#10 is going up on the brick wall !

[Tiger337]

33 minutes ago, oblong said:

When it comes to managers I go by what the players say.  Especially Sparky it seems like his guys really admired him.  Fryman named his son George and Tram and Gibby talk him up a lot.  Managers don't teach them to play.

But that role has changed over the years as we have more analytics and the players have gotten "bigger".  Before I think a big part of their job was on the babysitting side of things.  Curfews, rules, etc.  Now the players are their own corporations and know how to take care of themselves, millions of dollars are at stake, and they have agents and handlers.

 

The veterans all loved and respected him.  There were some isolated cases like Howard Johnson where he seemed to lack patience with young players. 

[Tenacious D]

39 minutes ago, oblong said:

When it comes to managers I go by what the players say.  Especially Sparky it seems like his guys really admired him.  Fryman named his son George and Tram and Gibby talk him up a lot.  Managers don't teach them to play.

Conversely, no Tigers from any of the 2014-2017 teams have named their sons Brad, as of yet.

[Toddwert]

33 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Conversely, no Tigers from any of the 2014-2017 teams have named their sons Brad, as of yet.

I waiting for lil Gardy

[Sports_Freak]

22 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't know about retiring manager numbers, but if anyone deserves that honor, it's him.  He may be the last of the old school managers.  He was tough and sensitive at the same time and very honest.  He is not as data smart as the new breed of managers and might have a hard managing in the new environment, but he seems like a good person and entertaining too.        

I remember he was being interviewed and was asked why he did something when the stats were very strong against him. His reply was something like "we don't play the game on a computer." Classic old school...

[Sports_Freak]

58 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

We were spoiled by the Dombrowski/Leyland era, which has been the greatest in my lifetime.  Was alive for ‘68 and ‘84, but the 2006-2014 stretch was the best, IMO.

I remember when we first acquired Cabrera (2008?) Many fans predicted 1000 runs. I think we finished in last place? It's baseball, you just never know.

[RandyMarsh]

1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

I remember when we first acquired Cabrera (2008?) Many fans predicted 1000 runs. I think we finished in last place? It's baseball, you just never know.

Yeah I remember that, I wasn't a member here yet was still on the ESPN Tiger board and most of the posters there weren't really into analytics or things like that. They had the mentality of "we scored 900 runs last year so Cabrera and Renteria(All Star the previous year) would be worth atleast another 100." I wasn't super into metrics at that time but even then I knew that was a lazy way to look at things and tried to warn them that it doesn't work that way.

You can't just assume that guys like Magglio, Polanco and Granderson were going to repeat their unbelievable 2007s and that more than likely any gain Cabrera would bring would probably be offset by their regression. 

Edited June 4, 2024 by RandyMarsh

[Motown Bombers]

2 hours ago, Toddwert said:

I waiting for lil Gardy

[ben9753]

Totally forgot Gardenhire was the manager here for a couple years.

[chasfh]

5 hours ago, tiger2022 said:

Except when LaRussa would hit the pitcher 8th.  

Maybe because he’d been primarily an American League manager before that.

[chasfh]

7 minutes ago, ben9753 said:

Totally forgot Gardenhire was the manager here for a couple years.

I envy you.

[Toddwert]

18 minutes ago, ben9753 said:

Totally forgot Gardenhire was the manager here for a couple years.

Niko Goodrum and Mikie Mahtook say WTF

[1776]

45 minutes ago, ben9753 said:

Totally forgot Gardenhire was the manager here for a couple years.

The word “manager” may be a little too generous. I always regarded him as a professional placeholder. He had a crap team and a crap GM to deal with. He took on a no win situation. 

Edited June 4, 2024 by 1776

[1776]

I’d like to see a good biography specifically on Leyland one day with a really good writer that could do it justice. 

[chasfh]

The hire of Ron Gardenhire was proof positive that everything Al Avila said about the importance of analytics was horse**** lip service.

[Sports_Freak]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

The hire of Ron Gardenhire was proof positive that everything Al Avila said about the importance of analytics was horse**** lip service.

It's how all management works. Even Harris. Remember when the Tigers said one of the reasons they got Canha was so the young players would learn from his approach? Yeah, Meadows and Tork shipped out, Keith struggled for the first 8 weeks or so. Which player has benefited from Canha's high OBP? Javy? Lol...I don't think so.

[oblong]

I’m think Gardenhire is as all marketing. The team will suck so let’s get someone to fake legitimacy.  

[Sports_Freak]

A guy on Twitter wrote a good article asking what if Tork doesn't get fixed down in Toledo? Will the Tigers cut bait? It's an eye opening question and it questions the Tigers ability of developing hitters.

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

It's how all management works. Even Harris. Remember when the Tigers said one of the reasons they got Canha was so the young players would learn from his approach? Yeah, Meadows and Tork shipped out, Keith struggled for the first 8 weeks or so. Which player has benefited from Canha's high OBP? Javy? Lol...I don't think so.

Vierling and Perez!

[Sports_Freak]

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

Vierling and Perez!

Perez started our hot but cooled off being around Canha.

Hey, I'm joking. You guys don't have to throw a ton of stats at me!

[Tiger337]

3 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Perez started our hot but cooled off being around Canha.

Hey, I'm joking. You guys don't have to throw a ton of stats at me!

I was joking too.  I don't think the veteran presence thing is going to dramatically change a hitter.

[Sports_Freak]

8 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I was joking too.  I don't think the veteran presence thing is going to dramatically change a hitter.

I don't either. When I read that (or saw it) I just shook my head about how silly it was/is. I'm not a fan of working the count either. It's been known for about 100 years that hitters have better results when up in the count. Harris didn't discover something new.

[tiger2022]

5 hours ago, chasfh said:

Maybe because he’d been primarily an American League manager before that.

It actually kind of makes sense.  If you put an actual hitter 9th, especially leading off an inning, there is a better chance he gets on base than a pitcher so the top of the order has a guy on base.  

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

I was joking too.  I don't think the veteran presence thing is going to dramatically change a hitter.

Yeah, we had one of the greatest veteran hitters on the bench through 2 terrible yrs by the hitters. If Cabrera didn’t rub off on anyone., how do you seriously argue Canha would?

[RandyMarsh]

I remember when we were struggling the first half or so of 2012 some/many suggested that it was because we were missing Victor's "leadership" and "veteran presence".  I remember some people even going as far as to say that he should be traveling with the team while he rehabbed his injury. 

[chasfh]

51 minutes ago, tiger2022 said:

It actually kind of makes sense.  If you put an actual hitter 9th, especially leading off an inning, there is a better chance he gets on base than a pitcher so the top of the order has a guy on base.  

Yes, and I think it’s a pretty good slot to put a low on-base guy who can run bases really well. I’ve done that in my old-timey sim league.