5/4/24 1:10PM Tigers @ Yankees

[Tiger337]

  On 5/4/2024 at 6:09 PM, 1984Echoes said:

PS:

With no runners: .224/.366/.500 = .866

With runners on: .378/.455/.595 = 1.050

 

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Small sample size. Line-ups should not depend on small sample sizes.  

[gehringer_2]

  On 5/4/2024 at 6:09 PM, Tiger337 said:

I think he was referring to this:

"I prefer the traditional location for the best hitter in the lineup: #3 spot."

That has been shown statistically to be a less optimal choice that the best hitter batting first or second. It's certainly possible that some line-ups could benefit from the best hitter batting third depending on the team personnel, but having your best hitter third is not a great idea in general.  

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Maybe you dive deeper into the def of "best hitter". If I have two 850 OPS guys and one has a 20% walk rate and and a low ISO and the other doesn't walk but has a high ISO, I don't think you treat them the same in the order.

[Dtrain72]

  On 5/4/2024 at 6:11 PM, AZTigersfan said:

So patience is subjective and not universal. Ok

 

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That doesnt even make sense in the context of Tork v Mize and where their careers are, but you do you 🤷‍♂️

[1984Echoes]

This:

  On 5/4/2024 at 6:09 PM, Tiger337 said:

.... It's certainly possible that some line-ups could benefit from the best hitter batting third depending on the team personnel, but ...

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Is more important to me than this:

  On 5/4/2024 at 6:09 PM, Tiger337 said:

... best hitter in the lineup: #3 spot." That has been shown statistically to be a less optimal choice that the best hitter batting first or second. ... having your best hitter third is not a great idea in general.  

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Sometimes, stats need to be tossed because a team is not performing according to stats, but based on personnel.

Is Hinch so stat-inflexible that he cannot recognize that this team has a run-scoring problem?

 

[Tiger337]

  On 5/4/2024 at 6:12 PM, gehringer_2 said:

Maybe you dive deeper into the def of "best hitter". If I have two 850 OPS guys and one has a 20% walk rate and and a low ISO and the other doesn't walk but has a high ISO, I don't think you treat them the same in the order.

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If you have two .850 OPS guys as your best hitters over the course of a season, then they are approximately equally good hitters.  You'd probably put them batting #1 and #2 with the better on base guy leading off.  

[Sports_Freak]

  On 5/4/2024 at 6:11 PM, AZTigersfan said:

So patience is subjective and not universal. Ok

 

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Some people say it takes a year to come back from TJ surgery but several more months to be all the way back. I don't know if Mize had TJ surgery or not but he's doing much better at his job than Tork, who wasn't injured, is at his job.

[1984Echoes]

  On 5/4/2024 at 6:12 PM, Tiger337 said:

Small sample size. Line-ups should not depend on small sample sizes.  

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I get that...

But the bottom line to me is I want runners on in front of our best hitter.

I added to the above: Greene has 6 RBI's with no runners. 6 solo HR's

And 9 RBI's with runners on: 1 HR.

My bottom line sticks. With me. I want OBP guys in front of him in the #1 and 2 spots.

Personal preference.

[gehringer_2]

  On 5/4/2024 at 6:08 PM, Dtrain72 said:

Keith did a thing!

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He was over anxious at 2-0 and swung at ball 3 and 4, but  recovered to get the run in.

[Sports_Freak]

Just when you think you can get out, they drag you back in. 😆

[Sports_Freak]

I think most of us agree that Greene is pretty good at the game of baseball.

[oblong]

  On 5/4/2024 at 5:55 PM, Sports_Freak said:

How are you watching Bally, on a PC? The FF doesn't work very well on my Roku...it jumps all the way to live when trying to FF thru commercials. I watch on my PC now and it works pretty good.

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I just put the app on my smart TV and logged in. I have a Samsung. 

[gehringer_2]

  On 5/4/2024 at 6:16 PM, Tiger337 said:

If you have two .850 OPS guys as your best hitters over the course of a season, then they are approximately equally good hitters.  You'd probably put them batting #1 and #2 with the better on base guy leading off.  

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right. Or think about Cabrera in his prime. Without looking - I'll take a guess that his OPS - or at least his ISO, in his good years with RISC might actually have been lower, because he became a singles hitter with a man at 2nd. But his RBI percentage was always one of of highest in the league - so numbers might tell a more complex story than the simplest view of them.

Edited May 4, 2024 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

  On 5/4/2024 at 6:15 PM, 1984Echoes said:

This:

 

Is more important to me than this:

Sometimes, stats need to be tossed because a team is not performing according to stats, but based on personnel.

Is Hinch so stat-inflexible that he cannot recognize that this team has a run-scoring problem?

 

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Hinch knows they have a run scoring problem.  That is due to having ****ty hitters.  You can line them up anyway you want and they still are not going to score runs they way they have performed so far.  He is lining hitters up according to how he thinks they will perform long term based mostly (I assume) on statistical projections. He's not going to base his line-up on short-term cold or hot streaks which could end any day.  He didn't have Tork near the top of the order because he expected him to suck.  He probably had him there based on how he hit at the end of last season.  That wasn't working, so he moved him down after a period of time.  

