Sports_Freak Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 20 minutes ago, holygoat said: I think it's fair. Look, they built a playoff-worthy pitching staff and were content to go into the season with a lineup of mostly unproven rookies and journeymen. Fans have a right to be irritated. I'd love to see a DD-type blockbuster where we move some of our vaunted minor league assets for a proven MLB stud, but I don't know that either Ilitch or Harris have that in them. Scott Harris was hired 2 years ago this September. Give the guy at least 5 years to build a team. It makes sense that they didn't sign an expensive hitter, we're more then one player away. We need more hitting, that should be obvious to everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holygoat Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 16 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: Scott Harris was hired 2 years ago this September. Give the guy at least 5 years to build a team. It makes sense that they didn't sign an expensive hitter, we're more then one player away. We need more hitting, that should be obvious to everyone. At least five years? 🤣 Nah, bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 9 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: The odds...once Javy got thrown out at 2nd base, the Tiger odds of winning went way down. If you believe in that sort of thing. Sure, the odds go down. They don't go down to zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 8 hours ago, holygoat said: At least five years? 🤣 Nah, bro. Five years is too long. There's room to add salary (although it wasn't a good free agent offseason). The pitching is already competitive. There are a few hitters to work with currently. I can understand going through some of the prospects to see what's there. But at some point they need to improve the offense, and it shouldn't take five years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 9 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: Just stop leading Greene off...😁😁 Greene is still young and at the beginning of his career. But his resume is actually worse with runners in scoring position than not. Seems contrary to the rest of the league, and I wouldn't necessarily try to put him into a position where he can avoid runners in scoring position. But I'm comfortable with him in the top third of the order, leadoff included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 1 hour ago, casimir said: Five years is too long. There's room to add salary (although it wasn't a good free agent offseason). The pitching is already competitive. There are a few hitters to work with currently. I can understand going through some of the prospects to see what's there. But at some point they need to improve the offense, and it shouldn't take five years. He's had one draft. We have no idea about salary restraints he's working with. Patience, the Tigers are already better than they were when he arrived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 I'm willing to bet the Pitch staff will not even close to the same in five years ... if your not trying to competive in the next few years your wasting good pitching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 The team is precisely where I thought they would be... What was the conventional wisdom going in? At best a few games over .500 and bank on a weak division. It's frustrating because it doesn't seem to be asking for a lot to have expected a much better record if just a few guys had gotten a few more key hits. But... maybe the hitters just aren't that good and the way you find that out is to let them play. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 10 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: Scott Harris was hired 2 years ago this September. Give the guy at least 5 years to build a team. It makes sense that they didn't sign an expensive hitter, we're more then one player away. We need more hitting, that should be obvious to everyone. Do not really agree (just my opinion). Yes, true to turn around the infrastructure ex facilities, player development, scouting, tech used, etc. Not true for the MLB team. He has inherited 'some' talent. He has in place good pitching (though there will be some injuries, of course to ALL teams). Too me SHarris needs to show that he can acquire a strong bat or two via trade or FA. This has nothing to do with how many years on the job. Regardless of 1 year or 5, he needs to show that 'he can make a deal, that he has the ability and/or the art of negotiating a solid deal for a hitter or two'... Yes, scouting has to help and say 'here is a list' - but it does not take 5 years to do that. He could do that anytime between now and say 1-2 years - my Q is, like DD could or unlike AA could not - can SHarris do this? The Tigers may or may not contend this year. IMHO, they could. However, if SHarris does not have the ability to make 'some' things happen, it will not matter if it this year (he can swing a trade at anytime) or in 5 years. Every GM (this includes JGreenberg) /CEO has to have the ability to negotiate some solid deals - or they will simply be short lived in that position (even if after 5 years ex AA, yet he did have strengths in other areas). If the man in charge can show that he can negotiate deals, ex like DD, they will get several career chances either with one or several organizations. Quite simple really. We shall see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 16 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: But the stats.... Yes, 21st century managers use advanced stats. That shipped sailed a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 44 minutes ago, Toddwert said: I'm willing to bet the Pitch staff will not even close to the same in five years ... if your not trying to competive in the next few years your wasting good pitching They might still be good because the Harris and Hinch administration seems to be skilled at acquiring and getting the most out of their pitchng. I agree that pitching staffs are fleeting though and when you have a good one, you need to try to take advantage of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said: He's had one draft. We have no idea about salary restraints he's working with. Patience, the Tigers are already better than they were when he arrived. I don't think anyone is saying the Tigers aren't better now than when Harris arrived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 (edited) 28 minutes ago, alex said: Too me SHarris needs to show that he can acquire a strong bat or two via trade or FA. This has nothing to do with how many years on the job. Regardless of 1 year or 5, he needs to show that 'he can make a deal, that he has the ability and/or the art of negotiating a solid deal for a hitter or two'... Yes, scouting has to help and say 'here is a list' - but it does not take 5 years to do that. He could do that anytime between now and