Detroit has held off for now amid trade discussions with other teams to act as a salary dump destination for draft pick compensation, league sources told HoopsHype."

" Detroit Pistons flirted with the idea of offering Hield a one-year deal, but they instead chose to preserve cap space to be a potential salary dump destination for teams, league sources told HoopsHype"

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-rumors-demar-derozan-brandon-ingram-buddy-hield-malik-beasley-free-agency-trades/

 

[Hongbit]

32 minutes ago, buddha said:

"Detroit Pistons have also expressed interest in Beasley and have flirted with offering the 27-year-old guard a one-year deal. However, Detroit has held off for now amid trade discussions with other teams to act as a salary dump destination for draft pick compensation, league sources told HoopsHype."

" Detroit Pistons flirted with the idea of offering Hield a one-year deal, but they instead chose to preserve cap space to be a potential salary dump destination for teams, league sources told HoopsHype"

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-rumors-demar-derozan-brandon-ingram-buddy-hield-malik-beasley-free-agency-trades/

 

Now you got me Buddha.   Hearing this news, the $26M on Harris was stupid.  Hield would’ve taken more 3’s, made more 3’s, cost less and been for a smaller term.  It would’ve also given them more money to take on salary dumps.  

[buddha]

shams reports pistons sign malik beasley.  1 year $6m.

good deal.

[casimir]

20 minutes ago, buddha said:

shams reports pistons sign malik beasley.  1 year $6m.

good deal.

Can we call him a floor spacer?

[Deleterious]

He can shoot but is a terrible defender. 

He will have a no trade clause.

[Shinzaki]

Another competent NBA player...with a better coach...no reason we can't double last years win total

[casimir]

1 hour ago, Deleterious said:

He can shoot but is a terrible defender. 

He will have a no trade clause.

The no trade clause can probably be waived if they find a deal with a situation that he is amenable to. 

Cunningham, Ivey, Harris, Fontecchio, Duren.

Sasser, Beasley, Thompson, Holland, Stewart.

Injuries will remove someone from the above on a nightly basis.  The scoring floor has been raised at least.  Maybe?

[buddha]

3 hours ago, casimir said:

The no trade clause can probably be waived if they find a deal with a situation that he is amenable to. 

Cunningham, Ivey, Harris, Fontecchio, Duren.

Sasser, Beasley, Thompson, Holland, Stewart.

Injuries will remove someone from the above on a nightly basis.  The scoring floor has been raised at least.  Maybe?

that starting lineup would give up 40 points a quarter.

but youre right, they would score more than last year.