casimir Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 17 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: I don't really agree. 2021 was 3 years ago and our payroll has dropped dramatically. You may be right and Chris is willing to spend but we really don't know that. And not to sound like a broken record but JD Martinez was out there when the Tigers knew their lineup was going to struggle offensively. A team that wanted to have a chance to make the playoffs would have gone after him. They may have for all we know but it seems we may have heard about it. What we did hear was Hinch didn't want a full-time DH. He wanted to give players a bit of a day off at DH. And then they called up a kid who is a defensive liability and put his at...full-time DH. The Tigers opened the season with Greene, Canha, Meadows, Carpenter, Vierling, and Torkelson among the 3 OF spots and 1B and DH. So, 6 guys for 5 spots, one of which was DH. Where does Martinez fit in there? Granted, there was some concern about whether Meadows would stick, and I think that's fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 15 minutes ago, chasfh said: Am I not, though? Maybe I'm not interpreting it all properly, but it looks to me as though many, if not most, of the posters here are complaining loudly about how we are not winning and competing for a ring, or at least playoffs, with this team as currently constructed, with the players we have on the team right now, as though Harris has had plenty of time, we should be all done remaking the team by now, and we should expect to be playing baseball in October instead of golf, and anything less than that is a failure. I don't see it that way at all. I thought at the beginning of the season we would have a puncher's chance to make the playoffs, but I can see now that I too overrated their progress at the time. The difference with me, I think, is that I've come around to the idea that the organization was just not as far along as I'd hoped, while others seem to believe we have the horses right now and that it's the coaching that's failing us. I think the season is going as expected overall and I am encouraged by apparent player development improvements throughout the organization. The difference between you and me is that I don't have undying faith in Harris to turn the franchise into a winner. I don't know that he won't either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 1 hour ago, casimir said: If Torkelson, Keith, and Baez hit more along the lines of reasonable expectations rather than their respective OPS+s of 69, 56, and 29, this team is currently in a wildcard spot. Those deltas alone have probably cost a handful of games when they are currently only 3.5 games out. Until hitting development is fixed, we're wasting our time. I'm confident that this is taking up a majority of the player development work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 I just have this feeling that Flaherty is gone by the all star break and Skubal is a Yankee or Dodger at next year's trade deadline. I think Harris believes this group of players, led by Mize and Torkelson, have proven to be busts and it's another lost 3 or 4 years. Skubal will be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 hard decisions will need to be made. signing any pitcher to a long term deal is inherently risky. Flaherty and Skubal both have long injury histories, only compounding the risk. Harris so far has purposely avoided anything risky. clear to me how this plays out. Avila infamously never traded Boyd, always waiting for a godfather offer that never came; keeping him was meaningless; horrible asset allocation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 7 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: hard decisions will need to be made. signing any pitcher to a long term deal is inherently risky. Flaherty and Skubal both have long injury histories, only compounding the risk. Harris so far has purposely avoided anything risky. clear to me how this plays out. Avila infamously never traded Boyd, always waiting for a godfather offer that never came; keeping him was meaningless; horrible asset allocation Will we benefit from Skubal's star turn while he is under team control? Or will we waste his 2024 season performance again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 2 hours ago, chasfh said: Meaning, is it worth our selling a guy like Flaherty? If that's what you mean, we haven't seen Harris sell yet, so I think he deserves the chance to show us what he can do when he does. He had a chance to sell last year and couldn't get an ERod deal done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 Skubal and Mize are only under control for two more years after this one. Will they be ready to compete next year? It doesn't look likely. They were supposed to answer questions this year but it seems more concerns keep popping up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 23 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: He had a chance to sell last year and couldn't get an ERod deal done. That’s not fair since he had a deal to a contender that ERod vetoed. ERod the person, was at best going through some things that impacted his normal judgement and at worse a compete whack job that had no care about anything team related. 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveMaroth Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 29 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: He had a chance to sell last year and couldn't get an ERod deal done. