Red Wings 2024 Off-Season Thread

[1984Echoes]

One other thing:

Even though there are no 1A's out there, to sign as FA's...

I still think there are a couple guys out there that Yzerman should pursue:

2-way players, which is much needed. And playing at higher levels than the Copp's/Compher's/Chiarot's of the world.

Obviously, this is predicated on dumping as much salary as possible, not just UFA's but also an RFA or two, and most likely a couple vet's signed for next year...

But I would look at my two favorites from the deadline: Noah Hanifan and Elias Lindholm.

The argument for Lindholm: an actual #2 center. And a tough 2-way player. Argument against: 44 pts in 75 games and a -14 in 2023-24. For: 64 pts in 80 games and +6 the year prior, and 82 pts in 82 games (42 goals!!!) and a +61 the year prior. He allows Compher to be the #3, Kasper to come up and work his way into the lineup (meaning most likely he would start as a winger with less defensive responsibility) and if Kasper steals the #2C spot then fine, Lindholm is a scoring winger on his line. I would rather eliminate some combination of Kane/ Sprong/ Perron/ Fabbri/ Veleno... and HAVE Lindholm... than go back to the above 5 Wings OVER him. Whoever survives of those 5, as a Wing in 2024... great. But Lindholm has a higher priority level, and skill level, and youth and 2-way ability over any of them... So I want to START with Lindholm, add Kasper and Mazur... and THEN determine who of those 5 can still remain with the Wings. I know the actual timing is the reverse of that.. I'm just sayin'...

The argument for Hanifan: an actual #1 LHD to pair with Seider. And a tough 2-way player on defense, providing both offense as well as defense from that spot, as well as a high-level of toughness. Argument against: too many LH'ed D on the Wings roster? That can be... corrected. For: 47 pts in 80 games and a +19 this past year. 38 pts in 81 games and +2 the year prior, and 48 pts in 81 games and a +27 the year prior. Now.. Walman has been a nice surprise. But Hanifan is better... much better. Edvinsson may some day take over as #1 LHD, but he's not there yet. Hanifan + Seider? I think that's an outstanding #1 pair. Edvinsson + Tuomisto? I'm guessing... but also WANT that as 2nd pair in 2024-25. If Edvinsson becomes so good that he forces his way to the top pairing...? OK: Then it's Edvinsson + Seider = #1 pair and Hanifan + Tuomisto as #2 pair.

I think that is STILL an awesome top 4 pairing... and YOUNG!!! Hanifan is the best vet to plop into the middle of a top 4 like that and be that vet leader.

Walman drops to #3... and 3rd pair (plus 4th D'man) can be filled in with Holl or Wallinder or Johansson or Maatta or however that works out.

EVERYONE ELSE is expendable IMO... That includes Petry, Gost, Chiarot (I think Maatta too but am uncertain where we are with Cap once we get to Chiarot & Maatta...).

I'm happy.

That's my offseason FA wants. Dump as much salary as necessary... call up lots of kids... add two better talents than the middling talents we've added the past two years. Specifically: I want Hanifan and Lindholm.

 

 

Edited April 19 by 1984Echoes

[1984Echoes]

17 hours ago, Hart said:

Any chance Buium makes the team out of camp next year?  He's the same age as Edvinsson.  Also, the fact Denver shut down a loaded Boston College team in the championship game is encouraging.  I know his brother is top prospect but Shai was right there with him in +/- on the season.  

If he were a Right shot the door would be OPEN for that possibility... I'm not talking about likelihood, that would be 100% the Org determining if he needed more seasoning first. Or not.

But as a Left shot... he has a crapload more hurdles to get over before he could get that type of a shot (opening day Wings 2024-25 roster...).

Those hurdles are named:

Jake Walman.

Shane Gostisbehere.

Ben Chiarot.

Simon Edvinsson.

Olli Maatta (yes, even him).

William Wallinder.

and possibly even Albert Johansson.

