5/20/24 7:40PM Tigers @ Royals

[casimir]

9 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

I remember Leyland saying the more pitchers you throw out there, the bigger chance you have of one giving it up.

I also believe in the reliever roulette theory.  

[casimir]

9 hours ago, kdog said:

Bullpen guy who has been really good most of the year getting tattooed...ehh it happens.

 

The question is is this just a singular tattooing or a reverting back to form?

[casimir]

9 hours ago, Hongbit said:

Hockey time

Walleye 4, Mavericks 3.  The series now shifts from Toledo to Kansas City, 2 games to 1 edge for Kansas City.

[casimir]

9 hours ago, kdog said:

By any objective measure, Wentz has been excellent this year. He has been terrible tonight.

I'm not sure about excellent.  He had a WHIP of around 1.30 entering last night.  But his SO & BB ratios have been really nice early this season.  

[alex]

8 hours ago, chasfh said:

I don’t think it’s gone yet. We still have Baez, we still have Rogers, Tork is still an open question. But, also, center field is not close to being settled and right field is not that much closer. We’re still in the process of clearing out enough rot that we can fairly say Al Avila’s thumbprint is still visible on the team.

its true that we’ve made a lot of progress turning over the team but we’ve got at least another year, probably two, until we move past the point where his tenure has a clear and present influence on the team.

 

8 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Baez is really the only problematic piece left.  Other than that, it's up to Harris going forward and it shouldn't take a few years like Buddah suggested. Harris has a chance to get them in contention by next year.  If he doesn't make progress by then, it's on him, not Avila.  

I do understand that things take time. However, with that said I would like to see SHarris acquire a 'mainstay' player (bat) or two via a trade. I do not feel you have to trade Jobe or Clark, etc., or any top 6 or so prospects to get another player or two in here (as many here feel). Heck, SD acquired LArraez just last week for prospects NOT in there top 6-7 ratings. It happens fairly regularly and this is what also contributes to being a good GM. The ability to negotiate a deal and also to get a FA when the opportunity arises.

They could compete this year really or maybe not? Maybe in two or three years. That is not going to matter if Harris cannot make deals. Simply, he has to show he can do this or the rebuild will go on into the next regime. NOBODY builds a team just on drafting. However, I do think drafting quality players is the main course. Once again we have turned over the player development, scouting, analytics, etc. departments. All good.

A good GM has to be able to acquire outside players here and there. There have in house 'some possibilities' Vierling, Ibanez, etc. - yet, these two guys do not work the count (see BB totals, however J HMalloy does do that)). That philosophy in general has to be looked at and to keep in mind it may NOT work for every player. I get controlling the zone but I feel as do many, that having an ability to drive in runs is just as, if not more important than getting on base. Go Tigs.

[Motor City Sonics]

What is so frustrating is while we sank to obscurity the Royals got to the World Series twice, won it once, broke up their team, sunk to the bottom and have now passed us again as we continue to languish in obscurity.    It's a true indictment of Al Avila's incompetence.       Harris doesn't own anything yet.   2026 is the year I start really evaluation what he's doing.      

Edited May 21 by Motor City Sonics

[Motor City Sonics]

I saw an article about teams that have had great starting pitching and how rare that is this year.  The Tigers weren't mentioned.    That's what I mean by obscurity.  

[1776]

The Royals radio broadcast last night pointed out the strength of the Tigers by mentioning its starting pitching. I think the Tigers themselves have lived in obscurity so long now that the media doesn’t give them their full due when something does change for the better. We’ll hear more about a so-so Yankee staff before the experts tell us the Tiger staff is good. 

[Tiger337]

9 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

I don’t think Harris gets a mulligan here.  The Royals were well behind us in rebuilding, yet have blown past us in very short order.  That’s on Scott.

It's not that I blame Harris.  It's that I no longer think Avila is responsible.  Avila was not a good GM, but he did leave Harris quite a few pieces with which to work. If he can't get it to work, that's on him.  I am not really disappointed with their progress this year so far, but I want to see further progress with young hitters through the end of the year.  

Edited May 21 by Tiger337

[Tiger337]

9 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

I don't know if I can take another year. This team is already boring me to tears.

They don't bore me like some past teams.  They can be frustrating, but they have been in almost every game.  

[oblong]

17 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

They don't bore me like some past teams.  They can be frustrating, but they have been in almost every game.  

That's how I feel.  Aside from the hitting I don't think they are playing bad baseball.   The best teams lose 40% of the time.  That's 2-3 games a week.  

[kdog]

2 hours ago, alex said:

 

I do understand that things take time. However, with that said I would like to see SHarris acquire a 'mainstay' player (bat) or two via a trade. I do not feel you have to trade Jobe or Clark, etc., or any top 6 or so prospects to get another player or two in here (as many here feel). Heck, SD acquired LArraez just last week for prospects NOT in there top 6-7 ratings. It happens fairly regularly and this is what also contributes to being a good GM. The ability to negotiate a deal and also to get a FA when the opportunity arises.