say 1-2 years - my Q is, like DD could or unlike AA could not - can SHarris do this? Well, he did trade for Canha. If not a strong bat, certainly an above league average bat. We can go through the lineup and see the offensive deficiency so far this season is the IF (save for Vierling) and catcher. The OF/DH/3B has been around or above career OPS on an individual basis (and we can debate CF with Meadows/Perez as inconclusive, that's fine). But Baez has been abysmal at the plate. Torkelson seems to have regressed. Keith has scuffled more than expected. I think the catching duo is below .600 OPS. Where would this team be with nominal production at those positions? Edited May 9 by casimir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 (edited) 2 hours ago, oblong said: The team is precisely where I thought they would be... I would say yes and no. I didn't expect Olsen and Flaherty to be this good - didn't expect Lange to pretty much straighten out, but I also didn't expect the hitting to come out of the gate dead *again*. So therein lies the frustration - knowing that they are exceeding expectation on the mound and that if they were only meeting expectations in the batter's box they'd be pretty good. And TBF, it's not even that many guys - it's primarily Catcher, Javy, Torkelson, Keith and Meadows - and McKinstry is also down in the power dept. Perez has replaced Meadows, and so far is producing. As I've noted, Keith is having decent ABs and terrible BaBIP luck so I"m OK letting that play out more. So it comes down to what to do about Torkelson, Javy and the Catchers. Possible strategies? I'd like to see Jake get more AB because he seems to hit better when he plays more regularly and Kelly isn't giving us anything anyway, but that is no sure thing. With Torkelson? I don't know what they are asking him to do - but if it were me I'd tell him I was going to fine him every time he puts a ball to the left of the 3B whether it's a double or not until he starts using the whole field (and whole K zone) again. I don't know what else there is to do - he's totally frustrating right now with his pull craziness. It's easy to say send him down but they need him producing. They can start giving Canha PT at 1B but there is no high power roster replacement waiting at Toledo for 1B. And unfortunately the same is true at SS. I don't want to have to trust McKinstry's glove - and he's not hitting a lot either, and there isn't any obvious SS candidate available. So stuck. If they really wanted to take a flyer out of the box - they could let Perez try going back to SS. Maybe having made the big leagues he'll be over his throwing nerves. A real long shot but Javy is really looking cooked as a hitter and they are going to be forced to try something. Edited May 9 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 The pitching and Greene are better than expected and the hitting is worse. There are still a lot of question marks on the team. The durability of the staff is an issue because of past injuries and because of injuries their potential workload is also an issue. How many innings will the young starters be able to handle? The hitters are young and unproven with minimal experience. The depth looks pretty good though with multiple players having some potential. Harris needs to continue adding to that depth to create competition and protect against injury and lack of performance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 15 hours ago, Tigermojo said: New Have a Seat podcast tomorrow. I finally listened to the AJ Hinch podcast with these guys. Excellent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 4 minutes ago, 1776 said: I finally listened to the AJ Hinch podcast with these guys. Excellent. I started it Wed morning, then after yesterday's game I just wasn't in the mood to hear banter... but I did enjoy what I heard so far. I think that podcast is going to be a lot of fun. I suspect we'll get new episodes every few weeks? I can't see them being able to do it every week, and that's ok. You don't want things to get stale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 Canha is a nice 35 year old hitter. But he was supposed to complement a team with emerging young hitters. He isn't a guy you are keeping around beyond another year. It still comes down to the development of the young 'core' hitters on the current roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 (edited) 4 minutes ago, kdog said: Canha is a nice 35 year old hitter. But he was supposed to complement a team with emerging young hitters. He isn't a guy you are keeping around beyond another year. It still comes down to the development of the young 'core' hitters on the current roster. Sadly, if it was hoped his approach would rub off on Torkelson it's been a fail so far. Edited May 9 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 13 minutes ago, oblong said: I started it Wed morning, then after yesterday's game I just wasn't in the mood to hear banter... but I did enjoy what I heard so far. I think that podcast is going to be a lot of fun. I suspect we'll get new episodes every few weeks? I can't see them being able to do it every week, and that's ok. You don't want things to get stale. Don’t hold me to it but I believe they’re shooting for one podcast every two weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 (edited) Olson has been awesome but unfortunately to no fault of his own we are 1-6 in his starts so really even if he was terrible it wouldn't matter much in terms of wins and losses. Edited May 9 by RandyMarsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 4 hours ago, casimir said: I don't think anyone is saying the Tigers aren't better now than when Harris arrived. There's people calling for his head after just 1 1/2 years? One draft? Get back to me in 3 more years. We can't be firing our GM every two years. And I thought I was impatient... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 18 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: There's people calling for his head after just 1 1/2 years? One draft? Get back to me in 3 more years. We can't be firing our GM every two years. And I thought I was impatient... On my thinking, by no means 'fire' the guy. However, I am very curious if he can/has the ability to make a deal or two here during the next say 18 months to acquire 1-2 quality hitter(s). A value for value deal and/or simply something that is more risky. If he cannot do that, than he is NOT the right person for the job. IMHO, its that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 one person on twitter softened his tone quite a bit once he got a podcast gig and talked to the guy once. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 Is calling for Harris's head a thing on Twitter? I didn't know that... (I don't use twitter so I wouldn't...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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