buddha Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 30 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Red Wings sign Johansson to a 1-year 2-way contract: https://www.nhl.com/redwings/news/red-wings-sign-defenseman-albert-johansson-to-one-year-contract-extension Red Wings sign defenseman Albert Johansson to one-year contract extension 2019 Second-round pick has skated in 119 AHL games with Grand Rapids I don't get the 2-way... they can't send him to Grand Rapids because they'll lose him. So exactly how's that 2-way gonna work? Also... the extra defenseman that needs to be moved to make room on the roster is Chiarot, not Holl. He's the most expensive LH'ed D'man and both Johansson and Edvinsson are LH'ed. He's old, getting older, and I don't trust him in 2024 to not revert to his ****ty 2022 season. I'd rather hang onto Maatta as a cheaper, younger, more effective LH'ed depth D'man. And I'd rather hang onto Holl for the same reason as a RH'ed depth D'Man. Just my 2 cents. the wings are a small team that gets pushed around. youre not getting rid of your most physical defenseman. holl should be bought out. realize you made a mistake. although i doubt they are as lucky with health in defense as they were last year so maybe he actually plays 10 games this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 (edited) 11 minutes ago, buddha said: the wings are a small team that gets pushed around. youre not getting rid of your most physical defenseman. This is true, but the Wings are also slow, and Chiarot isn't likely to be any faster next season so I'm not that wedded to his size if SY replaces it with more closing speed and at least reasonable strength. It's a trade-off - you have to be able to stand your ground but OTOH, it doesn't matter if you can win an engagement if you can't get to it. Edited June 20 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothfacekilla Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 (edited) I thought Chiarot played fairly well last season, much more so than Maata who I thought looked awful last season. I would much rather keep Chiarot over Maata personally especially since Chiarot handles a lot of the tougher PK minutes. I hope they can ship Maata off for literally anything as I don't trust him at all after last season. Two way deal is if he doesn't look like a NHL player he'll make less money in the AHL, probably just a cover your ass for the worst outcome type of thing. The player didn't really have any leverage here so you might as well. edit: oh duh, two way contract doesn't count against the offseason cap since he hasn't played a NHL game. So gives them a little wiggle room if they want it. Edited June 20 by slothfacekilla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 37 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said: I thought Chiarot played fairly well last season, much more so than Maata who I thought looked awful last season. I would much rather keep Chiarot over Maata personally especially since Chiarot handles a lot of the tougher PK minutes. I hope they can ship Maata off for literally anything as I don't trust him at all after last season. Two way deal is if he doesn't look like a NHL player he'll make less money in the AHL, probably just a cover your ass for the worst outcome type of thing. The player didn't really have any leverage here so you might as well. edit: oh duh, two way contract doesn't count against the offseason cap since he hasn't played a NHL game. So gives them a little wiggle room if they want it. I thought the gulf between Moritz and the next Dman was a lot bigger than between the whole remaining crew. They'd clearly lost confidence in Holl. Among those who played regularly I though Petry was the biggest liability. I guess it depends on how you look at it. Petry didn't make as many mistakes as the others, but to my eye he didn't make many positive plays either. Coaches tend to focus on mistakes, which is understandable, so Petry was easy to 'trust', but they need more plus play to get out of their own end. Hopefully adding Edvinsson and Johansson should given them a little more match up flexibility so maybe all the non-Seider Dmen get exposed a little less. And in any case, as has been beaten to death, a lot the Wings defensive problem is also useless forwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 How many young defenseman can you play in your top 6 and expect to be in the playoff hunt? It’s one thing to throw these guys to the wolves with a rebuilding team languishing at the bottom of the table but that isn’t the expectation anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 johansson is ollie maata, only younger. so they can get rid of maata if they want. as long as chairot isnt playing on the first line, he's more than fine. he's got an A on his chest for a reason. he's a veteran, he's physical, he's not a bad player. he's just not a top line player. chairot in the 2nd pair and petry in the 3rd is fine. its just when they get moved up that you see them exposed. if you think edvinsson is ready to be dman #1b to seider's 1a, then you should deal walman. he'll get a return on investment. holl will likely require you to give up assets or take a bad contract back (maybe we can call washington?), maata gets you nothing. walman gets you a good player or prospect. but it mean you have to replace walman AND ghost, which is probably too much for management to take. again, this year is the bridge