Red Wings 2024 Off-Season Thread

[lordstanley]

 

[slothfacekilla]

Sounds like Trouba will be dealt to Detroit today?

edit I’m way behind I see!

Edited June 29 by slothfacekilla

[slothfacekilla]

1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

 

Copp was coming off a great playoffs with NYR and sucked when he got here.  
Maybe Trouba can do the reverse.  

Hopefully Trouba rebounds from his injury better than Copp did 

[buddha]

so we take trouba which allows the rangers to free up enough space to sign kane?

[Mr.TaterSalad]

The Rangers retaining some of Trouba's salary will make this a much better deal in my eyes, assuming we didn't give up something insane. Trouba will be an asset to this team all in all. Will he be the guy that got 50 points in Winnipeg a few seasons back, no likely not, but he can't be any worse than running the dead body of Petry or Holl out there every night. 

I'd probably have gone for Matt Roy myself, but I'm not going to hate this deal unless the trade valuation is way out of sorts. After this deal is done it'd be nice to go out get Trevor Zegras, but I think I'm living in fantasyland with that one. Maybe Jonathan Marchessault as a consolation prize to replace Kane.

Edited June 29 by Mr.TaterSalad

[Dan Gilmore]

2 hours ago, Hongbit said:

Don’t think Trouba is that good but he fits the need for a vet blue liner.  Also brings some much needed toughness.  I’m on board if NYR treat this as a salary dump and pick up contract money and don’t ask for much in return.    I hope they are still in on Roy too.  

I gave a like to this, especially for the last sentence. I don’t have the hockey knowledge that most of the posters here do, but would appreciate the thoughts on this.

Specifically, would the Wings be able to fit both Trouba and Roy into the cap space and have a moderate amount left over to sign a couple role player types, like Perron? If if they did, how much better would the greatly strengthened blue line help cover for mediocre at best goaltending? Is this the way to go, and hope that the forwards are good enough for now? Help on the way there from Kasper, later Danielson or Mazer? 

Edited June 29 by Dan Gilmore
Typos

[Mr.TaterSalad]

What does Trouba coming in mean for Ghost coming back now, if anything?

[slothfacekilla]

1 hour ago, lordstanley said:

 

Checks out

 

 

[buddha]

16 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said:

I gave a like to this, especially for the last sentence. I don’t have the hockey knowledge that most of the posters here do, but would appreciate the thoughts on this.

Specifically, would the Wings be able to fit both Trouba and Roy into the cap space and have a moderate amount left over to sign a couple role player types, like Perron? If if they did, how much better would the greatly strengthened blue line help cover for mediocre at best goaltending? Is this the way to go, and hope that the forwards are good enough for now? Help on the way there from Kasper, later Danielson or Mazer? 

they could probably do that.  but then no kane or any other good offensive player.

[buddha]

ondrej becher.

sounds like a slightly bigger max plante.

winger, playmaker, sound defensively, scored a lot of points in the whl last year.

[slothfacekilla]

3 minutes ago, buddha said:

ondrej becher.

sounds like a slightly bigger max plante.

winger, playmaker, sound defensively, scored a lot of points in the whl last year.

Wings seem to like their overagers in these middle rounds 

[buddha]

plante:

Tier: Has a chance to play games

 

Skating: NHL average

Puck skills: Above NHL average

Hockey sense: NHL average

Compete: Above NHL average

Shot: Below NHL average

 

Analysis: Plante was one of the better forwards for the U.S. NTDP this season. He’s a highly skilled forward who can make a lot of plays and brings a strong tempo to his game. He is a very creative playmaker with the puck who can create on the move, at the net and from the perimeter. He’s not that big or physical, but Plante gives a good effort and plays with courage. The debate on him will be as a smaller winger if he’s dynamic enough offensively and a natural enough scorer to be an NHL middle-six wing.

[buddha]

becher:

Skating: NHL average

Puck skills: NHL average

Hockey sense: Below NHL average

Compete: NHL average

Shot: Above NHL average

 

Analysis: Becher took significant steps forward from being a mediocre junior player into one of the best WHL forwards this season. He was also very good at the world juniors for Czechia. The third-year draft-eligible center is a strong skater with a good skill level. He can beat defenders one-on-one with pace. He sees the ice OK and has a good one-timer. He showed well running the flank on Prince George’s power play although he doesn’t project into that role as a pro. He’s average-sized, but competes well enough and gets to the middle of the ice. Nothing about his game truly stands out, so a clear NHL role isn’t something I see, but there’s enough to his game to potentially find a way into some sort of job.