 

That is just a MUCH higher wall to climb than as a right-shot D for the Wings. Seider is #1. And then...? Petry? Holl? Tuomisto? And that's it?

 

 

[gehringer_2]

As much as we rag on the Wing Dmen, and as much of it is justified, I also wonder how much of the defensive deficiency is how little quality two way play we get from our forwards. All things being equal, look at our GF/GA and to me a Dman should be a higher priority than a Center, but.....all things are never equal. I think it could well be that another forward player or two that plays two-way as aggressively as Larkin, esp at Center, might make guys at the Chiarot and Maata level look a lot more effective than they do now. How often do you see the Wings regain possession between the half-boards and the blue line? That region is not the responsibility of your Dmen, and the Wings do not generate anywhere near enough puck pressure there.

Edited April 19 by gehringer_2

[slothfacekilla]

1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said:

 

That's my offseason FA wants. Dump as much salary as necessary... call up lots of kids... add two better talents than the middling talents we've added the past two years. Specifically: I want Hanifan and Lindholm.

 

 

Well Hanifan signed an 8 year extension with the Golden Knights so that's going to be a tough one to pull off.  With how people are reacting to Copp and Compher, I'm shocked Lindholm's name is being brought up especially when he'll probably cost more than those two.  Compher had a better season than Lindholm last season.

[Shinzaki]

If Kane, Sprong and Perron leave...I'd like to see them add a legit 30+ goal scorer like Guentzel, Reinhart or even Stamkos. Plug in that one big FA signing and move up Kasper and Mazur.  Fischer should be resigned  We also need to upgrade goal from Husso.

On D..be nice to bring back ghost.  The contracts on D are short enough that that unit will sort itself out over the next couple of years

Edited April 19 by Shinzaki

[lordstanley]

3 hours ago, slothfacekilla said:

I watched Patrick Kane's media availability yesterday and the vibe I get from it is that the thing that is most important to him is that he gets a longer-term contract from his next team.  I'm not sure that's the way Yzerman wants to go with him but it'll be interesting to see.

Yeah, this half-season was his post-surgery audition, with the audience being not only the Wings but also the entire league. The Wings and Kane were a good fit for each other in that case and I think both understood that going in. Both sides now have to make a business decision that's best for themselves, I don't expect either to give the other any favors, and if they part neither will have any hard feelings, IMO.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

32 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

If Kane, Sprong and Perron leave...I'd like to see them add a legit 30+ goal scorer like Guentzel, Reinhart or even Stamkos. Plug in that one big FA signing and move up Kasper and Mazur.  Fischer should be resigned  We also need to upgrade goal from Husso.

On D..be nice to bring back ghost.  The contracts on D are short enough that that unit will sort itself out over the next couple of years

Where's the money going to come from though to get a big free agent when they have to pay both Seider and Raymond. They have $2,813,684 in cap space currently and if all three of Kane, Perron, and Sprong left that would be about $19 million cleared in cap space when you calculate what they have plus the three players leaving. Wouldn't Seider and Raymond eat most, if not all, of that cap space up with $8 million/year contracts?

Edited April 19 by Mr.TaterSalad

[lordstanley]

 

[1984Echoes]

2 hours ago, slothfacekilla said:

Well Hanifan signed an 8 year extension with the Golden Knights so that's ...

Yeah, that's on me for not paying enough attention...

 

2 hours ago, slothfacekilla said:

... With how people are reacting to Copp and Compher, I'm shocked Lindholm's name is being brought up especially when he'll probably cost more than those two.  Compher had a better season than Lindholm last season.

Lindholm scored 42 goals and 40 assists in 2022...

Yeah, I know that's two years ago... But, just asking: Who on the Red Wings, aside from DeBrincat, has ever had a year like that?

 

49 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

If Kane, Sprong and Perron leave...I'd like to see them add a legit 30+ goal scorer like ...

 

Lindholm?