They could compete this year really or maybe not? Maybe in two or three years. That is not going to matter if Harris cannot make deals. Simply, he has to show he can do this or the rebuild will go on into the next regime. NOBODY builds a team just on drafting. However, I do think drafting quality players is the main course. Once again we have turned over the player development, scouting, analytics, etc. departments. All good.

A good GM has to be able to acquire outside players here and there. There have in house 'some possibilities' Vierling, Ibanez, etc. - yet, these two guys do not work the count (see BB totals, however J HMalloy does do that)). That philosophy in general has to be looked at and to keep in mind it may NOT work for every player. I get controlling the zone but I feel as do many, that having an ability to drive in runs is just as, if not more important than getting on base. Go Tigs.

It's not easy and for the most part free agency has stunk. I think we are close to rendering a verdict on Tork's long term upside. That should allow them to move on and improve the position.

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

What is so frustrating is while we sank to obscurity the Royals got to the World Series twice, won it once, broke up their team, sunk to the bottom and have now passed us again as we continue to languish in obscurity.    It's a true indictment of Al Avila's incompetence.       Harris doesn't own anything yet.   2026 is the year I start really evaluation what he's doing.      

This is probably closer to the truth. I think we’re in the rebuild of the rebuild now.

[chasfh]

13 minutes ago, kdog said:

It's not easy and for the most part free agency has stunk. I think we are close to rendering a verdict on Tork's long term upside. That should allow them to move on and improve the position.

I don’t think Tork goes anywhere until he goes through arb at least once, I think. Or we stumble into a major-league-ready plus first baseman who’s controllable for at least a few years.

[SoCalTiger]

5 hours ago, buddha said:

no

That’s good. Me either. 

[Motor City Sonics]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

They don't bore me like some past teams.  They can be frustrating, but they have been in almost every game.  

The frustrating part is that they are 23-24, but if their hitting was just simply a little below average, they could really be something like 29-18.   The pitching's been brilliant, but that offense is so inexcusably bad.    That's why they frustrate me so much.  I mean, getting shut out twice in a row by the worst team in baseball?   That's infuriating.      Plus we still can't beat the ****ing Oakland A's.  

[kdog]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I don’t think Tork goes anywhere until he goes through arb at least once, I think. Or we stumble into a major-league-ready plus first baseman who’s controllable for at least a few years.

You have to plan on him not being a 5 year core player. He is not consistent or valuable enough to rely upon. 

[chasfh]

7 minutes ago, kdog said:

You have to plan on him not being a 5 year core player. He is not consistent or valuable enough to rely upon. 

If true, then that's one more position Avila left us screwed on.

[Tiger337]

4 minutes ago, chasfh said:

If true, then that's one more position Avila left us screwed on.

As you have said before, who else should they have picked that year?  Are you blaming Avila for choosing a consensus #1.  

[Toddwert]

https://www.mlb.com/news/tigers-2020-draft

kind of a cringey article post 2020 draft about the Torkleson pick..... raving about how polished of a hitter he is and his bat will play anywhere

Edited May 21 by Toddwert

[gehringer_2]

4 hours ago, alex said:

controlling the zone

I've thought for a while now that 'control the zone' is actually a pretty useless focal point for hitters. It's an attempt to draw a parallel to what is successful in pitching but is basically inapplicable to hitting. Show me the hitter that swings at balls deliberately - I'm sure there are a few but not many. The real key to all hitting is pitch recognition and being quick enough to the ball to act on what you see in time. I can't really see any sense in which a hitter 'controls the zone'.  You guess as well you can that it's a good pitch but there is no procedure or technique in the world you can do in the box to increase your certainty of it; you either pick up something in the pitchers release or the spin or you don't, and once you decide to swing, the zone goes out the window and you just have to get the bat on the ball wherever it ends up.

And guys who do have recognition skill but will wait on only perfect pitches will never be competitive against good pitching.

[Toddwert]

13 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

As you have said before, who else should they have picked that year?  Are you blaming Avila for choosing a consensus #1.  

to be fair it was the covid year there wasnt any college or prep season so there wasnt really a chance for a late raiser to pop up so everyone was pretty much stuck with the previous years evaluations 

[gehringer_2]

2 minutes ago, Toddwert said:

to be fair it was the covid year there wasnt any college or prep season so there wasnt really a chance for a late raiser to pop up so everyone was pretty much stuck with the previous years evaluations 

IIRC on top of that the opposition had mostly walked Torkelson in his last full season so there wasn't as much to see there either as might have been.

[casimir]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

They don't bore me like some past teams.  They can be frustrating, but they have been in almost every game.  

If anything, maybe the offense is boring/frustrating.  But overall, you are correct, they're usually in every game.

[oblong]

I wonder if the ensuing lack of a 2020 minor league season plus the crap that was 2021 meant that the 2020 draft class was permanently harmed in terms of development.  Might be worthy of a research project to see where the picks went and how the ensuing drafts of 21 and 22 croweded them out of positions, if that indeed occurred.