5/29/24 DH Game 1 12:40PM Pirates @ Tigers

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

But judging a pitcher on 4 innings of work is a pretty small sample size.

sure - I'm not upset with Montero  - I didn't expect any more from Montero than that he might keep it reasonable just in case Skenes came down to earth a little.

Edited May 30 by gehringer_2

[kdog]

Tork went 0-7 in the two games. He just doesn't do anything aside from the occasional double and infrequent homer. 

And even if he has a resurgent two months later, how can you count on him for anything next year?

[Sports_Freak]

4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

sure - I'm not upset with Montero  - I didn't expect any more from Montero than that he might keep it reasonable just in case Skenes came down to earth a little.

I'm not sure what some fans expected from a #7 pitcher. I'm sure they'll be very pleased when he's in the rotation after the trade deadline. 😁

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, kdog said:

Tork went 0-7 in the two games. He just doesn't do anything aside from the occasional double and infrequent homer. 

And even if he has a resurgent two months later, how can you count on him for anything next year?

I'm past being able to figure out what's going on with him. I think it's about as obvious as anything ever can be in baseball that he has to move into the dish a little bit and start tatooing that waist high fastball on the outer third. That's generally the only place he sees a FB anymore and he won't swing at them. It's a free lunch for pitchers against him. He can either spend the rest of the season with a 270 OBP waiting for mistakes inside or he can learn to actually be a hitter because the league has his number and he's not adjusting. He'll show a little change in approach here and there but then just reverts back.

[Sports_Freak]

5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I'm past being able to figure out what's going on with him. I think it's about as obvious as anything ever can be in baseball that he has to move into the dish a little bit and start tatooing that waist high fastball on the outer third. That's generally the only place he sees a FB anymore and he won't swing at them. It's a free lunch for pitchers against him. He can either spend the rest of the season with a 270 OBP waiting for mistakes inside or he can learn to actually be a hitter because the league has his number and he's not adjusting. He'll show a little change in approach here and there but then just reverts back.

How much longer does he get? Thru this season? Or all of next year too? 

[casimir]

12 hours ago, casimir said:

Good day to win two.

I don’t know, I thought this was a pretty good idea.  Which one of you morans dropped the ball on this?

[casimir]

5 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Skubal now has 500 strike outs.

That’s a heckuva day.

[casimir]

4 hours ago, Tigerbomb13 said:

Did Manning start too recently to get called back up?

I had heard on a podcast that he was sent down too recently to be recalled, per MLB rules.  I don’t think this applies to demotions of 27th men from doubleheaders.

[casimir]

3 hours ago, Hongbit said:

I saw 4.1 innings of him.

This is one of my peeves about baseball.  4.1 innings?  It’s 4.33333333333333 innings.  Or 4 1/3 innings.  Come on, man, think of the kids in here and the habits they pick up on.

[kdog]

They didn't like his start in Arizona...and clearly they didn't feel like he deserved another start right now.

[casimir]

2 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Eric Munson  (1056 AB)     .214/.289/.394/.683     49 HR    K rate 22.1 %  OPS+ 80

Spencer Torkelson (1159 AB)   .221/.300/.392/.691  43 HR   K rate 27.3%   OPS  92

 

Running out of time to turn this around? 

 

I get that Torkelson has been frustrating so far.  But comparing the start of his career numbers to another guy’s entire career numbers doesn’t seem all that useful to me.

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

I'm past being able to figure out what's going on with him. I think it's about as obvious as anything ever can be in baseball that he has to move into the dish a little bit and start tatooing that waist high fastball on the outer third. That's generally the only place he sees a FB anymore and he won't swing at them. It's a free lunch for pitchers against him. He can either spend the rest of the season with a 270 OBP waiting for mistakes inside or he can learn to actually be a hitter because the league has his number and he's not adjusting. He'll show a little change in approach here and there but then just reverts back.

I think he needs to be sent to Toledo.

He needs to figure something out. Whatever that may be.

And he apparently is unwilling to do so in MLB.

So let's try AAA.

[Sports_Freak]

59 minutes ago, casimir said:

I get that Torkelson has been frustrating so far.  But comparing the start of his career numbers to another guy’s entire career numbers doesn’t seem all that useful to me.

Yeah, he's still pretty young. But how long does he get? Until next season? I would hate to give up on him too soon, some players take a bit longer to figure it out.

[oblong]

If he doesn’t show something better throughout this year then it’s time to look for alternatives. That’s what this year is about. I’ve been patient with him but at some point you have to move on. If he goes on elsewhere to hit 40 bombs as a DH then God bless him. But an org doesn’t have to sit around waiting for a DH or below average 1B to “figure it out”.  He won’t be a David Ortiz type player. 

[SoCalTiger]

6 hours ago, chasfh said:

Matt Vierling is my Tiger at the moment. 

If he can hit for power we have another foundation piece. Which makes two with Greene and two more close in Tork and Keith. If those four are solid solid by years end that’s huge. 