[Shinzaki]

18 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Where's the money going to come from though to get a big free agent when they have to pay both Seider and Raymond. They have $2,813,684 in cap space currently and if all three of Kane, Perron, and Sprong left that would be about $19 million cleared in cap space when you calculate what they have plus the three players leaving. Wouldn't Seider and Raymond eat most, if not all, of that cap space up with $8 million/year contracts?

Capfriendly says they have $28 million. That might be enough to fit Raymond, Seider and a impact acquisition 

[1984Echoes]

19 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Where's the money going to come from though to get a big free agent when they have to pay both Seider and Raymond. They have $2,813,684 in cap space currently and if all three of Kane, Perron, and Sprong left that would be about $19 million cleared in cap space when you calculate what they have plus the three players leaving. Wouldn't Seider and Raymond eat most, if not all, of that cap space up with $8 million/year contracts?

2024 Red Wings UFA's

Gost: $ 4.1 Mill

Perron: $ 4.75 Mill

Kane: $ 2.75 Mill

Sprong: $ 2 Mill

Reimer: $ 1.5 mill

Fischer: $ 1.125 mill

TOTAL, PRE-RFA's - $ 17.2 mill.

If Mazur, Kasper and Tuomisto are brought up... And Seider & Raymond sign extensions, and Cossa is at least considered the #3 Goalie (and therefore Reimer is no longer needed), and Edvinsson is designated a full-season D; then:

The decisions would be: whether to let go of any RFA's (like Veleno), to trade or dump an extra salary or a few (such as Petry or Holl, and with Walman & Edvinsson the top two LHD's, even with Gost leaving as a UFA, why do we need both Maatta & Chiarot, when there's even the possibility that Wallinder and/ or Johansson is ready for NHL ice time? So at least ONE of those two needs to be moved... IMO).

There are extra salary savings that can be had between RFA's and too many defenseman...

I think we have room to chase a Lindholm, who, along with Kasper and Mazur, replace 3 of the forwards that we lose in the offseason. Also... I'll just throw this out there... Danielson is looking "SHARP!" so I believe he also has a real shot at making the 2024 roster.

Lots of kids.

Some high-end veteran help would be great to help lead this team into the playoffs.

IMO.

Larkin, plus Lindholm, and Raymond, DeBrincat, Copp, Compher, Mazur, Kasper, POSSIBLY Danielson... I think that's a nice top 9.

Walman-Seider, Edvinsson-Holl, Maatta-Tuomisto, plus Wallinder/ Johansson/ and maybe even Buium waiting in the wings (sorry for the pun) ... That's young. A lot of youth there. But also size, speed & skill on the blue line.

I'm comfortable with going into next year with that.

We may even possibly be able to keep Fischer & Veleno as 4th line guys...

I'll let Yzerman work out the details...

[slothfacekilla]

30 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Yeah, that's on me for not paying enough attention...

 

Lindholm scored 42 goals and 40 assists in 2022...

Yeah, I know that's two years ago... But, just asking: Who on the Red Wings, aside from DeBrincat, has ever had a year like that?

 

 

Lindholm?

Chasing and paying for past production is the easiest way to give out a bad contract.  This is a guy who has scored 20+ goals 4 seasons out of his 11 seasons yet you expect him to be the guy who pots 40 goals / is a 30 goal scorer?  He's scored 30 goals once in his career.  I'm not willing to make that bet personally but I can see why someone might want to chase the name recognition.  I'm not saying he's a bad player, but there's a reason he's going to be available.

[gehringer_2]

38 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

Capfriendly says they have $28 million. That might be enough to fit Raymond, Seider and a impact acquisition 

I think I did this pretty much this math earlier. If Seider and Raymond go for $16.5M, that's about a $14.5M increase (each now cost just under 1M). If you cut bait on both Kane and Gost  that leaves you with up to $12M. That's still major money in the NHL. BUT you have to be willing to do all the rest of you fill-ins from GR, which Yzerman is probably loath to do.

