5/15/24 1:10PM Marlins @ Tigers

[oblong]

Gibby retired the same day the team traded Mike Henneman.  I think he'd just had enough.  He wasn't happy with the organization.  They traded David Wells a few days prior.  I remember listening to WDFN, Jamie and Gregg, and they were interviewing a Tiger, maybe John Flaherty, and right in the middle they say something like "Uh... Kirk Gibson retired?..." and Flaherty didn't know and he just said he had to get off the phone.

 

[gehringer_2]

38 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

Well I have supported Baez more than almost anyone on this board but it has reached a boiling point. But I still wouldn't release him until we have an acceptable replacement player. You can not expect an owner to eat 85 million dollars with the chance he plays better someplace else or worse harms your team in the process. However if Baez has "checked out" then you are forced into corner. Do you think Baez has given up ?

I think he's trying to do what they want him to in his ABs - evidenced that the K's are down - he may even believe in trying to do what they are telling him, he just can't make it work. 

 

Edited May 16 by gehringer_2

[casimir]

9 minutes ago, oblong said:

Gibby retired the same day the team traded Mike Henneman.  I think he'd just had enough.  He wasn't happy with the organization.  They traded David Wells a few days prior.  I remember listening to WDFN, Jamie and Gregg, and they were interviewing a Tiger, maybe John Flaherty, and right in the middle they say something like "Uh... Kirk Gibson retired?..." and Flaherty didn't know and he just said he had to get off the phone.

 

Correct, there were lots of things going on with the team at that time.

Anderson had to convince him to unretire for a second tour in Detroit to begin with.

[oblong]

and remember you had the strike the year before, then the replacement players in camp... 

 

[RatkoVarda]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

At this point I'd release Javy just so he has some shot at saving something of his career somewhere else because there is no hope he turns it around here. It's practically reached the point of cruelty.

one thing that might get Harris in trouble with Ilitch is if Javy is cut and goes elsewhere and rebounds to a 75 OPS+ level. Ilitch would be pissed to pay 75M for that.

[gehringer_2]

3 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

one thing that might get Harris in trouble with Ilitch is if Javy is cut and goes elsewhere and rebounds to a 75 OPS+ level. Ilitch would be pissed to pay 75M for that.

That's true, but on the other hand it *should* piss him off if that happens because it says "you and Hinch screwed up a player I paid good money to get for the team and it took another org to fix him."

If the org believes the current crew are the geniuses that they are given credit to be (and have demonstrated they are with the pitching!) then there should be no fear Javy will suddenly rebound somewhere else, right?

Edited May 16 by gehringer_2

[Tigermojo]

Javy should just agree to go to Florida to work on his game like Abreu did.

There's nothing wrong with sending Keith down to Toledo. It doesn't mean he's a bust. He's 22 and has some things to work on.

[SoCalTiger]

2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

I think he's trying to do what they want him to in his ABs - evidenced that the K's are down - he may even believe in trying to do what they are telling him, he just can't make it work. 

 

Well they should stop that. Let him rip. I’ll trade a non existing obp for some slugging. 

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Tigermojo said:

Javy should just agree to go to Florida to work on his game like Abreu did.

There's nothing wrong with sending Keith down to Toledo. It doesn't mean he's a bust. He's 22 and has some things to work on.

I'd stick with Colt another 10 games or so. He's been getting better results in his last 10 and I'd let it ride to see if it continues. If he holds a 600 OPS, which is where he is in May, that's as much as you could expect from any of the current candidates at Toledo. If he slides back down, pull the trigger.

[SoCalTiger]

1 hour ago, Tigermojo said:

Javy should just agree to go to Florida to work on his game like Abreu did.

There's nothing wrong with sending Keith down to Toledo. It doesn't mean he's a bust. He's 22 and has some things to work on.

Javeys to young for the Abreu treatment and who would play shortstop ?

[gehringer_2]

30 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

Well they should stop that. Let him rip. I’ll trade a non existing obp for some slugging. 

according to Tork, the team has a set of things they preach. How can you hold the line if you tell Javy to go ahead and do it his way? Of course to me, having any single approach to hitting for a whole team is a mistake out of the box. Every hitter has different abilities to do different things in the box and likewise different things they will fail at if you ask them to do. If a guy has good pitch recognition but holes in his swing -sure don't swing at what you can't drive - you can afford to get down in the count if you are not so likely to get fooled.  If your pitch recognition is not so good but you have some plate coverage, way better to swing at a FB on the outer third for a single at 0-0 or 0-1 and put in in play than take it, let yourself get in a hole and K or roll over on a breaking ball that fools you. You need your hitters in the box doing what they do best and forget everything else. You'd never ask the average hitter to do what Cabrera did, regularly taking FBs to right and breaking balls to the pull side because most guys simply don't have the pitch recognition or strength to do it. We all understand that - but conceptually the same is true for all hitters - they will all reach their optimum with an approach tailored individually to what they can to. The logic argues there are some hitters you shouldn't ask to take pitches, or tell not to swing out of the zone, or whatever it is, because for some hitter that is what they need to do. So to have a team wide approach in some particular direction sets up some hitters to fail.