[buddha]

those are from pronman.  i like pronman because he has reports on EVERYONE.  that's always fun.

however, i think his attempt to know something about everyone means he doesnt really know everything about anyone.

its really hard to know stuff about everyone.

[buddha]

here's what he says about mbn:

Skating: NHL average

Puck skills: NHL average

Hockey sense: NHL average

Compete: Above NHL average

Shot: High-end

 

Player comparable: Tyler Bertuzzi

 

Analysis: Brandsegg-Nygård was very good at the Swedish junior level. He started off slow versus men, but was very good in the Allsvenskan playoffs and made Norway’s senior team. He is a well-rounded forward. He’s a good skater. He has strong puck skills. He has a great shot and is often a threat to score from mid-distance. His frame is average-sized, but he plays hard and has physicality in his game. He thinks the game well and sees plays develop, but I don’t think his playmaking is his main asset. Even if he’s not very dynamic, Brandsegg-Nygård has a game that should lend itself to success versus men, eventually as a good NHL forward and potentially in a top six.

***

i watched tyler bertuzzi for a long time.  he did not have average nhl skating or a high end nhl shot.  he had high compete and great hands, but his hockey sense (at least on the defensive end) was poor and he couldnt skate.

nygard doesnt sound anything like bertuzzi to me other than he's a similar size and tough.  

again, this is just me nitpicking but i do put a few grains of salt on pronman's analysis.

[buddha]

10 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said:

Wings seem to like their overagers in these middle rounds 

with very middling results so far.

[holygoat]

42 minutes ago, buddha said:

so we take trouba which allows the rangers to free up enough space to sign kane?

Did Troy Weaver take over the Red Wings?

[buddha]

trouba would give them another physical defenseman like chairot.  but it also gives them a guy that makes a lot of mistakes, like chairot.

all of this is because the wings are still small and not a physical team.  they get beat up all the time.  yzerman has been chasing strength and physical play for a long time now.  and still doesnt have enough of it.

rasmussen should be that player but he hasnt done it consistently yet.  mazur and kasper could also play that role up front.  they need it.

[1984Echoes]

14 minutes ago, buddha said:

becher:

... took significant steps forward from being a mediocre junior player into one of the best WHL forwards this season. He was also very good at the world juniors for Czechia. The third-year draft-eligible center is a strong skater with a good skill level. He can beat defenders one-on-one with pace. He sees the ice OK and has a good one-timer. He showed well running the flank on Prince George’s power play although he doesn’t project into that role as a pro. He’s average-sized, but competes well enough and gets to the middle of the ice. Nothing about his game truly stands out, so a clear NHL role isn’t something I see, but there’s enough to his game to potentially find a way into some sort of job.

From The Hockey Writers:

https://thehockeywriters.com/ondrej-becher-2024-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/

…  may be one of the riskiest picks heading into the 2024 NHL Draft, but his upside could make him a steal. As a third-year draft eligible, comparing him to his fellow 2024 Draft prospects is difficult since most are still 17 or 18 years old. While he may have gone undrafted in the 2022 and 2023 NHL Drafts, his 2023-24 performance has led him to bold top-50 praise by some.

Becher started this past season on fire, scoring 20 points in his team’s first 10 games and surpassing his career high of 38 points just a few weeks later. He finished the season with 32 goals and 98 points, the 13th-highest in all of the Western Hockey League (WHL). He uses his skating and hands to drive offense, handling the puck with ease in the offensive zone. He has elite edges and speed, keeping his head up to find the best pass.

The best part of Becher’s offensive game is his playmaking, specifically at driving offense on the perimeter of the offensive zone. He speeds around defenders while stickhandling around defenders, making risky but often worthwhile passes that lead to goals. Of course, he spent the majority of the season playing alongside top WHL forwards Terik Parascak, Riley Heidt, and Zac Funk. By playing with such strong talent, many teams will likely fear Becher will not be able to translate his game to the NHL since he relies on his linemates. However, that should not be the case for two reasons.

The first reason is a player should not be penalized for succeeding alongside great talent. Parascak, Heidt, and Funk all broke out offensively this past season and Becher kept up. He elevated his game when it mattered most, and his offense came from working with talent, not relying on it. Even when he played with other forwards, he still found success. Whoever lands Becher will be getting a center who can carry his weight in any role.