[buddha]

bultman's article today made it seem like kane is probably gone and perron will probably stick around.

 

[buddha]

1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said:

2024 Red Wings UFA's

Gost: $ 4.1 Mill

Perron: $ 4.75 Mill

Kane: $ 2.75 Mill

Sprong: $ 2 Mill

Reimer: $ 1.5 mill

Fischer: $ 1.125 mill

TOTAL, PRE-RFA's - $ 17.2 mill.

If Mazur, Kasper and Tuomisto are brought up... And Seider & Raymond sign extensions, and Cossa is at least considered the #3 Goalie (and therefore Reimer is no longer needed), and Edvinsson is designated a full-season D; then:

The decisions would be: whether to let go of any RFA's (like Veleno), to trade or dump an extra salary or a few (such as Petry or Holl, and with Walman & Edvinsson the top two LHD's, even with Gost leaving as a UFA, why do we need both Maatta & Chiarot, when there's even the possibility that Wallinder and/ or Johansson is ready for NHL ice time? So at least ONE of those two needs to be moved... IMO).

There are extra salary savings that can be had between RFA's and too many defenseman...

I think we have room to chase a Lindholm, who, along with Kasper and Mazur, replace 3 of the forwards that we lose in the offseason. Also... I'll just throw this out there... Danielson is looking "SHARP!" so I believe he also has a real shot at making the 2024 roster.

Lots of kids.

Some high-end veteran help would be great to help lead this team into the playoffs.

IMO.

Larkin, plus Lindholm, and Raymond, DeBrincat, Copp, Compher, Mazur, Kasper, POSSIBLY Danielson... I think that's a nice top 9.

Walman-Seider, Edvinsson-Holl, Maatta-Tuomisto, plus Wallinder/ Johansson/ and maybe even Buium waiting in the wings (sorry for the pun) ... That's young. A lot of youth there. But also size, speed & skill on the blue line.

I'm comfortable with going into next year with that.

We may even possibly be able to keep Fischer & Veleno as 4th line guys...

I'll let Yzerman work out the details...

lindholm has had decreasing production every year since he scored 40 goals and he is about to turn 30.  no thanks.

why are you so high on tuomisto?  he seems like trade filler to me.  like sebrango.

Edited April 19 by buddha

[slothfacekilla]

56 minutes ago, buddha said:

bultman's article today made it seem like kane is probably gone and perron will probably stick around.

 

It is a shame Perron is so freaking old, he looked like one of the only players that cared/was playing hard at times during the skid and he actually plays "playoff" type hockey. 

[Shinzaki]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

lindholm has had decreasing production every year since he scored 40 goals and he is about to turn 30.  no thanks.

why are you so high on tuomisto?  he seems like trade filler to me.  like sebrango.

I'm looking forward to seeing Tuomisto this summer in the prospect camps and next fall. He's RH...really big...skates well has a cannon shot and has a bit of an edge. Started the year in Toledo and moved to GR and carved out a bigger role as the season went on.

[gehringer_2]

Just listened to the Yzerman presser. He seemed to want to entertain two contradictory views, the first being that the team had to get better, the other being that he seemed to love all the current players. Not sure that isn't mutually exclusive!

I thought one interesting thing was that at one point Lalonde said they had made significant progress reducing grade A chances against, but OTOH, he went out of his way to praise the goaltending. I guess it's just good politics since goalies are hard to come by in recent years and you don't want to prejudice you case with any goalie you might need to bring back, but it seems undeniable that if grade A chances were down and goals against weren't your goaltending could be better. Maybe since they know they're not likely to make any moves for a goalie, the best thing is to not to knock the current crew. Yzerman seemed to be putting Cossa back at GR next season-though at this point we expect him to talk like that.

I think based on the way Yzerman hit the issue of poor defense by forwards, Lalonde has his work cut out. He has to get the forwards to play harder/more effectively in their own end. 

[buddha]

i thought half of the point of compher and copp was they were good defensive forwards?