[TigerNation]

6 hours ago, Hongbit said:

Initial thoughts are a first impression.  You are failing to understand that concept.   It’s supposed to have a very small sample size.  

All caveats aside, I didn’t think Montero pitched very well today.   Made a few nice pitches but overall I was pretty unimpressed especially for someone that it’s supposed to be the 7th or 8th best prospect in the system.

I was more impressed with seeing both Olson and Briekse in their stints last year.  Both of those guys had life and movement on fastball and showed some secondary pitches as well.    You could see there was something more with those two  that had me interested to see them again.  I didn’t get that feeling today with Montero.  He was lucky to get out with what he did.   I can’t imagine him facing a legit lineup with his flat fastball and over the plate off speed.  

He's not the 7th or 8th best prospects in the system. Fangraphs has him 23rd.

He's projected to a middle relief role long term.

[TigerNation]

28 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

If he can hit for power we have another foundation piece. Which makes two with Greene and two more close in Tork and Keith. If those four are solid solid by years end that’s huge. 

Add Carpenter in there and remove Tork.

[gehringer_2]

20 minutes ago, TigerNation said:

Add Carpenter in there and remove Tork.

Green, Carpenter and Keith are all LHH. There dirth of of RH power bats is probably why Torkelson has gotten as much rope as he has. Canha has hit a few but only one since May1.

[Topliner1903]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

Green, Carpenter and Keith are all LHH. There dirth of of RH power bats is probably why Torkelson has gotten as much rope as he has. Canha has hit a few but only one since May1.

And Jung, Clark, and McGonigle all lefties. We need Justin Henry to come through so we have at least one righty prospect that makes it. I guess there's Dingler, but he'd just be taking the place of Rogers, another righty.

[casimir]

Here is something that baffles me about the results of Torkelson's plate appearances.

The BABIP is low while the hard hit % and exit velocities are above average.

[casimir]

9 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

Yeah, he's still pretty young. But how long does he get? Until next season? I would hate to give up on him too soon, some players take a bit longer to figure it out.

 

8 hours ago, oblong said:

If he doesn’t show something better throughout this year then it’s time to look for alternatives. That’s what this year is about. I’ve been patient with him but at some point you have to move on. If he goes on elsewhere to hit 40 bombs as a DH then God bless him. But an org doesn’t have to sit around waiting for a DH or below average 1B to “figure it out”.  He won’t be a David Ortiz type player. 

Having a good glove would certainly give him more grace while the bat is unsteady.  I'm not much for younger 1B to begin with.  I understand some guys just aren't going to be able to play elsewhere, and it happens.  Ideally guys start higher up on the defensive scale and cascade down over the course of their career.

So here we are, a situation where a young player had the perceived hitting skill set and accolades to go 1.1 and a glove that was "hidable" under those circumstances.  But the bat hasn't delivered.

[1984Echoes]

5 hours ago, Topliner1903 said:

And Jung, Clark, and McGonigle all lefties. We need Justin Henry to come through so we have at least one righty prospect that makes it. I guess there's Dingler, but he'd just be taking the place of Rogers, another righty.

For RH'ers...

Looking at Malloy, Dingler, Gold (further away at A+) and maybe Campos (same).

I still say swap Tork for Vilade just to see what happens.

[1984Echoes]

For switch-hitters:

Looks like MLB pitchers have adjusted to Perez... here's to hoping he can make his own adjustments (and handle the inside pitches that he now seems to be getting a steady diet of...) and stick in MLB. If he can, there's a decent bat with decent power with decent speed and a decent glove... Nothing outstanding, but if there's enough above average he'll be a useful, slightly above average player that can be spotted in multiple places...

Trei Cruz is in Erie but he looks like a backup SS & CF'er at this point, at best... I don't know what his chances are...

FRANYERBER Montilla is the same age as Clark and is lighting up the Dominican Leagues... but that's quite a lot further away. I don't know if he sticks at SS or slides over to the left or the right...? Somewhere in the 2B-SS-3B range... Don't know what his chances are or how long it takes... but at least several years down the road...

[1776]

5 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

 

I still say swap Tork for Vilade just to see what happens.

I’m on board with this. The status quo with Tork isn’t working and isn’t likely to change. 

[chasfh]

9 hours ago, oblong said:

If he doesn’t show something better throughout this year then it’s time to look for alternatives. That’s what this year is about. I’ve been patient with him but at some point you have to move on. If he goes on elsewhere to hit 40 bombs as a DH then God bless him. But an org doesn’t have to sit around waiting for a DH or below average 1B to “figure it out”.  He won’t be a David Ortiz type player. 

Maybe we can move on from him when we find someone decent to replace him. And it doesn’t even have to be a stud with the stick—it could be a halfway-decent hitter with a plus-glove. But I’m pretty sure the last thing we will want to do DFA him out of frustration and get nothing in return, or exile him to Toledo and signal to the market that he’s damaged goods. If we want to get a return for him annd eventually end up with something better, we have little choice at this moment but to keep playing him and hope he figures it out at least a little.