year. next year they should be looking to add a big name and compete for playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 I see it as: 1st pair: LHD Walman - RHD Seider 2nd pair: LHD Edvinsson - RHD Petry (Petry doesn't belong here, but he's a vet to pair with the kid... and if Simon can move to the 1st pair then it's Walman + ... still Petry?). Can't we find a better 2nd pair RHD? Petry ain't it. Only because Simon is breaking into full-time NHL play... 3rd pair - situational. Could be Chiarot, Johansson, Maatta, Gost (will Stevie be able to re-sign him...?), Holl on the right side... Mix and match. But nothing inspiring here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 PS: Can Tuomisto make the jump? If yes, one of Petry or Holl could definitely be moved, no questions asked. Tuomisto could be 3rd or 2nd pairing, depending on how he performs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanTigersFan Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 With all this talk about who pairs where and what not, help an illiterate hockey fan out. Who on our team is absolute slam dunk keepers. From my take its: Dylan Larken Seider Raymond Edvinson And from my understanding only Seider and Raymond are TRUE Superstars. I guess Larkin's star isn't nearly as shiny as he once was thought but still a good player. Is Edvinsson in the same caliber as Seider? Beyond those four, is there really any one else that is "untouchable" as far as the roster goes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 13 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: I see it as: 1st pair: LHD Walman - RHD Seider 2nd pair: LHD Edvinsson - RHD Petry (Petry doesn't belong here, but he's a vet to pair with the kid... and if Simon can move to the 1st pair then it's Walman + ... still Petry?). Can't we find a better 2nd pair RHD? Petry ain't it. Only because Simon is breaking into full-time NHL play... 3rd pair - situational. Could be Chiarot, Johansson, Maatta, Gost (will Stevie be able to re-sign him...?), Holl on the right side... Mix and match. But nothing inspiring here. Unless SY pulls a rabbit out of his hat a L-L pairing seems inevitable. Better to make the best of it than play a terrible player just because of his handedness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 12 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Unless SY pulls a rabbit out of his hat a L-L pairing seems inevitable. Better to make the best of it than play a terrible player just because of his handedness. But I think the Edvinsson-Petry pairing makes sense... unless Holl improves enough to surpass Petry. I think Simon-LHD-veteran-RHD makes the most sense here. For Edvinsson's sake. That leaves the 3rd pairing... In which I agree 100%. That can be mix and match any which way coach wants to do this. Also, PP and PK I don't care about handedness... Just make it work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 (edited) 24 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: But I think the Edvinsson-Petry pairing makes sense... unless Holl improves enough to surpass Petry. I think Simon-LHD-veteran-RHD makes the most sense here. For Edvinsson's sake. That leaves the 3rd pairing... In which I agree 100%. That can be mix and match any which way coach wants to do this. Also, PP and PK I don't care about handedness... Just make it work. well, the question is do you want someone out there to mentor Edvinsson, or someone who can play well enough opposite him for them to both succeed? I may be on an island on this one but I thought Petry was really bad last year and would really rather not see him back at all. But YMMV. Edited June 20 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: well, the question is do you want someone out there to mentor Edvinsson, or someone who can play well enough opposite him for them to both succeed? I may be on an island on this one but I thought Petry was really bad last year and would really rather not see him back at all. But YMMV. I see Chiarot as worse. That leaves Holl? Or you can put another lefty out there but who is good enough on this team to be a 2nd pair? Lefty or righty? That's why I've wanted a better pairing for Edvinsson since the last trade deadline or even before that. I anticipated him coming up and pairing with... hot garbage? I'll state it flat out: I would rather Tuomisto come up and be 2nd pair with Simon. Big, fast, hits, and is a defensive defenseman. But he's not a vet and will make as many rookie mistakes as Simon. Petry, Holl, Maatta, Tuomisto, Johansson, or find another D'man to pair up with him. I do NOT think you can just throw him out on the 1st pair with Seider. So it's sort of a small box, with only bad, or worse, options. Which option would you choose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: well, the question is do you want someone out there to mentor Edvinsson, or someone who can play well enough opposite him for them to both succeed? I may be on an island on this one but I thought Petry was really bad last year and would really rather not see him back at all. But YMMV. PS: I don't like Petry either. He's past his useful shelf life. Just another bad pairing option for Simon. I wish we could do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) 59 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: I see Chiarot as worse. That leaves Holl? Or you can put another lefty out there but who is good enough on this team to be