oblong Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 I disagree that Ilitch didn't try and failed to spend money upon buying the team. He bought the team in August '92 and immediately made sure that Fielder and Whitaker were resigned. They signed Eric Davis as a FA after trading for him in '93. They made improvements to the exterior of Tiger Stadium. He executed poorly, very poorly, but he put a team in place (John McHale/Randy Smith/Buddy Bell) that had baseball pedigrees. If he didn't care or want to try he would not have done that. His record speaks for itself but I reject the idea he didn't want to win or was afraid to spend money, or my favorite at the time "He cared more about the Red Wings". His record does not bear that out at all. In fact you could argue he cared too much and made sentimental financial decisions... both with the Tigers and Red Wings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 12 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: Not at Comerica. Apparently, according to him, a 425' drive would be out of the park in Toledo. Comerica is in his head....lol And people wonder why top free agent hitters don't want to come here ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 22 minutes ago, oblong said: I disagree that Ilitch didn't try and failed to spend money upon buying the team. He bought the team in August '92 and immediately made sure that Fielder and Whitaker were resigned. They signed Eric Davis as a FA after trading for him in '93. They made improvements to the exterior of Tiger Stadium. He executed poorly, very poorly, but he put a team in place (John McHale/Randy Smith/Buddy Bell) that had baseball pedigrees. If he didn't care or want to try he would not have done that. His record speaks for itself but I reject the idea he didn't want to win or was afraid to spend money, or my favorite at the time "He cared more about the Red Wings". His record does not bear that out at all. In fact you could argue he cared too much and made sentimental financial decisions... both with the Tigers and Red Wings. Then he let the team go fallow for a decade with no apparent end in sight. I think he might have cared more about the Red Wings at that point because that's when they started really winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 2 hours ago, 1776 said: Are you kidding? Illitch thinks Harris & Hinch are baseball’s definition of genius! Randy Smith was a boy wonder at one time too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 (edited) 3 hours ago, Toddwert said: Randy Smith was a boy wonder at one time too I like that Hinch and Harris are more analytical than previous management. I have been wanting the Tigers to make those kinds of hires for a long time. It's not a guarantee of success though. Edited May 23 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 4 hours ago, chasfh said: Then he let the team go fallow for a decade with no apparent end in sight. I think he might have cared more about the Red Wings at that point because that's when they started really winning. I don't know. I've never owned my own pizza corporation that I built from the ground up and two pro sports teams at the same time. It might be easy pay more attention to the one or two that are successful at the time and trust the third to those that I've hired to run it. Its not an excuse, but I'm just guessing how that mid 90s to mid 00s played out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 4 hours ago, Toddwert said: Randy Smith was a boy wonder at one time too "Randy Smith" should be asterisked on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 5 minutes ago, casimir said: I don't know. I've never owned my own pizza corporation that I built from the ground up and two pro sports teams at the same time. It might be easy pay more attention to the one or two that are successful at the time and trust the third to those that I've hired to run it. Its not an excuse, but I'm just guessing how that mid 90s to mid 00s played out. His Smith regime had to rebuild, so that's what the 96-98 seasons were about.... it was a bad thing looking back that the '97 team did as well as they did. It masked issues, like the 2000 season did. Get near .500 and you think "Ok, we're not far away". I remember Buddy Bell being fired and the rumor was he wanted a new contract and Smith said the team isn't performing and Bell said the players suck, Smith said, no they don't.... so he fired him. Then we learned the players sucked. Buddy was right. How long was Smith here? 6 years? I know he was let go in early 2002. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 16 minutes ago, oblong said: His Smith regime had to rebuild, so that's what the 96-98 seasons were about.... it was a bad thing looking back that the '97 team did as well as they did. It masked issues, like the 2000 season did. Get near .500 and you think "Ok, we're not far away". I remember Buddy Bell being fired and the rumor was he wanted a new contract and Smith said the team isn't performing and Bell said the players suck, Smith said, no they don't.... so he fired him. Then we learned the players sucked. Buddy was right. How long was Smith here? 6 years? I know he was let go in early 2002. Smith was probably not around as long as I think he was, but it sure seems like the tenure rhymes with broken mirror. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 2 hours ago, Tiger337 said: I like that Hinch and Harris are more analytical than previous management. I have been wanting the Tigers to make those kinds of hires for a long time. It's not a guarantee of success though. thats my view also Its good that they are going in that direction are Harris and Hinch the guys to get you a World Series Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 1 hour ago, casimir said: I don't know. I've never owned my own pizza corporation that I built from the ground up and two pro sports teams at the same time. It might be easy pay more attention to the one or two that are successful at the time and trust the third to those that I've hired to run it. Its not an excuse, but I'm just guessing how that mid 90s to mid 00s played out. Smith was another guy with a sterling pedigree (like Avila). The thing with owning a sport franchise is you know you can't run it yourself, so you try to find someone to run it who is good at it and you get out of their way - because you learned that micromanaging was never a good idea in any of your other businesses. The difference is that you give a guy a year or two, or maybe even just a couple of quarters, in most of the normal business world, and you may already have a pretty good idea whether your hire was a mistake or not. It takes so long to turn over an MLB roster and get players through a a long development pipeline that you are not going to know that Randy Smith was a big mistake or even that DD was going to deplete your farm system, for way more years than you or the fans like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 It didn't take too long to figure out Randy Smith! