Bears at Lions. a turkey matchup for turkey day

[MichiganCardinal]

Just now, mtutiger said:

One thing I'd like to see from Campbell (although I doubt I will see) is a recognition that the team would be better off if Lynn is calling plays. Just put ego aside, admit that it isn't working, move on and try to fix the other aspects of being a head coach in this league.

It's not an easy job. And my honest read is that he's in over his head at the moment.

I agree with this.

[sabretooth]

16 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

One thing I'd like to see from Campbell (although I doubt I will see) is a recognition that the team would be better off if Lynn is calling plays. Just put ego aside, admit that it isn't working, move on and try to fix the other aspects of being a head coach in this league.

It's not an easy job. And my honest read is that he's in over his head at the moment with what is currently on his plate.

Seems likena correct read.

[TP_Fan]

1 hour ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Some people in here are getting too emotionally invested in this team. If the four game deciding field goals had gone their way and they were 4-7, would you feel better?

Less than 10 players on this 53-man are likely to be on this team in three years. If Campbell sucks when it matters, he will not remain here. For now though, put a cardboard cutout of Hue Jackson out there to coach this team for all I care.

Relax.

Seriously, pound sand.  There is nothing worse than someone telling others how much to invest in a sports team or not.  You do you. Let others be themselves.

Regardless of talent, the decision making is a real problem.   Giving a free pass is the worst type of fan. 

[Jason_R]

They don’t trust Goff and they are calling a conservative game plan. Even so, the OL got six (I think) holding penalties and a handful of false starts. And Goff had a fumble as well. But yeah they should have been chucking it all around the yard.  🤦🏻‍♂️

This is not a good team. They do not have good players. Everyone is building for 2024, Campbell included. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Jason_R

[TP_Fan]

13 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

They don’t trust Goff and they are calling a conservative game plan. Even so, the OL got six (I think) holding penalties and a handful of false starts. And Goff had a fumble as well. But yeah they should have been chucking it all around the yard.  🤦🏻‍♂️

This is not a good team. They do not have good players. Everyone is building for 2024, Campbell included. 

Another Campbell apologists.   No mention of the back to back timeouts at the end.  Campbell claims he didn’t want to give up a TD and thought the 5 yards was better.  Giving up a TD would have literally given the lions the best odds to win.  If Campbell is here in 2024 the lions will still be a bottom feeder. 

[Motor City Sonics]

4 hours ago, sagnam said:

We have a storm trooper calling plays

Too bad we picked the one who bumped his head on the door. 

[Hongbit]

15 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

They don’t trust Goff and they are calling a conservative game plan. Even so, the OL got six (I think) holding penalties and a handful of false starts. And Goff had a fumble as well. But yeah they should have been chucking it all around the yard.  🤦🏻‍♂️

This is not a good team. They do not have good players. Everyone is building for 2024, Campbell included. 

All of this is true.   It is also true that Campbell has no fucking clue when it comes to clock management, end of game strategy, and pretty much everything else a coach has to decide real time between the lines.  He has not been good at all and his decisions certainly played a big part in them losing a few games at the end.  I’m not sure why so many here just don’t seem to care that he’s terrible in this incredibly important part of being a good head coach.     I’m not suggesting he be fired and I haven’t given up on him but he hasn’t been very good at his job this season.   

[Motor City Sonics]

The worst guy on the field today, and I mean BY FAR, was not a sub, was not a rookie, it was Taylor Decker.   Whiffed constantly,  holding constantly.   I expect subs and rookies to make those plays.   Get rid of him.   Get rid of Campbell. No excuses for that today.  

[Jason_R]

12 minutes ago, TP_Fan said:

Another Campbell apologists.   No mention of the back to back timeouts at the end.  Campbell claims he didn’t want to give up a TD and thought the 5 yards was better.  Giving up a TD would have literally given the lions the best odds to win.  If Campbell is here in 2024 the lions will still be a bottom feeder. 