a 2nd pair? Lefty or righty? That's why I've wanted a better pairing for Edvinsson since the last trade deadline or even before that. I anticipated him coming up and pairing with... hot garbage? I'll state it flat out: I would rather Tuomisto come up and be 2nd pair with Simon. Big, fast, hits, and is a defensive defenseman. But he's not a vet and will make as many rookie mistakes as Simon. Petry, Holl, Maatta, Tuomisto, Johansson, or find another D'man to pair up with him. I do NOT think you can just throw him out on the 1st pair with Seider. So it's sort of a small box, with only bad, or worse, options. Which option would you choose? i guess LaLonde has to decide whether he wants Edvinsson to have the benefit of a 'matched' pairing. If the answer is yes you put him with Seider, not Holl or Petry. One reason not to is that I think Edvinsson will end up on the 2nd PP unit, so that pairing would break down on the PP. if you are going to play two Left shots together, it's either Simon plus Walman or Chiarot. I think I go with Chiarot as Walman's speed would be needed less with Simon's ability to command space, plus the two big guys would be a load to play against, and Walman and Seider were a good 1st pair together. Or it could always be someone they haven't acquired yet. And this ignores that once they get to camp there might be a pairing that just ends up with good chemistry, which probably trump most other considerations. Edited June 21 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 all rookies are shiny new toys because we havent seen them play yet. be careful how many rookies you want in the lineup. if youre playing that many rookies in defense then youre battling montreal and columbus for the right to pick 5th next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordstanley Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothfacekilla Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 1 hour ago, lordstanley said: It sounded like they are rolling with Lyon and Husso and want to add a third goalie to either GR or NHL roster to supplement those two. I also got the impression they aren't going to be very active in free agency (and the Seider/Raymond deals won't be done by then) but Yzerman doesn't usually reveal much concrete info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 31 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said: It sounded like they are rolling with Lyon and Husso and want to add a third goalie to either GR or NHL roster to supplement those two. I also got the impression they aren't going to be very active in free agency (and the Seider/Raymond deals won't be done by then) but Yzerman doesn't usually reveal much concrete info. I would prefer it be in GR because then that means Cossa is the 3rd goalie and called up whenever necessary. A good way to get his feet wet with some experience in NHL without putting a huge load on his shoulders if he's not quite ready yet. Even if he were the 2nd goalie, backup, in Detroit, that would mean 20+ games (or so) almost guaranteed. As 3rd goalie they can manage in much smaller doses. And they've had backups in GR recently that they could also call up as a 3rd goalie, giving options to further manage Cossa' potential NHL time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothfacekilla Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 What I think they'll do and what I think is a good plan is Cossa getting a bulk of the starts in AHL (i.e. true workhorse goaltending) to see how he holds up and he gets called up for a couple cups of coffee in the NHL if needed. I want to see him stretched out in the AHL vs a handful of backup NHL games to see how it goes personally, but it isn't the only option or "right" option. It slides his ELC if he doesn't play many games as well. But who knows what Yzerman is truly thinking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 1 minute ago, slothfacekilla said: What I think they'll do and what I think is a good plan is Cossa getting a bulk of the starts in AHL (i.e. true workhorse goaltending) to see how he holds up and he gets called up for a couple cups of coffee in the NHL if needed... Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 i'm fine with husso and lyon this year. the other scenario is to ltir or buyout husso. i'd rather see if he can play first. but i'm not seeing the wings aa playoff contenders this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 I wonder who he's referring to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Had this been disclosed? https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/40401837/dylan-larkin-recovering-surgery-late-season-injury It's like a culture shock the way the NHL conceals/obfuscates injuries compared to other sports. I understand the reason but it's still weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 prashanth's "if i were steve yzerman" piece is out today. tl;dr version: sit tight this year and make your big splash in free agency after next year or the year after. draft: michael brandsdegg nygard. re-signings: raymond: 8x$8.25 seider: 3x$6 veleno: 1x$1.3 mcissac: released perron: 1x$2 fischer: 1x$1.2 trades: berggren/holl to utah for edmonton's 2024 3rd round pick. maata to san jose for its 2025 4th round pick. free agent signings: marchessault: 3x$7 roy: 5x$5.6 martin jones (goalie): 1×$925k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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