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 43 minutes ago, Tigermojo said: Skubal and Mize are only under control for two more years after this one. Will they be ready to compete next year? It doesn't look likely. They were supposed to answer questions this year but it seems more concerns keep popping up. Mize is just a bottom of the rotation guy. He's a dime a dozen. He doesn't have a swing and miss pitch...average to below average stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 but Harris should be able to trade him for a young middle of the order SS with great defense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 22 hours ago, kdog said: I don't think Langford vs Clark is declarative of a timeline. Like Lee said, they did it as a strategy. Yes they did and it was wise BUT if Harris thought the Central division was at hand do you not think he wouldn't have taken Langford ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 I pointed out Mize is under control for two more years. I didn't suggest they trade him or who they trade him for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 2 hours ago, kdog said: Until hitting development is fixed, we're wasting our time. I'm confident that this is taking up a majority of the player development work. Is it the process or the players (or both) that needed fixed/changed? I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 15 minutes ago, oblong said: but Harris should be able to trade him for a young middle of the order SS with great defense. Are you talking about Casey Mize? No one will trade anything of value for him. It doesn't matter where he was drafted. The guy doesn't have a swing and miss pitch. His ceiling was last game where he had a bunch of weak contact. He is going to get hammered tonight by a poor Nationals team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 22 minutes ago, oblong said: but Harris should be able to trade him for a young middle of the order SS with great defense. I think you forgot to use the sarcasm font. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 5 minutes ago, casimir said: I think you forgot to use the sarcasm font. 9 minutes ago, tiger2022 said: Are you talking about Casey Mize? No one will trade anything of value for him. It doesn't matter where he was drafted. The guy doesn't have a swing and miss pitch. His ceiling was last game where he had a bunch of weak contact. He is going to get hammered tonight by a poor Nationals team. People here think Harris shoud figure out a way to trade our crap for good players though.... I'm just following along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 4 hours ago, Tiger337 said: I think the season is going as expected overall and I am encouraged by apparent player development improvements throughout the organization. The difference between you and me is that I don't have undying faith in Harris to turn the franchise into a winner. I don't know that he won't either. Is it undying faith you think I have? Have I not articulate my thoughts about him and his tenure precisely enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 3 hours ago, tiger2022 said: I just have this feeling that Flaherty is gone by the all star break and Skubal is a Yankee or Dodger at next year's trade deadline. I think Harris believes this group of players, led by Mize and Torkelson, have proven to be busts and it's another lost 3 or 4 years. Skubal will be gone. There are a lot of people advocating for Skubal to be traded so we can get something anything for him before he inevitably leaves on the Boras Express. Are you one of them? I myself am not close to there yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said: He had a chance to sell last year and couldn't get an ERod deal done. I think Harris did everything he had to do to make that deal happen and Eduardo pulled the rug out from under it. The Dodgers basically confirmed as much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 49 minutes ago, Tigermojo said: I pointed out Mize is under control for two more years. I didn't suggest they trade him or who they trade him for. At the rate he's going, Harris won't offer him arbitration, making him a free agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 14 minutes ago, chasfh said: I think Harris did everything he had to do to make that deal happen and Eduardo pulled the rug out from under it. The Dodgers basically confirmed as much. ERod wanted money to waive his no trade clause. It was way too easy for Harris to blame ERod and not accept the blame. But yeah, it's not the job of the GM to work out a trade. It's all the greedy players fault. 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 11 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: At the rate he's going, Harris won't offer him arbitration, making him a free agent. They have a $3.1 million option on him for next year. Seems reasonable if he's healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 6 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: ERod wanted money to waive his no trade clause. It was way too easy for Harris to blame ERod and not accept the blame. But yeah, it's not the job of the GM to work out a trade. It's all the greedy players fault. 🤔 I agree that Harris had to accept responsibility for the trade not happening, and I remember him standing up and doing so at the time. I’m just not clear on what Harris did or did not do, irrespective of anything Eduardo did, that cost the deal? Was everybody totally in for the deal and at the last second Harris botched it all on his own? Is that your understanding of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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