Now in 5 years, when they have only drafted or traded for hitters that already fit the mold of hitters that hit like they like, then they will look brilliant, but they will have to pass on a lot of productive players to get there.

Edited May 16 by gehringer_2

[HeyAbbott]

9 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

Javeys to young for the Abreu treatment and who would play shortstop ?

There is no one we have in the org we cannot trade for a replacement level SS?

Edited May 16 by HeyAbbott

[Tigermojo]

15 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I'd stick with Colt another 10 games or so. He's been getting better results in his last 10 and I'd let it ride to see if it continues. If he holds a 600 OPS, which is where he is in May, that's as much as you could expect from any of the current candidates at Toledo. If he slides back down, pull the trigger.

Ibanez has already proven he's better right now. Keith is the future but why not have the best player at each position?

[Tigermojo]

15 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

Javeys to young for the Abreu treatment and who would play shortstop ?

McKinstry until there's a better option or Baez figures something out.

[gehringer_2]

3 minutes ago, Tigermojo said:

Ibanez has already proven he's better right now. Keith is the future but why not have the best player at each position?

I think they believe Colt is close enough to being a better hitter against RHP than Ibanez that it's worth it to give him the rope. For now I'm OK with that. Ask me again in another week. 

[Tigermojo]

2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I think they believe Colt is close enough to being a better hitter against RHP than Ibanez that it's worth it to give him the rope. For now I'm OK with that. Ask me again in another week. 

They should have just sent him down with Meadows because of all the lefties they are facing. That's why I think Harris is too passive and too concerned with contracts and appearances.

[LongLiveMaroth]

So I took a look at Colt's savant page; if you look at his page his expected BA, SLG, and OBA are pretty much league average. He has had some terrible luck with a .206 BABIP. He has a higher than average LA so it's not like he's beating them into the ground. 

 

[SoCalTiger]

3 hours ago, Tigermojo said:

McKinstry until there's a better option or Baez figures something out.

Please no. Ok for a game or two but defensively he’s not a shortstop in my estimation. 

[SoCalTiger]

3 hours ago, HeyAbbott said:

There is no one we have in the org we cannot trade for a replacement level SS?

Probably but until we make that trade it’s Javey 

[SoCalTiger]

3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

according to Tork, the team has a set of things they preach. How can you hold the line if you tell Javy to go ahead and do it his way? Of course to me, having any single approach to hitting for a whole team is a mistake out of the box. Every hitter has different abilities to do different things in the box and likewise different things they will fail at if you ask them to do. If a guy has good pitch recognition but holes in his swing -sure don't swing at what you can't drive - you can afford to get down in the count if you are not so likely to get fooled.  If your pitch recognition is not so good but you have some plate coverage, way better to swing at a FB on the outer third for a single at 0-0 or 0-1 and put in in play than take it, let yourself get in a hole and K or roll over on a breaking ball that fools you. You need your hitters in the box doing what they do best and forget everything else. You'd never ask the average hitter to do what Cabrera did, regularly taking FBs to right and breaking balls to the pull side because most guys simply don't have the pitch recognition or strength to do it. We all understand that - but conceptually the same is true for all hitters - they will all reach their optimum with an approach tailored individually to what they can to. The logic argues there are some hitters you shouldn't ask to take pitches, or tell not to swing out of the zone, or whatever it is, because for some hitter that is what they need to do. So to have a team wide approach in some particular direction sets up some hitters to fail.

Now in 5 years, when they have only drafted or traded for hitters that already fit the mold of hitters that hit like they like, then they will look brilliant, but they will have to pass on a lot of productive players to get there.

All valid and appreciated. But there are exceptions to every rule and what our coaches are doing is not working.  
 

Maybe he just is a National League player? Is that possible. Is there another bad contract we can swap him with ? 

[Tiger337]

41 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

Maybe he just is a National League player? Is that possible. Is there another bad contract we can swap him with ? 

Is there such a thing anymore?  They play by the same rules, every team plays every other team and the AL is no longer superior.     

[SoCalTiger]

8 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Is there such a thing anymore?  They play by the same rules, every team plays every other team and the AL is no longer superior.     

Probably not but the decline is just crazy. 

[gkelly]

22 hours ago, Hongbit said:

Even with free tickets,  it’s near impossible to go Comerica and get the full game experience without spending hundreds.   $16 beers, $7 hot dogs, $7 peanuts.   Don’t even bother walking into the souvenir area.  $35 kids Tiger hats.  It’s stupid expensive.  

You can eat before hand and you don't have to drink a beer.  JS.

[gkelly]

Can you imagine if the Tigers had Manny Ramirez and Vlad Guerrero Sr on this team?  They would probably be benched because they swing at the first pitch too often.  

Hinch wants all these guys to play the same way he did when he was in the majors.  Well, you have succeeded, because none of the current Tigers can hit either.

Or maybe this is part of his punishment for being a scumbag and running the cheating scandal.