[1984Echoes]

3 hours ago, slothfacekilla said:

Chasing and paying for past production is the easiest way to give out a bad contract.  This is a guy who has scored 20+ goals 4 seasons out of his 11 seasons yet you expect him to be the guy who pots 40 goals / is a 30 goal scorer?  He's scored 30 goals once in his career.  I'm not willing to make that bet personally but I can see why someone might want to chase the name recognition.  I'm not saying he's a bad player, but there's a reason he's going to be available.

So yes... I get that. 

It's definitely a risk... but a couple things:

1) When we signed Perron at 34, wasn't that chasing past production? Petry at 35?

2) He has a higher level of capability than Sprong or Perron. And it's not even close.

3) He also has more ability than Copp or Compher. They've never produced as he has, and they have never played at his level. But all 3 of those guys are the same age: 29. And Yzerman signed Copp and Compher... As far as I'm concerned... Lindholm is next. Or should be.

4) We're letting go of (most likely) Reimer 36, Kane 35, Perron 35, Gost 30... I think we need to replace that veteran leadership... with Lindholm.

 

I'll be more blunt: This offseason, for me... It's Lindholm or BUST!!!

[slothfacekilla]

 

I'm excited to see Johansson, I wouldn't mind finding a trade for Berggren...

Johansson is playing with Edvinsson on the top pair tonight for GR, I thought I posted the lineup somewhere but I guess not

[slothfacekilla]

46 minutes ago, buddha said:

i thought half of the point of compher and copp was they were good defensive forwards?

Ya and Copp admitted to the media that the coaching staff asked him to basically play super defensively last season.  I think their big issue is on the wing though.  DeBrincat isn't adding much defense, Raymond tries hard but isn't very big, Perron is pretty slow, Kane was Kane, and we don't even have a true checking fourth line because Sprong is Sprong.  Fabbri also tries hard but isn't very big. 

[gehringer_2]

51 minutes ago, buddha said:

i thought half of the point of compher and copp was they were good defensive forwards?

Compher can forecheck, the only thing I've seen Copp do on defense is get caught up ice. 

I see it as one of maybe three things. 1) the wingers know they are slower than the opponent with possession so won't challenge because they are scared of ending up completely out of the play 2) they are being coached not to commit because the coach believes #1 is true whether or not it is 3) they just don't have the heart in their game or physical stamina to play hard at the boards on D.

Take your pick.

EDIT: I agree Fabri tries hard but his anticipation is poor - he just ends up chasing plays mostly.

Edited April 20 by gehringer_2

[slothfacekilla]

5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

EDIT: I agree Fabri tries hard but his anticipation is poor - he just ends up chasing plays mostly.

Something I notice Joe Veleno doing a lot too

[1984Echoes]

2 hours ago, buddha said:

... why are you so high on tuomisto?  he seems like trade filler to me.  like sebrango.

Sebrango to me was always a "try-hard" guy. I never saw why the Org was high on him but, whatever... I don't think Tuomisto is in the same boat as Sebrango. Not even close.

First off: not only was Sebrango a "try-hard" guy, he was a left shot. How was he possibly going to squeeze onto the Detroit roster? Again... I just never saw that, at all.

Tuomisto's competition, as a right shot: Jeff Petry (36) and Justin Holl (32). The door is... ever so slightly, open for a right shot D to make the roster.

Tuomisto is 23, a 6' 5" hard-hitting D'man (from scout reports as much as I can gather), not a great skater but passable, and a nasty hard shot that would fit on a PP2.

I'm not SO HIGH on Tuomisto... but I would say that I am high enough on him to want to save salary, remove Holl and/or Petry, and throw him out there, at least as a 3rd pairing, to see if he can stick. I think he most likely would stick... but where he ends up at (#2 or #3 pairing, or back at Grand Rapids...) is an unknown to me. But I absolutely believe that he would not be worse than Petry or Holl.