Another delusional fan who thinks the Lions would be playoff bound if only the coach would send five guys on deep pass routes every play. “tHe plAyCalliNg suX!”

Everybody knew from the start that Campbell was an inexperienced coach. Everybody knew from the start that the roster is bereft of talent (and that was before Ragnow and Swift got injured). Everybody knew this team was going to be in the running for the first pick in the draft. They are right on schedule for that. There are no surprises.

[RedRamage]

Personally I'm treating Campbell as a rookie.  I know that technically he's had interim HC experience, but this is his first full "rookie" season as a HC.  I'm expecting to see mistakes along the way.  I'm expecting there to be a learning curve.  If it happens during a season where the whole team pretty much is gonna suck anyway then that's the best time to learn I guess.

I'm not giving Campbell a pass in the sense of just not caring about his mistakes.  Rather, like a rookie player I'm expecting to see problems and I'm hoping for growth.  I'm not going to write off Sewell as a bust because of some poor play during various games or too many penalties or whatever.  In the same way I'm not going to consider Campbell a bust because of mistakes like seriously poor clock management this game.

This team is gonna suck this year and probably won't be considerably better next year.  My question is this: Will Campbell grow and improve with more experience?  Will 2022 see improvements in Campbell's HC skills?  If we see improvement in 2022 than good.  If we don't, then we can start the bust talk.

I'm not saying that Campbell hasn't made mistakes... he absolutely has.  Have these mistakes cost them games?  Hard to say.  Perhaps.  But the play on the field has been the much bigger problem, imho. And that's a severe lack of a talent showing through more than anything.

[mtutiger]

12 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

I’m not suggesting he be fired and I haven’t given up on him but he hasn’t been very good at his job this season.   

Then what are we arguing about exactly?

I'm not sure I've seen a single person in this thread suggest Dan Campbell has done well at his job this season.

[Motor City Sonics]

Those 3rd and 32 plays...........you didn't need to get first downs, but you needed to try to get some yards and not give up.  The way Fox boots the ball, they could have set the Bears back another 15-20 yards.    Go down swinging FFS, don't do this.  This was pathetic.  People know you are no good, but FIGHT for it.   

 

Licking Kneecaps.  

[RedRamage]

5 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Those 3rd and 32 plays...........you didn't need to get first downs, but you needed to try to get some yards and not give up.  The way Fox boots the ball, they could have set the Bears back another 15-20 yards.    Go down swinging FFS, don't do this.  This was pathetic.  People know you are no good, but FIGHT for it.   

 

Licking Kneecaps.  

Someone else said it before but I'll echo it: I hope that Campbell gives play calling back to Lynn.  It seems at times that Campbell got convinced during the Steelers game that the Lions can have success just repeatedly pounding the ball down the throats of the opposition 70% of the time.

[Motor City Sonics]

5 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

Someone else said it before but I'll echo it: I hope that Campbell gives play calling back to Lynn.  It seems at times that Campbell got convinced during the Steelers game that the Lions can have success just repeatedly pounding the ball down the throats of the opposition 70% of the time.

Cant put the toothpaste back in the tube

[TP_Fan]

15 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

Another delusional fan who thinks the Lions would be playoff bound if only the coach would send five guys on deep pass routes every play. “tHe plAyCalliNg suX!”

Everybody knew from the start that Campbell was an inexperienced coach. Everybody knew from the start that the roster is bereft of talent (and that was before Ragnow and Swift got injured). Everybody knew this team was going to be in the running for the first pick in the draft. They are right on schedule for that. There are no surprises.

Not one surprise eh?  What were your thoughts on the back to back timeouts?  Honest question.   Thoughts on this inexperienced coach taking over the play calling, not a surprise?   You’re talking out both sides of your mouth.  Both sides littered with illogical nonsense. 

[Hongbit]

18 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Then what are we arguing about exactly?

I'm not sure I've seen a single person in this thread suggest Dan Campbell has done well at his job this season.