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 The concern with Harris is lack of track record. He wasn’t the guy in Chicago or SF. He had good mentors and is learning on the job, but let’s be realistic and that he could very well be our version of Bob Quinn, who arrived with similar enthusiasm and accolades. Tigers Twitter has a severe groupthink mentality when it comes to him—almost sycophantic. Some of that permeates here, too. Just because Harris isn’t Avila doesn’t make him any better or portend future success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 How much longer before Tiger GDTs games go by the month, like the Red Wings, instead of game by game? Rebuilding since 1984.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 Harris' moves have mostly worked out. His issues are 1) patience vs. complacency and 2) risk appetite. At some point he is going to have to take a risk; otherwise he's just treading water forever waiting for Lakeland talent to arrive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveMaroth Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 The amount of negativity here you would think we were the 03 Tigers not 1.5 games back from a wildcard spot 🙄. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 3 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: Harris' moves have mostly worked out. His issues are 1) patience vs. complacency and 2) risk appetite. At some point he is going to have to take a risk; otherwise he's just treading water forever waiting for Lakeland talent to arrive. I think drafting Clark over Langford demonstrated risk-taking as Wyatt was the more proven, closer to MLB prospect of the two. However, I do think he bungled the ERod trade situation, unless there was absolutely no other team remotely interested in acquiring him. Also, I’d like to see a bit more DD in him and move some prospects for established players. He did that successfully in getting Canha, and didn’t have to yield a top-25 prospect in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 3 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said: The amount of negativity here you would think we were the 03 Tigers not 1.5 games back from a wildcard spot 🙄. Could be an overreaction, but the Royals series was a real kick in the teeth, especially given how bad they were last season. Someone pointed out that they could regress at some point, but until that happens it feels like they leapfrogged us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 14 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said: The amount of negativity here you would think we were the 03 Tigers not 1.5 games back from a wildcard spot 🙄. maybe because they are 3 games out and 3-7 the last 10 games and its been 7 years of crappy baseball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveMaroth Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 8 minutes ago, Toddwert said: maybe because they are 3 games out and 3-7 the last 10 games and its been 7 years of crappy baseball I think it's all about expectations for this year. My personal expectations were 81-81 and maybe fighting for a wildcard spot in August/September. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 28 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said: I think it's all about expectations for this year. My personal expectations were 81-81 and maybe fighting for a wildcard spot in August/September. but the problem is everyone got all excited when they started hot and expections changed right or wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 11 hours ago, oblong said: I disagree that Ilitch didn't try and failed to spend money upon buying the team. He bought the team in August '92 and immediately made sure that Fielder and Whitaker were resigned. They signed Eric Davis as a FA after trading for him in '93. They made improvements to the exterior of Tiger Stadium. He executed poorly, very poorly, but he put a team in place (John McHale/Randy Smith/Buddy Bell) that had baseball pedigrees. If he didn't care or want to try he would not have done that. His record speaks for itself but I reject the idea he didn't want to win or was afraid to spend money, or my favorite at the time "He cared more about the Red Wings". His record does not bear that out at all. In fact you could argue he cared too much and made sentimental financial decisions... both with the Tigers and Red Wings. If I remember correctly, it had been mentioned about Ilitch that sometimes he was too loyal to his employees. I have to think that was the case with Randy Smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 3 hours ago, Toddwert said: maybe because they are 3 games out and 3-7 the last 10 games and its been 7 years of crappy baseball The 7 years of crappy baseball is indeed a factor. It’s something that Harris needs to be well aware of. He inherited a mess, this stretch isn’t all on him. But he inherited a disappointed fan base that might not have the patience that he hopes for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 17 hours ago, oblong said: His Smith regime had to rebuild, so that's what the 96-98 seasons were about.... it was a bad thing looking back that the '97 team did as well as they did. It masked issues, like the 2000 season did. Get near .500 and you think "Ok, we're not far away". Almost perfect description of 2021, too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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