The second, and more relevant reason Becher will translate his game to the NHL is his elite defensive play. While he is phenomenal at using his stick for offense, he is even better at using it defensively. He uses his skating to keep up with defenders and his stick to knock opponents off the puck. His defensive ability allowed teammates to be more aggressive offensively, knowing they have Becher to rely on in case things go south. While his age is likely a factor for his defense looking so strong, his ability to learn from past mistakes shows he has the ability to develop into a strong NHL center.

Quotables

“Becher is a smart offensive force that impacts the game at both ends. He moves well with great straight-line acceleration and fluid edges. He takes open spaces and puts himself in high-danger opportunities, generally attacking the weak side of the ice. He’s a savvy playmaker with great hands and puck protection, completing impressive feeds, even no-look ones with ease.” – Joey Fortin Boulay, FC Hockey (from, ‘25381 – Canada vs. Czechia’, FC Hockey – 01/03/24).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gehringer_2]

9 minutes ago, buddha said:

i watched tyler bertuzzi for a long time.  he did not have average nhl skating or a high end nhl shot.  he had high compete and great hands, but his hockey sense (at least on the defensive end) was poor and he couldnt skate.

What compensated for lack of great wheels besides the good energy level was that Tyler did have some anticipation sense. For instance, you can have decent wheels and still be pretty useless on the fore-check if you are just constantly running to where the play is already over(Zadina?). But he really lost me over his COVID nonsense. Larkin said all the right things at the time but I'd would not be surprised if he wasn't just as happy to see him go.

[gehringer_2]

11 minutes ago, buddha said:

trouba would give them another physical defenseman like chairot.  but it also gives them a guy that makes a lot of mistakes, like chairot.

all of this is because the wings are still small and not a physical team.  they get beat up all the time.  yzerman has been chasing strength and physical play for a long time now.  and still doesnt have enough of it.

rasmussen should be that player but he hasnt done it consistently yet.  mazur and kasper could also play that role up front.  they need it.

and that relates to the value of still trying to pick up Roy. Even if all your Dmen are big and strong, you still need to win puck battles mid ice and in the O zone. There is a limit what Dmen can do to protect under powered Wingers so I don't want them to over commit in the Dzone either. I think at this point, Trouba (assuming a done deal), Seider, Edvinsson and Chiarot is plenty of size on the blue line - unless something falls in SY's lap, I would spend what resources are left up front.

Edited June 29 by gehringer_2

[1984Echoes]

2 hours ago, lordstanley said:

 

I take this to mean, if he attempted... he didn't get any interest in Chiarot or Maatta, so he was stuck only with the option of moving Walman. He may have been the easiest to move of the 3 regardless. That's 4 LHD in Chiarot, Maatta, Edvinsson, Johansson... and 5 if they re-sign Gost.

 

[1984Echoes]

2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

and that relates to the value of still trying to pick up Roy. Even if all your Dmen are big and strong, you still need to win puck battles mid ice and in the O zone. There is a limit what Dmen can do to protect under powered Wingers so I don't want them to over commit in the Dzone either. I think at this point, Trouba, Seider, Edvinsson and Chiarot is plenty of size on the blue line - unless something falls in SY's lap, I would spend what resources are left up front.

I would still be interested in Roy, and he'd be the better 2nd pair with Edvinsson...

But I think, if we also are able to add Trouba... then Yzerman MUST be able to push BOTH Petry and Holl out the door (however he's able to do that), not just one of them...

In order to add both Trouba and Roy, that is...

[gehringer_2]

well just to fantasy speculate - if they added Roy and Trouba I think Lalonde has to reformulate the whole scheme because you are going to end up with a team where many/most of your most skilled players are defensemen. That's going to argue for a more interchangeable approach where Seider, Roy, Edvinsson, Ghost, Trouba have more freedom in the O zone with the forwards tasked to also play more hybrid and accept more responsibility to get back first as needed. That might be hard to coach successfully but could also be a hard/confusing kind of team to have to play against.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Who do we think they use a buyout on at this point, if anyone? I know the Wallman trade sorta acted as a buyout already, but who is the most likely candidate? I know we always talk about Holl and Petry, for good reason too. However, could Andrew Copp be a dark horse candidate to be bought out and replaced with Kasper, Danielson, or a free agent signing?