If we all agree he hasn’t been good then we are arguing whether he should be criticized for it or not.    There are quite a few that think he should get a free pass based on bad players and injuries.    

[TP_Fan]

I mean shoot, the egregious play calling goes back to the preseason.  Bills were 4th and 10, 1:17 left, Campbell era about to start with a W.  Lions, for some inexplicable reason, give price no safety help on the outside.  Easy first down.  Bills end up kicking a FG to win with no time left.  It’s only gotten worse from them.  By the time the lions start year 2 of the Campbell era they will have played 20 games and won none of them.  Lost all 3 preseason games, will go 0-16-1 in the regular season.

Campbell will be a lion employee for 19 months when the next years preseason begins and he will have experienced zero win.  Every mistake he has made is being hand waved by many here.  He has doubled down on his meat head philosophy and folks expect he will grow from it?  Come on. 

[Kamakzie]

56 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Too bad we picked the one who bumped his head on the door. 

This guy?

[Jason_R]

13 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

If we all agree he hasn’t been good then we are arguing whether he should be criticized for it or not.    There are quite a few that think he should get a free pass based on bad players and injuries.    

“Free pass.”

What do you propose to do? Burn some jerseys? Write a sternly worded letter? Draw and quarter him? Maybe you and TP want to script the first fifteen plays and get a hotline set up so you can advise him on his use of timeouts. 

[TP_Fan]

3 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

“Free pass.”

What do you propose to do? Burn some jerseys? Write a sternly worded letter? Draw and quarter him? Maybe you and TP want to script the first fifteen plays and get a hotline set up so you can advise him on his use of timeouts. 

What are you even talking about?  Just call it as it is.   For some reason you, and others, have made some really weird conclusion that Campbell is beyond criticism this year.   

[sagnam]

7 minutes ago, Kamakzie said:

This guy?

I think that’s our last HC.

[Jason_R]

9 minutes ago, TP_Fan said:

What are you even talking about?  Just call it as it is.   For some reason you, and others, have made some really weird conclusion that Campbell is beyond criticism this year.   

I didn’t say he is beyond criticism. I said your criticism of him is inane. Big difference. 

[Hongbit]

10 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

“Free pass.”

What do you propose to do? Burn some jerseys? Write a sternly worded letter? Draw and quarter him? Maybe you and TP want to script the first fifteen plays and get a hotline set up so you can advise him on his use of timeouts. 

We aren’t going to do a thing. This is a Lions message board.  It’s sole purpose is for having discussion on the Lions.   That’s what we do here.   You know this. 

[mtutiger]

47 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

If we all agree he hasn’t been good then we are arguing whether he should be criticized for it or not.    

How many times do I need to keep saying that I think his playcalling sucks? 5 more? 10 more?

Christ. Maybe, just maybe, the problems run a little deeper than Dan Campbell. 

[TP_Fan]

16 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

How many times do I need to keep saying that I think his playcalling sucks? 5 more? 10 more?

Christ. Maybe, just maybe, the problems run a little deeper than Dan Campbell. 

The issue is you keep qualifying it.  And you narrow it to play calling. The lions have been awful for 60 years, of course the issues run deeper.  Some now we should give Campbell a free pass because of it?  Today was as bad as it gets for the lions. The team held in there only for their coach to vomit on the field at the end.  That’s the biggest issue. This talentless bunch is playing hard, how long until they fully quit when their coach keeps losing the game at the end?   His egregious inability to understand clock management, use of timeouts and basic odds is why they haven’t won’t a game.  With a competent coaching staff this team would have 4 wins right now.

Does that 4 wins help them in the long run?  No. But does continually losing due to ineptitude hurt in the long run?  It absolutely does.  Campbell has shown zero ability to progress.  His decision making has regressed to the point where every person in America watched today and saw the lions had a head coach who would struggle to make it through a madden game.  And folks here want to say, “yeah I agree the play calling could improve but otherwise no issues.”   This staff is fundamentally worse than Patrica.  That is hard to phantom. But it’s true. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by TP_Fan