 

[Tiger337]

  On 5/4/2024 at 6:17 PM, 1984Echoes said:

I get that...

But the bottom line to me is I want runners on in front of our best hitter.

I added to the above: Greene has 6 RBI's with no runners. 6 solo HR's

And 9 RBI's with runners on: 1 HR.

My bottom line sticks. With me. I want OBP guys in front of him in the #1 and 2 spots.

Personal preference.

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Well, it would be nice if they had Greene in front of him!

[gehringer_2]

  On 5/4/2024 at 6:27 PM, Tiger337 said:

Hinch knows they have a run scoring problem.  That is due to having ****ty hitters.  You can line them up anyway you want and they still are not going to score runs they way they have performed so far.  He is lining hitters up according to how he thinks they will perform long term based mostly (I assume) on statistical projections. He's not going to base his line-up on short-term cold or hot streaks which could end any day.  He didn't have Tork near the top of the order because he expected him to suck.  He probably had him there based on how he hit at the end of last season.  That wasn't working, so he moved him down after a period of time.  

 

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and what do you do with Perez? The odds are he comes back to earth at some point and it may a crash. You just sort of have to guess where to put him and for how long. Lineups are a lot of semi-guided guesswork.

BTW, Wenceel was struck out twice in his last 24 AB! 

Edited May 4, 2024 by gehringer_2

[AZTigersfan]

  On 5/4/2024 at 6:17 PM, Sports_Freak said:

Some people say it takes a year to come back from TJ surgery but several more months to be all the way back. I don't know if Mize had TJ surgery or not but he's doing much better at his job than Tork, who wasn't injured, is at his job.

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Some say availability is your best ability. I understand he’s been hurt, but that’s just it. He’s been out, not helping the team. Even when he’s been in he’s not played like a 1:1, which apparently is a thing here. I just find it interesting is all. I’m rooting for them both to live up to their potential but it’s quite apparent that others have made up their minds and are dug in as far as Tork goes. 

[1984Echoes]

  On 5/4/2024 at 6:27 PM, Tiger337 said:

.... He's not going to base his line-up on short-term cold or hot streaks which could end any day.  He didn't have Tork near the top of the order because he expected him to suck.  He probably had him there based on how he hit at the end of last season.  That wasn't working, so he moved him down after a period of time.  

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You just refuted yourself in the same post.

Obviously, he IS basing lineup decisions on short-term numbers.

Tell me again, why is Wenceel batting 3rd today?

And Tork 7th?

[Sports_Freak]

  On 5/4/2024 at 6:24 PM, oblong said:

I just put the app on my smart TV and logged in. I have a Samsung. 

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Cool. How do you like it? I get a lot of this every half inning;

[1984Echoes]

  On 5/4/2024 at 6:29 PM, Tiger337 said:

Well, it would be nice if they had Greene in front of him!

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How about JUST guys who can actually get on base in front of him...

You know, like Canha and Perez instead of Meadows and Kelly/ Rogers.

[Tigermojo]

Angels had that exact problem when Trout was healthy and hitting home runs. Nobody on base in front of him.

[gehringer_2]

LOL - make that 3K in 25 AB for Wenceel.

[Sports_Freak]

  On 5/4/2024 at 6:32 PM, AZTigersfan said:

Some say availability is your best ability. I understand he’s been hurt, but that’s just it. He’s been out, not helping the team. Even when he’s been in he’s not played like a 1:1, which apparently is a thing here. I just find it interesting is all. I’m rooting for them both to live up to their potential but it’s quite apparent that others have made up their minds and are dug in as far as Tork goes. 

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If Mize was doing as poorly as Tork, he would have a 6.9 ERA and walking every other hitter. He's fine, no reason to distract from the main issue...Tork is a major bust...😆

[Tiger337]

  On 5/4/2024 at 6:33 PM, 1984Echoes said:

How about JUST guys who can actually get on base in front of him...

You know, like Canha and Perez instead of Meadows and Kelly/ Rogers.

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I don't know how much Perez can get on base long term.  He has potential, but he wasn't doing it in AAA early this year so this could just be a hot streak.  Everybody got all excited about Meadows last season and now look at him.   

[Sports_Freak]

  On 5/4/2024 at 6:07 PM, 1984Echoes said:

He actually has 37 AB's with men on versus 76 without...

Which is shocking to me... I didn't think he was anywhere near that ratio...

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In the leadoff spot? If so, that does seem high.

[chasfh]

  On 5/4/2024 at 6:32 PM, Sports_Freak said:

Cool. How do you like it? I get a lot of this every half inning;

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I've started seeing that on MLB.tv, I couldn't be more thrilled, and I hope it never changes back to a rotation of the same four commercial spots running throughout the game.